I knew i could get the tuscan to handle.......
Discussion
I have actually had my tuscan since about 2011 and have always been disappointed with the handling, despite various attempts to fix it.
Finally now i have this recipe which i am so pleased with, it now handles more like a modern car- i.e i can brake into or mid corner, make throttle adjustments mid corner, not be dragged all over the road, and generally feel a lot more confident in whats going to happen.
previously i had to keep throttle input steady through any corner, along with steering input as otherwise i could be met with a dose of oversteer or at least it felt that way.
Dont be mistaken, i still for several years had it in a way which was significantly better than standard, several tvr specialists drove it and said it drove fine/well. But i knew it could be better.
Heres what i have done and the reason i have put it in here is because i am sure it will apply to other tvrs as well.
Full poly bush kit from tvr parts.
gaz mono shocks 450 fr and 400 r
rota torque wheels with better offsets and lighter than the spiders
race tech drop links
new (standard) ball joints, track rods and ends.
pilot super sports 22 and 24 psi fr/rear which are better imo than the ad08 and federal 595rs i had before by some margin.
and the biggest ones:
sagaris steering arms - wishbones now sit level with track rods
and
taken the car to centre gravity. They actually raised the suspension from where it was, set castor to max, camber of approx 1.25 all round.
they set the geometry up literally perfectly, all set ups i have had in the past the cambers are always slightly different, this is bang on. You really do get what you pay for, they spent around 5 hours setting it up.
So i hope that helps some of you, the car is now way better than me instead of the other way round.
If and when i sell the car whoever gets it is going to get one hell of a sorted tuscan.
Finally now i have this recipe which i am so pleased with, it now handles more like a modern car- i.e i can brake into or mid corner, make throttle adjustments mid corner, not be dragged all over the road, and generally feel a lot more confident in whats going to happen.
previously i had to keep throttle input steady through any corner, along with steering input as otherwise i could be met with a dose of oversteer or at least it felt that way.
Dont be mistaken, i still for several years had it in a way which was significantly better than standard, several tvr specialists drove it and said it drove fine/well. But i knew it could be better.
Heres what i have done and the reason i have put it in here is because i am sure it will apply to other tvrs as well.
Full poly bush kit from tvr parts.
gaz mono shocks 450 fr and 400 r
rota torque wheels with better offsets and lighter than the spiders
race tech drop links
new (standard) ball joints, track rods and ends.
pilot super sports 22 and 24 psi fr/rear which are better imo than the ad08 and federal 595rs i had before by some margin.
and the biggest ones:
sagaris steering arms - wishbones now sit level with track rods
and
taken the car to centre gravity. They actually raised the suspension from where it was, set castor to max, camber of approx 1.25 all round.
they set the geometry up literally perfectly, all set ups i have had in the past the cambers are always slightly different, this is bang on. You really do get what you pay for, they spent around 5 hours setting it up.
So i hope that helps some of you, the car is now way better than me instead of the other way round.
If and when i sell the car whoever gets it is going to get one hell of a sorted tuscan.
TVRMs said:
By full castor, do you mean you’ve put both spacers one side of the top ball joint. I would suggest thats too much . Try 1.5 spacers one side, .5 the other.
You’ll struggle to improve beyond that.
It is both spacers one side. there was also an issue which myself and a couple of tvr specialists didn't spot in that where i had fitted the poly bushes on the drag link arms the fat side of the bush was the wrong way round so it only had 2degrees of castor. Now it has 4.5 degrees.You’ll struggle to improve beyond that.
the way it drives now im inclined to never touch it again
Andy_mr2sc said:
That's great to have some positive feedback on the arms Jasper. A couple of specialists have praised them too 
Not only are they really well made they also look good too! Honestly i can not believe how good this car is now. It devours B roads with ease! There is still some bump steer but then my cayenne v8d has as well down the same roads at 'higher' speeds. It is minimal and does not throw you about at all.
