Chassis Corrosion - What To Expect
Discussion
Hi everyone
I'm interested in buying a TVR this summer, probably a Chim, and rightly or wrongly, particularly looking at chassis condition.
A few I'm interested in seem to have had chassis replacements/refurbs around 5-7 years ago, and it would seem prudent to get something that has been sorted, but most are now showing corrosion.
Is a car with a sorted chassis (i.e full replacement/body off repair at a repuable garage) likely to neeed ongoing maintenance touching up? ie is this unavoidable, rather than indicative of poor maintenance?
Is this just a case of DIY rust removal and paint?
Does anyone have any pictures of their known good chassis, in a normal used state? Every picture seems to be of a brand new repaired chassis, or their old rusty chassis - there don't seem to be many of a good, but not pristine chassis!
Sellers obviously suggest it's just cosmetic/surface corrosion, which I wouldn't mind dealing with, but obviously it's in their interest to understate any issues. Given that these cars are relatively rare, I can't really compare in person, and I don't want to bombard every seller with emails asking for pictures,... even though I'm a genuine prospective buyer, I'm trying to be particular about colour, condition, model, engine etc.
I'm trying to go in with reasonable expectations of minor surface rust etc, but conscious of posts on here where what looks to be minor corrosion underneath is a major issue when the body is removed.
I'm interested in buying a TVR this summer, probably a Chim, and rightly or wrongly, particularly looking at chassis condition.
A few I'm interested in seem to have had chassis replacements/refurbs around 5-7 years ago, and it would seem prudent to get something that has been sorted, but most are now showing corrosion.
Is a car with a sorted chassis (i.e full replacement/body off repair at a repuable garage) likely to neeed ongoing maintenance touching up? ie is this unavoidable, rather than indicative of poor maintenance?
Is this just a case of DIY rust removal and paint?
Does anyone have any pictures of their known good chassis, in a normal used state? Every picture seems to be of a brand new repaired chassis, or their old rusty chassis - there don't seem to be many of a good, but not pristine chassis!
Sellers obviously suggest it's just cosmetic/surface corrosion, which I wouldn't mind dealing with, but obviously it's in their interest to understate any issues. Given that these cars are relatively rare, I can't really compare in person, and I don't want to bombard every seller with emails asking for pictures,... even though I'm a genuine prospective buyer, I'm trying to be particular about colour, condition, model, engine etc.
I'm trying to go in with reasonable expectations of minor surface rust etc, but conscious of posts on here where what looks to be minor corrosion underneath is a major issue when the body is removed.
The problem with the chassis is that with powder coated steel, if there are any signs of rust then it can be worse under what looks like good paint. If a chassis has been refurbed in the last 5 to 10 years then the chassis should not need another refurb for at least 10 years or even much longer. Modern marine epoxy paints are a very good (even better) alternative to powder coating.
Can't say about Chims but on the cerbera it's the top of the outrigger corners that rot out. Just to scare you, I kept what I thought what a good eye on mine, until the screwdriver went through.
After a full body off rebuild, I've done mine with POR15 two part epoxy that sets hard, it was then waxoiled which I cleaned of recently when getting the shocks rebuilt.
didn't look bad, then it was rewaxed with Dinitrol
After a full body off rebuild, I've done mine with POR15 two part epoxy that sets hard, it was then waxoiled which I cleaned of recently when getting the shocks rebuilt.
didn't look bad, then it was rewaxed with Dinitrol
Edited by Byker28i on Tuesday 9th June 08:31
Thanks for the replies. Byker28i - that's my concern.
Most are happy to share pics of the refurb process, so I've no doubt it's been done correctly, but of more concern is the state of play x years later. I want to go into this as prepared as possible and know what I'm dealing with... it's pointless me seeking a refurbed chassis if it needs redoing!
Obviously I want to look at the cars in person if I'm interested, but only after I've reviewed the pictures and assessed the situation.
Most are happy to share pics of the refurb process, so I've no doubt it's been done correctly, but of more concern is the state of play x years later. I want to go into this as prepared as possible and know what I'm dealing with... it's pointless me seeking a refurbed chassis if it needs redoing!
