TVR reputation damage

[baconsarney]

Just putting this out there, I have no real hard and fast view on this (at the moment). We’ve kept the ‘under wraps’ thread going for a few years now, kinda been same old stuff regularly repeated... then today PH start a new thread in news about the £2m loan thing, and off we go again with lots of folk we’ve never seen on the under wraps thread all with an opinion many of them very negative. Well, we’re all entitled to our opinions

But I can’t help wondering, in many circles the old reliability stigma has never left TVR, to a degree (particularly amongst those who’ve never owned one) understandably so.

So, I can’t help thinking that what appears to be farcical management of a new TVR venture will just add fire to the flames of an already poor reputation... hopefully this is only a PH thing and doesn’t exist in the real world. Whatever that is now...

[Ri Orus2]

TVR owner here, don't contribute here much really but pop back for news and technical bits.

Regarding Newco:

I suppose we're all fond of TVR on this forum and pistonheads, given its history. Personally I'd really love to see TVR make a good go of it but I honestly can't understand the silence. You make a good point of whatever the real world is now and if it's all social media, influencers and fake news, then surely TVR have got to join them rather than beat them.

The silence isn't mysterious and with the microscopic attention span of the whole world then I don't understand why TVR aren't shouting about it, and ramming it down our throats on every platform. Traditional or digital. Personally, I would've loved to have seen videos of development on youtube and regular news pieces and I'm not even particularly social media savvy.

The silence, unfortunately, stinks of failure. I wish I could look at it differently but even with the rose tinted glasses, I can't see it anymore.


Regarding the reliability stigma:

Each to their own I guess. I'd say its as reliable as you'd expect a 20 year old hand built car, from blackpool, to be.

[Ri Orus2]

and I'd absolutely love to be proved wrong.

[TheGinger1]

Surely the whole delay is in the development of the facility to make the cars, not the design and development of the cars themselves. You can't fill instagram and news sites with 2 years worth of 'we're about to start building a factory news', unfortunately.

Given there is one car made and there are videos of it being used, what more could they do?

How does it compare to Ineos putting the Grenadier into production? We've heard about it for ages now, seen some videos and photo's etc, but now all quiet why the get on and build it.

I guess it is all down to history and heritage.

[N7GTX]

Well, the new thread in General Gassing (I rarely go there) seems to prove a point. Many of those posting on there really do not know much if anything about Newco and what's been happening. We've covered it to death but it sort of proves just how incompetent the new management are with their desire to keep everything under wraps. It reveals that some of those in Gassing think the new car will cost £50k (6 years on).
I don't know if it is just ignorance by the current board that marketing does actually help a business succeed or if it is leaning more to arrogance. Looking at the CVs of the board does not show a huge amount of retail experience, certainly not in the car world.

So let's say the car is finally produced in late 2022 or more likely 2023 and the depositers take their cars. A hand built car is going to have warranty issues and I for one would not be confident of a speedy fix based on the secrecy and appalling interaction with prospective owners and general petrolheads, some of whom could be converted to the brand. Let's not forget that TVR Parts has reverted to Racing Green. Surely the board must know that parts and spares are a lucrative money-spinner?

I loved my Cerb and then my Chim. Unfortunately, the way this new board is behaving has put me off the brand. Even if I was in a position to buy the new car I wouldn't.

But I'd absolutely have an unreliable Blackpool built car again.

[N7GTX]

TheGinger1 said:

Surely the whole delay is in the development of the facility to make the cars, not the design and development of the cars themselves. You can't fill instagram and news sites with 2 years worth of 'we're about to start building a factory news', unfortunately.

Given there is one car made and there are videos of it being used, what more could they do?

The delay is due to having no funds to build and develop the car hence the Irish Bonds Issue for £25m. The factory owner, the Welsh Govt who loaned TVR £2m - plus took a £500,000 investment (3% of the company value) - to be repaid this year BTW, have repeatedly stated the factory would not be refurbished until TVR could prove they had the funding in place. It is going ahead now as the Govt is buying or has bought the old factory unit but they have avoided stating that TVR will definitely be moving in - the comments have been vague.

I think you may get several answers to your question....

Edited by N7GTX on Tuesday 26th January 23:57

[baconsarney]

Had my ‘unreliable’ Blackpool built car 11 years now... it’s never left me stranded by the side of the road. The whole experience, noise, smell, feel.. every time I start it up still puts a knowing smile on my face... and the drive is still epic... and bum clenching

[KKson]

baconsarney said:

Had my ‘unreliable’ Blackpool built car 11 years now... it’s never left me stranded by the side of the road. The whole experience, noise, smell, feel.. every time I start it up still puts a knowing smile on my face... and the drive is still epic... and bum clenching

Got my first TVR, a 350i, 7 years today. It never let me down. Now moved on to a 390SE and more recently dragged a 450 SEAC out of a damp barn after 15 years in poor storage and recommissioned it. Both of the current Wedges are on the button and never fail to start. During this last 10 months of irregular use my daily diesel Audi ate it's serpentine belt, which then flailed the timing belt and snapped that, so £2831 later for a head rebuild. The wifes Mini Cooper S destroyed its clutch after 50,000 miles and needed a new turbo, so another £1800. The TVR's on the other hand continue to run. The SEAC in particular is now my essential shop/ essential trip to work car, and is the best bloody anti-Covid therapy there is, certainly for me........

