So what would you do?

[PhantomPH]

Well, I lurked here for a while and read a LOT of the forums and threads. I was attracted to this place as I am a massive TVR fan and hope to be in a position to 'pop my TVR cherry' on a T350 in the next year or so.

But now I am not so sure. Affording the car is one thing, but I have reaed thread after thread after thread and I am pretty damn sure there is no way I could live with it or afford to run it.

You see, it seems from my readings that all TVRs break on every journey. It costs thousands to repair a windscreen wiper and it needs to be rebuilt from the ground up at the 1000 mile service.

Joking aside, I really am convinced I cannot afford to own a TVR - which is very upsetting as the looks, sound, interior, etc, just make me want to die right then and there, to preserve the moments forever.

So why am I posting this thread? I have read moan after moan after moan about TVR quality and reliability. I 100% agree that spending £30, 40, 50, 60 THOUSAND pounds, should provide you with a car that not only is as aesthetically pleasing as a TVR, but as reliable as a Porsche.

So my question is this - what would you do to improve quality and reliability of TVRs?

Lets imagine that NS rings you up and with an accent not un-like a Bond villain says, "I want to pay you MOUNTAINS of cash - just make my cars better". What do you do? What do you change? What do you introduce at the factory?

(Think of this thread in the same way as if you were suddenly manager of your favorite football team)

P~

[UpTheIron]

PhantomPH said:

I 100% agree that spending £30, 40, 50, 60 THOUSAND pounds, should provide you with a car that not only is as aesthetically pleasing as a TVR, but as reliable as a Porsche.

I know this isn't what you asked, but why should a TVR be "as reliable as a Porsche"? I am sure we would all like it to be, but lets compare a Tamora to a Boxster.

The Tamora is cheaper to buy, but is a significantly better performer. The Tamora sells in the hundreds (if that) and is handbuilt. Porsche sells tens of thousands of Boxsters.

So something has to give, and inevitably the quality of some parts and the build suffers as a result of achieving the price point.

[PhantomPH]

Lets avoid this becoming a 'TVRs vs anything' thread, but I will say that when I spend money, I don't care what its on - I want a quality product for my money. Imagine if you bought a TV for £200 which had a great design and looked fantastic...and when it worked it was fabulous...but it regularly switched itself off, the buttons fell of the front, etc etc - I would not accept that and I am pretty sure nobody here would. This is not about comparing products - its about spending a tonne of money and expecting a quality product in return. How many people do you REALLY think would say, "No, I am quite happy that my TVR is un-reliable...I would not change a thing!"??? Only the ones who are into self-harm, I bet you!

Anyway, I hope this thread does not run into 'one of those' - its just meant to be a bit of fun.

p~

[chris watton]

PhantomPH said:

Lets avoid this becoming a 'TVRs vs anything' thread, but I will say that when I spend money, I don't care what its on - I want a quality product for my money. Imagine if you bought a TV for £200 which had a great design and looked fantastic...and when it worked it was fabulous...but it regularly switched itself off, the buttons fell of the front, etc etc - I would not accept that and I am pretty sure nobody here would. This is not about comparing products - its about spending a tonne of money and expecting a quality product in return. fun. p~

Unfortunately, we already live in an economy thats exactly like that, we thought we were buying the 'best' when we spent thousands on a large Sony Wega TV, we're on our third since we bought it a year and a half ago, the first one did keep switching itself off all the time, the second replacement TV last 2 weeks before it literally went bang and died, now on our third!
Same goes for our Sky+ box, on our third, the hard drives died on the first two!
These days, it seems nothing is built to last and they seemingly have a 'expirey date'! Just because you pay top wack is no guarentee of it lasting the course, everything is built to a price, we all want cheaper goods, but we're paying the price regarding quality and lastability. Same goes for cars, do you honestly think all that cheap electronical wizzardry is going to be working in say, a Citroen in 4 years time?

At the same time, we bought a cheap TV and DVD player for the bedroom and they've both been faultless!
Don't be fooled by marque/manufacturer, every one has its fair share of duds!

[PhantomPH]

I am very impressed at how quickly this forum goes off-topic! I am not kidding, the other forum I spend time at (11,000 posts of absolute rubbish from me!) normally takes about 4 posts to go off.

We have had Sky+ for a month and a half and we are on to our 2nd box already. Does yours also seem to drop sound (very briefly - like one word is lost in a sentence) on playback, but if you rewind it and play the same secdion, the sound is fine?

Anyway, back to the thread in hand - I think I would review all processes, from absolute start to finish. I think (and I may get hated for this) I might have to offset costs of bringing in more automation to replace hand-done tasks. That way 'failures' should become more consistent and therefore easier to pin down to a production process or stage. I think I would also be tempted to review all materials used in the construction - the 'disposable' materials - glues, screws, clips etc, not the body panels or leathers etc - in order to see if 'regular' problems can be avoioded by a replacing smaller cheaper things with better quality materials from the outset.

Thats just my first thoughts....

[PhantomPH]

los angeles said:

Phantom - any chance you might post a little more information on your profile before anyone engages you in lengthy debate? It's a bit like answering a ... ghost.