Obviously I want to look at the cars in person if I'm interested, but only after I've reviewed the pictures and assessed the situation.
Edited by jellybeard999 on Wednesday 23 September 15:10
It can be difficult to tell from photos. Obviously shiny new is one thing, and obviously loads of holes is another, but many cars will be half way in-between.
As I am sure you have read elsewhere, the problem is that any corrosion on top of the outrigger is impossible to see until it is too late.
Remember as well, that if you are trying to disguise something untoward then you will probably take a photo from a view that minimizes it. There are also stories around where people have filled the holes and painted over so, from a photo at least, it is difficult to really tell.
Biker 28's photos are good and typical of a Chim / Griffith as well. It seems to be the near side front outrigger that goes first / is worst in many cases, so when you view a car, that is a good place to start.
Chimeras and Griffiths are between 18 and 28 years old now. I would be suspicious of any car that has not had any chassis work, unless photographs show it is clearly in good condition. My Griff had its first advisory for chassis corrosion at less than ten years old. If restoration work is done properly, then coating material quality and surface preparation will likely be better than when the car was new. If, after restoration work, cars are then used mainly on sunny days and live in warm dry garages it would be expected that they will last much longer originally before chassis work is required.
Obviously, a car which has had a full "body off" with lots of supporting photos will be the best bet, but it is also the most expensive option for the Owner at the time, so it is understandable that many have found other options. Don't discard a car which hasn't had a full body off. Treat each one on a case by case basis. You can also ask for photos of when the work was carried out to see what was done and how.
Of the two pictures you posted, the top one clearly shows surface breakdown on the triangular plates. That would concern me. The bottom picture is of the outrigger, which looks better, although it is difficult to differentiate between dirt and rust in many photos.
What work has been done on this car? If it was a fully body off, it looks as though the coating has failed. If it was just the outriggers that were sorted 5-7 years ago, they may be better. Ask the seller if he can provide pictures of the fronts of the outriggers, which should be possible to do on each side with the wheels on full lock. If he can give it a quick wash (pressure wash or sponge down / remove the mud) first that will be of help.
As I am sure you have read elsewhere, the problem is that any corrosion on top of the outrigger is impossible to see until it is too late.
Remember as well, that if you are trying to disguise something untoward then you will probably take a photo from a view that minimizes it. There are also stories around where people have filled the holes and painted over so, from a photo at least, it is difficult to really tell.
Biker 28's photos are good and typical of a Chim / Griffith as well. It seems to be the near side front outrigger that goes first / is worst in many cases, so when you view a car, that is a good place to start.
Chimeras and Griffiths are between 18 and 28 years old now. I would be suspicious of any car that has not had any chassis work, unless photographs show it is clearly in good condition. My Griff had its first advisory for chassis corrosion at less than ten years old. If restoration work is done properly, then coating material quality and surface preparation will likely be better than when the car was new. If, after restoration work, cars are then used mainly on sunny days and live in warm dry garages it would be expected that they will last much longer originally before chassis work is required.
Obviously, a car which has had a full "body off" with lots of supporting photos will be the best bet, but it is also the most expensive option for the Owner at the time, so it is understandable that many have found other options. Don't discard a car which hasn't had a full body off. Treat each one on a case by case basis. You can also ask for photos of when the work was carried out to see what was done and how.
Of the two pictures you posted, the top one clearly shows surface breakdown on the triangular plates. That would concern me. The bottom picture is of the outrigger, which looks better, although it is difficult to differentiate between dirt and rust in many photos.
What work has been done on this car? If it was a fully body off, it looks as though the coating has failed. If it was just the outriggers that were sorted 5-7 years ago, they may be better. Ask the seller if he can provide pictures of the fronts of the outriggers, which should be possible to do on each side with the wheels on full lock. If he can give it a quick wash (pressure wash or sponge down / remove the mud) first that will be of help.
I had a body off full chassis refurb 3 years ago on my 1998 Cerbera. I knew the outriggers were shot but the condition of the main chassis rails in places were very concerning.
I had it powder coated white, didn't wax oil it because I wanted to keep an eye on the chassis condition. I checked it annually after that and it did need touching up in places.
Inspect the chassis very carefully of any car you look at and I would recommend checking the chassis on a yearly basis and rectify any rust found.