Nice work. What year is your car? The slightly later cars, (Tuscan S, or mid ‘01 on) had different uprights and the steering racks were also raised with spacers. This improved the front end geometry and consequent handling over the early cars which were a bit of a mess. Does your car have any of those parts fitted?
dvs_dave said:
Nice work. What year is your car? The slightly later cars, (Tuscan S, or mid ‘01 on) had different uprights and the steering racks were also raised with spacers. This improved the front end geometry and consequent handling over the early cars which were a bit of a mess. Does your car have any of those parts fitted?
No, this is a 2001 car so has the earlier uprights and rack.While doing the work i almost bought the later uprights and wishbones until i realised id need the later rack as well which would have cost much more to do. I did previously have 10mm of rack spacers fitted (which did help previously).
The rack spacers have now been removed and the wishbones sit perfectly with the new sag arms from andy.
I do find it odd why safaris style arms were never used, its a pretty basic idea. Just lower the track rods so they aren't at such an extreme angle. But then i suppose theres loads of odd things on a tvr
m3jappa said:
dvs_dave said:
Nice work. What year is your car? The slightly later cars, (Tuscan S, or mid ‘01 on) had different uprights and the steering racks were also raised with spacers. This improved the front end geometry and consequent handling over the early cars which were a bit of a mess. Does your car have any of those parts fitted?
No, this is a 2001 car so has the earlier uprights and rack.While doing the work i almost bought the later uprights and wishbones until i realised id need the later rack as well which would have cost much more to do. I did previously have 10mm of rack spacers fitted (which did help previously).
The rack spacers have now been removed and the wishbones sit perfectly with the new sag arms from andy.
I do find it odd why safaris style arms were never used, its a pretty basic idea. Just lower the track rods so they aren't at such an extreme angle. But then i suppose theres loads of odd things on a tvr
m3jappa said:
dvs_dave said:
Nice work. What year is your car? The slightly later cars, (Tuscan S, or mid ‘01 on) had different uprights and the steering racks were also raised with spacers. This improved the front end geometry and consequent handling over the early cars which were a bit of a mess. Does your car have any of those parts fitted?
No, this is a 2001 car so has the earlier uprights and rack.While doing the work i almost bought the later uprights and wishbones until i realised id need the later rack as well which would have cost much more to do. I did previously have 10mm of rack spacers fitted (which did help previously).
The rack spacers have now been removed and the wishbones sit perfectly with the new sag arms from andy.
I do find it odd why safaris style arms were never used, its a pretty basic idea. Just lower the track rods so they aren't at such an extreme angle. But then i suppose theres loads of odd things on a tvr
Cars after then handle much much better. For example my Tuscan S with just Nitrons and spacers is not at all scary or twitchy. I can happily drive it down a bumpy B-road at pace with just one hand on the wheel and it doesn't at all feel like its trying to throw itself into the nearest ditch. Its also stable on the brakes and at very high speeds 160mph+.
Anyway the reason they created the offset steering arms for the Sagaris only is not because they suddenly had a brainwave but forgot to apply the same mod to the other T-cars it shares its chassis and suspension with. It’s because the Sagaris has slightly differently positioned suspension pickup points. They’re higher up and further out than on the other T-cars. This is what gave the Sagaris it’s wider track and better roll-center/c-of-g relationship. Everything else is the same though, wishbones, uprights etc. This was a general modification to all the T-car chassis as the intention was for all cars to have the same chassis, then the appropriate suspension pickup point holes would be chosen depending on which model it was going under.
Now, as the Sagaris suspension pickup points were raised up and out in relation to the rack (which didn’t move, but was lengthened to account for the wider track), they created the Sagaris only offset steering arms to allow for that geometry change. So the Sagaris’s relative rack/track-rod geometry in relation to the wishbones is not actually any different to that on the other T-cars.