Of course! Althought I quite lilke being a ghost. I will sort my profile soon, but if you are interested, I am a 30 year old Geordie Web Developer with a wife, 2 kids and mortgage. hence the 'need a TVR cos I am 30+ now', feeling

[wizzpig]

"Right listen up everyone, i'm going to be running things around here from now on & i'm gonna make one or two small changes..... Ok, you lot..... Yes you, the QA/QC guys... your all fired. Cheerio.

Now, you chaps at the back... behind the guy with the pink shirt.... your the design gurus yes?

yes

Ok great. Your fired too. And you with the shirt... you look shifty. Your fired too. Now, who's in charge on engines?

er... that would be me

Your.... not fired. But throw away those silly 6 pots and design me the next generation AJP V8. I want 5.5 & 6 litres please, minimum. 475 & 550 horse power. Minimum. Are you getting this?

yes sir

Good good. Someone get me a coffee and a donut. And get me Chris Bangle on the phone. Wait a minute, you, engine guy, what's your name?

mutters something

Don't throw those 6 pots away, I've just had a great idea.... make the speed 12 a production reality. 8.0 litres. 900hp. 850 kilos tops. Bugatti Veyron my arse.

gasps all round

So, does anybody know if they kept the moulds for the Cerbera?

eerrrmmm....

I hope so coz we're gonna be needing them. Right, who's in charge of names?

*all point to small geeky looking chap at the front*

You are also not fired. In fact, you get a pay rise. Keep up the good work - more badass names with attitude please.
Now I need to know who's in charge of catering....

All point to door where fat bloke with pink shirt just left

Ah, right. Ok. Well anyway, I want more vending machines with Beef & Onion flavour monster munch and spicy nik naks and frazzles and donuts,[HommerSimpson] Hmmmmmmmm , donuts [/HommerSimpson] and Um Bongo.

petite woman hands phone over saying "Chris Bangle for you sir"

Chris..... Yeah good thanks..... Your fired.

petite woman whispers in ear....

I know he doesn't work for us, but he still needs firing. And where's my bloody coffee!?"

[PhantomPH]

wizzpig said:

petite woman hands phone over saying "Chris Bangle for you sir" Chris..... Yeah good thanks..... Your fired. petite woman whispers in ear.... I know he doesn't work for us, but he still needs firing. And where's my bloody coffee!?"

LOL

[chris watton]

I didn't mean to go off topic, I just wanted to use an analogy of whats wrong with most things in this day and age, and that includes both Porsches and TVRs, or any other manufacturer for that matter.

Yes, Sky+ isn't all its cracked up to be, it freezes sometimes, and on playback, the lip sinc is all out too!!! lol

[targarama]

I think we would all like to have Smolenski or whoever makes things happen at the factory actually do a little 'Voice of the Customer' (oh oh, Six Sigma alert). However, many people have tried this and as many have reported back on their frustration on this very forum. It's like banging your head on a brick wall.

If you're not sure you can afford to run a T350 then don't get one, you'll only regret it. It sounds like you're looking into purchasing with your eyes open which is good! Of course if you wait a year or two the cars will be cheaper and you can put £5k in your kids 'university account' in case it goes pop

All I can say is that in 10 years time cars like these will be illegal, outlawed, restricted, have to have lots of ESP/airbag type extras. My thinking is that we need to enjoy them now, while we can.

IMO I'm 10 years too young for a Porsche, and 20 for an Aston (37 now btw). Nothing wrong with Porsches, they're probably the best blend of sports and daily driveability. But some people want more. The manufacturers know this - hence the 968 CS, M3 CSL, 911 RS. Maybe there will be a Cayman RS (or whatever) in the near future to entice TVR/Noble type owners.

[groucho]

wizzpig said:

"Right listen up everyone, i'm going to be running things around here from now on & i'm gonna make one or two small changes..... Ok, you lot..... Yes you, the QA/QC guys... your all fired. Cheerio. Now, you chaps at the back... behind the guy with the pink shirt.... your the design gurus yes? yes Ok great. Your fired too. And you with the shirt... you look shifty. Your fired too. Now, who's in charge on engines? er... that would be me Your.... not fired. But throw away those silly 6 pots and design me the next generation AJP V8. I want 5.5 & 6 litres please, minimum. 475 & 550 horse power. Minimum. Are you getting this? yes sir Good good. Someone get me a coffee and a donut. And get me Chris Bangle on the phone. Wait a minute, you, engine guy, what's your name? mutters something Don't throw those 6 pots away, I've just had a great idea.... make the speed 12 a production reality. 8.0 litres. 900hp. 850 kilos tops. Bugatti Veyron my arse. gasps all round So, does anybody know if they kept the moulds for the Cerbera? eerrrmmm.... I hope so coz we're gonna be needing them. Right, who's in charge of names? *all point to small geeky looking chap at the front* You are also not fired. In fact, you get a pay rise. Keep up the good work - more badass names with attitude please. Now I need to know who's in charge of catering.... All point to door where fat bloke with pink shirt just left Ah, right. Ok. Well anyway, I want more vending machines with Beef & Onion flavour monster munch and spicy nik naks and frazzles and donuts,[HommerSimpson] Hmmmmmmmm , donuts [/HommerSimpson] and Um Bongo. petite woman hands phone over saying "Chris Bangle for you sir" Chris..... Yeah good thanks..... Your fired. petite woman whispers in ear.... I know he doesn't work for us, but he still needs firing. And where's my bloody coffee!?"