I had it powder coated white, didn't wax oil it because I wanted to keep an eye on the chassis condition. I checked it annually after that and it did need touching up in places.
Inspect the chassis very carefully of any car you look at and I would recommend checking the chassis on a yearly basis and rectify any rust found.
The Chimaeras you're viewing with a seven year old chassis restoration that are now showing corrosion were not restored properly, firstly you need to separate out the cars that have just had outriggers fitted with the body left on, this is not a chassis restoration. You need to treat any Chimaera that's just had a body on outrigger replacement job with suspicion, many have been executed poorly and with the body still on the car the rest of the chassis will have been left largely untreated.
A proper chassis restoration is where the body was completely removed, but even if the body was lifted you need to understand how it was protected, most plumb for powder coat which is why many of these so called restored TVRs are now displaying chassis corrosion just 7 years later. Basically the owner repeated the mistakes made by TVR, back in the day it was quite common for a 1997 white chassis Chimaera to be displaying serious chassis corrosion issues within five years of manufacture... or less!
On the other hand here's what my Chimaera silver/grey chassis looked like when the body was removed in January this year, this was the first time the body had been separated from it's chassis since the car was built by TVR way back in late November 1996 so you're looking at over 23 years of solid UK all season service here. Now look at any other make of car car that's 23 years old and see how well it's faired, from Aston Martin to VW you'll be finding rot for sure!
From the front:
From the back:
NS front outrigger corner:
OS front outrigger corner:
NS rear outrigger corner:
First pass with the pressure washer:
Proof of just how much better the zinc phosphate primed and painted silver/grey painted chassis' lasts when compared with the dreadful white powder coated finish TVR started applying very badly from February 1997. When I was hunting for a Chimaera back in early 2009 I saw some shocking chassis', I must have looked at 8 cars before I found the right one.
Back then I had no knowledge of the life expediency difference between the white powder coated and earlier silver/grey chassis', however I did know I wanted a Mk2 without a corroded chassis, but every one I inspected was rotten. This was all so disheartening I very nearly gave up on the idea of buying a Chimaera completely. My belief they can't all be as bad as the last 7 rotten Chimaeras I'd viewed kept me going, in May 2009 I viewed Chimaera number 8 and my search immediately took turn for the better, this early Mk2 face lift 4.0 HC built in November 1996 had 29,800 miles on the clock and had been Waxoiled from new.
Boy what a difference in chassis condition!
So I struck a deal with the very honest 3rd owner from new for £7,900.00 and my TVR adventure began, fast forward almost 11 years of enjoying the car properly and we take her cloths off to see how she's fared. I conclude the old girl has held up well over the last 23 years so with a set of new thicker wall seamless tube outriggers let in, two coats of Jotamastic 90 Aluminum 2k epoxy mastic paint, and a set of outrigger protectors... I see no reason why the chassis won't give a good 30 more years of service before the next body off inspection is due
People make a big play over Chimaera chassis corrosion and sure the white chassis cars and especially the 1997 to 1998 ones were shockers, but mine was a 96 so I tend to compare it with other 96 cars for corrosion, for example have a look at a 1996 Mazda MX5 of the same mileage and I guarantee you it'll be rotten as a carrot.
Read about my recently completed chassis restoration here.....
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Also read my comments about powder coat here.....
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
A proper chassis restoration is where the body was completely removed, but even if the body was lifted you need to understand how it was protected, most plumb for powder coat which is why many of these so called restored TVRs are now displaying chassis corrosion just 7 years later. Basically the owner repeated the mistakes made by TVR, back in the day it was quite common for a 1997 white chassis Chimaera to be displaying serious chassis corrosion issues within five years of manufacture... or less!
On the other hand here's what my Chimaera silver/grey chassis looked like when the body was removed in January this year, this was the first time the body had been separated from it's chassis since the car was built by TVR way back in late November 1996 so you're looking at over 23 years of solid UK all season service here. Now look at any other make of car car that's 23 years old and see how well it's faired, from Aston Martin to VW you'll be finding rot for sure!