Back to the point in question, personally I think Newco is becoming a laughing stock and they continue to appear to show how NOT to go about producing a new car. My circle of friends are not TVR owners but certainly they have come to the conclusion that Newco and it's handling of the situation is impacting negatively on the perception of TVR in general.

Edited by KKson on Tuesday 26th January 21:24

[Dollyman1850]

I mess around with my old plastic bodied cars dating from 67 to 2005. All have placcy bodies, Tubular spaceframe chassis with tubular double wishbone suspension.. they are used with Pride and identify with me along with the chaps in Blackpool who built them many of whom I am friends with... Not sure what this has to do with a Welsh built car following a different construction type, workforce and lineage... It takes more than sticking a badge on something to make a TVR in my eyes.. it finished for me in 2005 and the world has moved on.. I just carry on enjoying the proper classic TVR's

n.

[Classic Chim]

KKson said:

Got my first TVR, a 350i, 7 years today. It never let me down. Now moved on to a 390SE and more recently dragged a 450 SEAC out of a damp barn after 15 years in poor storage and recommissioned it. Both of the current Wedges are on the button and never fail to start. During this last 10 months of irregular use my daily diesel Audi ate it's serpentine belt, which then flailed the timing belt and snapped that, so £2831 later for a head rebuild. The wifes Mini Cooper S destroyed its clutch after 50,000 miles and needed a new turbo, so another £1800. The TVR's on the other hand continue to run. The SEAC in particular is now my essential shop/ essential trip to work car, and is the best bloody anti-Covid therapy there is, certainly for me........

Back to the point in question, personally I think Newco is becoming a laughing stock and they continue to appear to show how NOT to go about producing a new car. My circle of friends are not TVR owners but certainly they have come to the conclusion that Newco and it's handling of the situation is impacting negatively on the perception of TVR in general.

Edited by KKson on Tuesday 26th January 21:24

I’ve been thinking of selling my TVR but I still need reliable transport when this hell is allover so best not
I’m serious too.
The only time anything broke was when I broke it.
Most of what I replaced was unnecessary.
As for reputations i feel newco have had a detrimental effect after the initial excitement.
I think it’s probably turned some away from the REAL TVR cars too.
Older generation cars being so basic are now seen as very easy cars to own and attracting a certain type of hands on blokes who desire such a car and TVR are at the top of the tree in so many ways and probably the most accessible from a monetary perspective.
Jags and Lotus ain’t cheap to own or run for instance.
Newco is so far removed from this era wanting to attract people with 100k to spend on a toy car,,,,
It’s a joke really how these newco people have acted and people with 100k to waste / spend tend to know what’s going on in the world of new cars.
The moment the bloke talked about going racing based on the fact the was also asking for deposits suggested a man miles off reality and it’s been rather embarrassing ever since. All imho

I just wonder if the development drivers feedback crushed the man’s hopes it would be some world beater straight out the box and the car had been a one off ever since.
If they did not have a budget to even do some tests it’s a disgrace what’s been going on.

Edited by Classic Chim on Wednesday 27th January 07:31

[Zeb74]

I think that the bad reputation is much more present in the UK than on the continent.
But, this is mostly due to the fact that few people know the brand (except granturismo's players, and to be present in this game was a good marketing move).
In France, even in some old car's meeting, we have lots of question about TVR, "Is it a Triumph? Is it a MG?" (the RHD helps to identify the origin ).
And the few times people have laugh at my Chimaera, they were British.
So, the major issue for world wide targeting sales, is not to have a better reputation but to have a reputation.

[Classic Chim]

Zeb74 said:

I think that the bad reputation is much more present in the UK than on the continent.
But, this is mostly due to the fact that few people know the brand (except granturismo's players, and to be present in this game was a good marketing move).
In France, even in some old car's meeting, we have lots of question about TVR, "Is it a Triumph? Is it a MG?" (the RHD helps to identify the origin ).
And the few times people have laugh at my Chimaera, they were British.
So, the major issue for world wide targeting sales, is not to have a better reputation but to have a reputation.