Hence why I’m skeptical that Sagaris steering arms will make any notable “bump-steer” improvement to a later non-Sagaris T-car. I’ve not ever seen any actual bump steer measurements being taken either before or after Sagaris steering arms have been fitted to a Tuscan. Only ever anecdotal evidence that it improves things, but then it’s only been done in conjunction with a bunch of other suspension modifications. So it’s not possible to determine the specific benefit of this particular modification. Not even the Mk2 or very rare Mk3 Tuscans had them fitted. If this steering arm change was an easy win magic bullet, my opinion is they would almost certainly have been installed on the later cars. Why wouldn’t they?
The topic of many a post by a Tuscan owner. I have a Tuscan that is nicer to drive than my Sag. Maybe I am scared of wrecking the Sag but not the replaceable Tuscan? I forget what I have done but if you add caster the reactions to bumps and tracks in the road are dulled, as is the turn in that I love.
Why do Tam owners and 350 owners, there are a few now who have driven all the T cars, claim they are better handling than the Tuskies. We come back to off set/tyre size and resultant scrub angle IMHO as the main influence.
Glad the OP has it sorted, shame the summer has deserted us. Shame I am so 'effin' busy I have only been out three times to test the tarmac is still on the B roads.
J
Why do Tam owners and 350 owners, there are a few now who have driven all the T cars, claim they are better handling than the Tuskies. We come back to off set/tyre size and resultant scrub angle IMHO as the main influence.
Glad the OP has it sorted, shame the summer has deserted us. Shame I am so 'effin' busy I have only been out three times to test the tarmac is still on the B roads.
J
All valid points, i agree. And i also agree that i have done a load of other stuff.
The biggest improvement was the day at centre gravity, i think the combination of putting ride heights where they should be along with the cambers has made a big difference.
Anyway, very very pleased with it now, i have always hustled down b roads but now i can hustle faster
I have always wondered as well why there hasn't been a mod to change the suspension pick up points on all t cars to match the sag.
Surely the chassis is the same? it would be a case of removing and remounting where the suspension joins, then the different rack etc. you would only need 1 sag to measure off and away you go. Or am i over simplifying it? Sounds straightforward enough to me.
The biggest improvement was the day at centre gravity, i think the combination of putting ride heights where they should be along with the cambers has made a big difference.
Anyway, very very pleased with it now, i have always hustled down b roads but now i can hustle faster
I have always wondered as well why there hasn't been a mod to change the suspension pick up points on all t cars to match the sag.
Surely the chassis is the same? it would be a case of removing and remounting where the suspension joins, then the different rack etc. you would only need 1 sag to measure off and away you go. Or am i over simplifying it? Sounds straightforward enough to me.
The sag arms would be too much for a later car and give a fair bit of bump toe out. My Mk1 needed about 8mm of rack spacing to get the steering correct after swapping to the later setup.
Looking at pictures of the last chassis, that had both sag and T car mountings drilled, the sag wishbones are c.20mm up and out. I assume the rack bar was extended to match.
Looking at pictures of the last chassis, that had both sag and T car mountings drilled, the sag wishbones are c.20mm up and out. I assume the rack bar was extended to match.
You can see on the photo of the Sag chassis two sets of suspension pickup holes. The Sag uses the upper/outer set, and this is the reason why the Sag specific offset steering arms were created. The rack height wasn’t raised an equal amount, so the offset steering arms were created to accommodate the newly introduced difference between rack and pickup points.
Non Sagaris T-cars don’t even have these extended pickup lugs where the upper set of holes are located. So it’s not even possible to retrofit without significant chassis fabrication work. As mentioned, if TVR had continued, I think it was their intention to use the same chassis for all T-models, and just use the appropriate pickups depending on which model it was being used for. But if they did that, you couldn’t then just change to the Sagaris pickup points on a Tuscan as then the wheels would stick out from the arches, and there also may not be enough clearance in the arches to allow for the travel of the higher up mounted suspension arms.
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