From the front:
From the back:
NS front outrigger corner:
OS front outrigger corner:
NS rear outrigger corner:
First pass with the pressure washer:
Proof of just how much better the zinc phosphate primed and painted silver/grey painted chassis' lasts when compared with the dreadful white powder coated finish TVR started applying very badly from February 1997. When I was hunting for a Chimaera back in early 2009 I saw some shocking chassis', I must have looked at 8 cars before I found the right one.
Back then I had no knowledge of the life expediency difference between the white powder coated and earlier silver/grey chassis', however I did know I wanted a Mk2 without a corroded chassis, but every one I inspected was rotten. This was all so disheartening I very nearly gave up on the idea of buying a Chimaera completely. My belief they can't all be as bad as the last 7 rotten Chimaeras I'd viewed kept me going, in May 2009 I viewed Chimaera number 8 and my search immediately took turn for the better, this early Mk2 face lift 4.0 HC built in November 1996 had 29,800 miles on the clock and had been Waxoiled from new.
Boy what a difference in chassis condition!
So I struck a deal with the very honest 3rd owner from new for £7,900.00 and my TVR adventure began, fast forward almost 11 years of enjoying the car properly and we take her cloths off to see how she's fared. I conclude the old girl has held up well over the last 23 years so with a set of new thicker wall seamless tube outriggers let in, two coats of Jotamastic 90 Aluminum 2k epoxy mastic paint, and a set of outrigger protectors... I see no reason why the chassis won't give a good 30 more years of service before the next body off inspection is due
People make a big play over Chimaera chassis corrosion and sure the white chassis cars and especially the 1997 to 1998 ones were shockers, but mine was a 96 so I tend to compare it with other 96 cars for corrosion, for example have a look at a 1996 Mazda MX5 of the same mileage and I guarantee you it'll be rotten as a carrot.
Read about my recently completed chassis restoration here.....
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Also read my comments about powder coat here.....
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
BIG DUNC said:
Of the two pictures you posted, the top one clearly shows surface breakdown on the triangular plates. That would concern me. The bottom picture is of the outrigger, which looks better, although it is difficult to differentiate between dirt and rust in many photos.
What work has been done on this car? If it was a fully body off, it looks as though the coating has failed. If it was just the outriggers that were sorted 5-7 years ago, they may be better. Ask the seller if he can provide pictures of the fronts of the outriggers, which should be possible to do on each side with the wheels on full lock. If he can give it a quick wash (pressure wash or sponge down / remove the mud) first that will be of help.
In fairness to the seller, he has provided lots of photos of the car having work done and as it stands, so I don't think he's hiding anything. I just don't want to end up in the situation where a bit of rust treatment and painting turns into another full refurb.What work has been done on this car? If it was a fully body off, it looks as though the coating has failed. If it was just the outriggers that were sorted 5-7 years ago, they may be better. Ask the seller if he can provide pictures of the fronts of the outriggers, which should be possible to do on each side with the wheels on full lock. If he can give it a quick wash (pressure wash or sponge down / remove the mud) first that will be of help.
I know it's difficult to say from pictures, but is this worth going to view? And does this look like the sort of corrosion you'd see in a couple of years, that just needs some rust treatment/brushing and repainting, or is it heading towards needing major works in the near future?
ChimpOnGas said:
The Chimaeras you're viewing with a seven year old chassis restoration that are now showing corrosion were not restored properly, firstly you need to separate out the cars that have just had outriggers fitted with the body left on, this is not a chassis restoration. You need to treat any Chimaera that's just had a body on outrigger replacement job with suspicion, many have been executed poorly and with the body still on the car the rest of the chassis will have been left largely untreated.
A proper chassis restoration is where the body was completely removed, but even if the body was lifted you need to understand how it was protected, most plumb for powder coat which is why many of these so called restored TVRs are now displaying chassis corrosion just 7 years later. Basically the owner repeated the mistakes made by TVR, back in the day it was quite common for a 1997 white chassis Chimaera to be displaying serious chassis corrosion issues within five years of manufacture... or less!