Great post. The salesman at a TVR garage told me that TVR have moved away fron the V8s because of weight. I'm not sure if I buy this as a Griff is about the same weight as a Sagaris, if anything a little lighter.

Yes, they got to sort out the QC at TVR. I think anybody would pay an extra 5k for a car that you know is going to be bullet proof.

[PhantomPH]

targarama said:

If you're not sure you can afford to run a T350 then don't get one, you'll only regret it. It sounds like you're looking into purchasing with your eyes open which is good! Of course if you wait a year or two the cars will be cheaper and you can put £5k in your kids 'university account' in case it goes pop

I blame these kids for the fact that I am no driving one now. Oh, and the wife.

I think that with other cars, I will buy the one I have the money for - so if I had £30k to spend, I would get a £30k car...but with a TVR, I would be shopping at £25k and keeping the rest aside for the inevitable...or buy a £2k car to use when the TVR breaks and have £3k for repairs.

Anyway, back to the point at hand - is it quality control, or 'process' that needs the biggest review?

P~

>> Edited by PhantomPH on Sunday 10th July 14:59

[wizzpig]

groucho said:

wizzpig said: some stuff.... Great post. The salesman at a TVR garage told me that TVR have moved away fron the V8s because of weight. I'm not sure if I buy this as a Griff is about the same weight as a Sagaris, if anything a little lighter. Yes, they got to sort out the QC at TVR. I think anybody would pay an extra 5k for a car that you know is going to be bullet proof.

Thanks
Trying to cover for nervy and the guys while they're off galavanting round France. Doing double shifts and everything....

In all seriousness though, TVR claim to have layed all the QA/QC demons to rest with the Segaris. I guess time will tell on that front.

Retrospectively though there aint much they can do about existing models which will, I have no doubt, continue to be a source of all kinds of horror stories involving reliability and/or build quality.

IMO that's part of what makes 'em so appealing. Kind of like an un-tamed beast. Ferrell and raw. Mine aint called 'Christine' for nothin'.

If, however, TVR have got it right with the Segaris, and I kinda hope they do, then I feel this can only be a good thing for them.

[stackmonkey]

PhantomPH said:

I think that with other cars, I will buy the one I have the money for - so if I had £30k to spend, I would get a £30k car...but with a TVR, I would be shopping at £25k and keeping the rest aside for the inevitable...or buy a £2k car to use when the TVR breaks and have £3k for repairs. Anyway, back to the point at hand - is it quality control, or 'process' that needs the biggest review? >> Edited by PhantomPH on Sunday 10th July 14:59

This part of owning a TVR, though.
Yes, we would all like them to be more reliable and better built.
On the other hand, We're willing to put up with less-than-perfect build because if you spend your £25k on a TVR instead of £30-35K on something else, you will get a car that will be much faster then the competition, rarer ('more exclusive' if you prefer), better looking IMHO, and far more of a driving experience than most others. PLus TVR drivers will wave at each when passing, even to complete strangers! That doesn't happen for many other marques.

TVR needs to sort basic machanicals first, the rest will follow.

[snorky]

I find it strange that the only parts that have failed on my Tiv are the ones made by Ford and Vauxhall....not much TVR can do about that, unless they make absolutely everything on the can ...not even Porsche do that !

[cymtriks]

reintroduce the Cerbera and Griffith.

Use the moulds as they are.

For an engine try the new Chrysler Hemi. The latest version of this pushrod, cross flow, twin spark unit makes 425bhp in 6.1 liter emissions ready form. The Hemi has a huge nostalgic presence in the states, much more so than any other small block. Good if you want to get into that market. Don't mess about with it, just put it straight in.

As for the six. Try a Melling-MCD/TVR-craft upgrade. Sort this issue out with Melling, Ravenscroft and anyone else with real knowledge of the engine without letting politics get in the way. It must be sorted. No more power increases until the thing works properly. If the oil ways need enlarging do it. If the rev limit needs to be a little lower do it. If the oil level is hard to read then fix the dipstick so it's easy to read. If revving from cold is a problem fit a timer on the rev limiter so that the engine is given a few minutes at reduced performance before the thing can be revved.

The S6 is actually a better design for a backbone chassis. Cranking the top tubes of the frame around the back of the engine block has a big effect on chassis stiffness. I do this stuff for a living, I'm not making that up. If the S6 can be made to work properly then it is the way to go.

[PhantomPH]

Good suggestions. :thumbsup:

[snorky]

MX5...I thought you liked sports cars......

the worm is in the water...waiting for a bite

[wizzpig]

Over nine hours and not so much as a nibble eh snorky. Try a bit of sweetcorn on there as well