In truth it’s probably similar here as most people do not recognise Tvr unless it’s the later T cars but you only see them once in a blue moon so anyone under 30 years of age have barely ever seen a Tvr on the road. Most only know through Jeremy Clarkson and the famous TopGear drag race from 20 + years ago.
So newco has sparked interest in Tvr but if it’s failure heaps even more negativity onto the brand.

[Ri Orus2]

TheGinger1 said:

Surely the whole delay is in the development of the facility to make the cars, not the design and development of the cars themselves. You can't fill instagram and news sites with 2 years worth of 'we're about to start building a factory news', unfortunately.

Given there is one car made and there are videos of it being used, what more could they do?

How does it compare to Ineos putting the Grenadier into production? We've heard about it for ages now, seen some videos and photo's etc, but now all quiet why the get on and build it.

I guess it is all down to history and heritage.

I don't know anything about the grenadier, so i can't draw the comparison unfortunately.

I guess TVR's target market is / was those that enjoy the history and heritage, have previously owned a TVR then and perhaps people looking for an affordable, raw sports car, true to the original TVR DNA.

I feel Newco missed the mark with the price point and maybe it's not realistic to expect a car like that for £50K, but even at a stretch, i'd say 60-70K would have been far more digestible. The other elephant in the room is that the nostalgic TVR DNA, without driver aid, ICE etc is all but gone or on it's way out in the next 5-10 years.

In that regard, I disagree with your point above. The car reveal was what, 3 years ago? To counter act the negativity, surely some form of marketing is important to keep it fresh in the mind. People forget quickly these days, or just don't have the patience. I'm not just talking about social media either, it could be anything that provides exposure; TVRCC Stuff, sprint articles, online media, physical events and gatherings (albeit a moot point in 2020 and now). Aside from 3 or 4 videos on youtube, a couple of blogs on the TVR website and a few sprint articles, I don't see much else.

Even if its absolute wishy washy garbage and people see through it, anything has got to be better than total silence. Put out a monthly update, rather than all this secret service sh*t. I mean, i'd want to see it and surely i'm not the only person that wants news, judging by the state of the 600+ page New Griff Thread

Edited by Ri Orus2 on Wednesday 27th January 10:06

Edited by Ri Orus2 on Wednesday 27th January 10:08

[glow worm]

TheGinger1 said:

How does it compare to Ineos putting the Grenadier into production? We've heard about it for ages now, seen some videos and photo's etc, but now all quiet why the get on and build it.

I guess it is all down to history and heritage.

Ineos factory in Wales dropped, production goes to France and Ineos team up with Hyundai to develop hydrogen engines ... not much of a comparison I feel.

[8Speed]

I think TVR's reputation for unreliability really came from the Peter Wheeler years when the cars were sent out from the factory in a barely completed/checked condition. Excellent & innovative designs but penny pinching with some materials led to many new cars suffering unnecessary faults.
Dealers often had to do a lot of remedial work when the cars arrived from the factory.
Nowadays most TVRs will have been cherished by enthusiastic owners & become at least as reliable as other makes of their era.
Unfortunately once a reputation is gained it tends to stick.

[FarmyardPants]

With newco and the promise of the new Griff, new technologies etc I did think it would go some way towards dispelling some of TVR’s (mostly unfounded) poor reputation, but the reality is that it has done nothing of the sort, unfortunately. Let’s hope they miraculously pull it off and bring cars to market.

[so called]

Regarding reliability, I normally head to Spain every year in my 2006 Tuscan.
I've had to have her shipped back to the UK once from France due to the engine management unit frying.
Otherwise, in 2016 the Alternator died, which can go on any make/model, and that was sorted by a workshop in France.

When I see someone come out with the TVR reliability line I normally post this;

Edited by so called on Tuesday 2nd February 14:44

[Classic Chim]

so called said:

Regarding reliability, I normally head to Spain every year in my 2006 Tuscan.
I've had to have her shipped back to the UK once from France due to the engine management unit frying.
Otherwise, in 20016 the Alternator died, which can go on any make/model, and that was sorted by a workshop in France.

When I see someone come out with the TVR reliability line I normally post this;

[so called]

Classic Chim said:

so called said:

Regarding reliability, I normally head to Spain every year in my 2006 Tuscan.
I've had to have her shipped back to the UK once from France due to the engine management unit frying.
Otherwise, in 20016 the Alternator died, which can go on any make/model, and that was sorted by a workshop in France.

When I see someone come out with the TVR reliability line I normally post this;

I was blocked in for a half hour.
The German Porsche owner sat in the cab of the recovery wagon wasn't best please when I told him his lights were still on.

[Classic Chim]

so called said:

I was blocked in for a half hour.
The German Porsche owner sat in the cab of the recovery wagon wasn't best please when I told him his lights were still on.

it’s a road reg maybe to have to don the lights whilst on a tow truck and what an ungreatfull so and so.