Thanks for all the info, much appreciated. If I was to get the work done, I'd definitely take this on board. However, I'm not sure how realistic is to find a car with a restored chassis, which has used a wet coat system... most seem to be powdercoated from what I've read/seen.A proper chassis restoration is where the body was completely removed, but even if the body was lifted you need to understand how it was protected, most plumb for powder coat which is why many of these so called restored TVRs are now displaying chassis corrosion just 7 years later. Basically the owner repeated the mistakes made by TVR, back in the day it was quite common for a 1997 white chassis Chimaera to be displaying serious chassis corrosion issues within five years of manufacture... or less!
I am treating any car with suspicion... what I'm trying to establish is am I being too suspicious (I don't believe so!) and what does a good, used example really look like?
I need to be realistic, as I'm not looking to spend top dollar so can't expect a full concours example, but equally, I'm not scraping the barrel either, and believe I should get a good, well looked after example for my budget.
Edited by jellybeard999 on Wednesday 23 September 15:11
I would say that is definitely worth going to look at.
If you do buy it, set aside a weekend for wire brushing and then painting all the chassis bare metal you can get to.
The coating does appear to have broken down in places, but on the basis of a full body off having been carried out 5 to 7 years ago, I don't expect the outriggers to be rotten (obviously no guarantee as I haven't personally seen the car etc)
I take on board Dave / CoG comments. I work in the marine industry and the types of paint he is using are far better than any automotive paint I have come across.
The Jotunmastic he has used is good, but there are marine paints from other manufacturers which are just as good, and it is by no means the only product of its type.
Despite knowing this, when I did my body off I chose to go down the powder coat route. Basically because I wanted the car to be as original as possible. However, I made certain that the preparation was good and the people doing it had the right facilities and experienced staff. Part of the original problem was that TVR left bare chassis sitting outside in the rain before they went to be powder coated, by a firm who couldn't keep up with demand. That wasn't the best start. I gave my chassis a coating in wax, particularly the outriggers, before refitting the body, primarily as stone chip protection. When I was last under my car there was no evidence of damage to the powder coating or rust. It doesn't look new anymore as it get used, in all weather, so has been through puddles and things, but so far, no damage to the powder coat.
If you do buy it, set aside a weekend for wire brushing and then painting all the chassis bare metal you can get to.
The coating does appear to have broken down in places, but on the basis of a full body off having been carried out 5 to 7 years ago, I don't expect the outriggers to be rotten (obviously no guarantee as I haven't personally seen the car etc)
I take on board Dave / CoG comments. I work in the marine industry and the types of paint he is using are far better than any automotive paint I have come across.
The Jotunmastic he has used is good, but there are marine paints from other manufacturers which are just as good, and it is by no means the only product of its type.
Despite knowing this, when I did my body off I chose to go down the powder coat route. Basically because I wanted the car to be as original as possible. However, I made certain that the preparation was good and the people doing it had the right facilities and experienced staff. Part of the original problem was that TVR left bare chassis sitting outside in the rain before they went to be powder coated, by a firm who couldn't keep up with demand. That wasn't the best start. I gave my chassis a coating in wax, particularly the outriggers, before refitting the body, primarily as stone chip protection. When I was last under my car there was no evidence of damage to the powder coating or rust. It doesn't look new anymore as it get used, in all weather, so has been through puddles and things, but so far, no damage to the powder coat.
definitely worth a personal look and have it either jacked up or on a ramp. A cheap mini endoscope to connect to your phone is worth getting so you can look at the inside of the front and rear outrigger corners.
I refurbed my TVR S chassis over 5 years ago - new outriggers, blasted and coated with several layers of paint (smoothrite), last year I stripped it again and found absolutely no rust.
I would factor in a full chassis refurb on that Chim though.
I refurbed my TVR S chassis over 5 years ago - new outriggers, blasted and coated with several layers of paint (smoothrite), last year I stripped it again and found absolutely no rust.
I would factor in a full chassis refurb on that Chim though.
BIG DUNC said:
I would say that is definitely worth going to look at.
If you do buy it, set aside a weekend for wire brushing and then painting all the chassis bare metal you can get to.
That would be my plan... IF this example doesn't look shot and people more experienced than I suggest it's just normal wear and tear!If you do buy it, set aside a weekend for wire brushing and then painting all the chassis bare metal you can get to.
Wire brush the loose, apply some sort of rust treatment to remove the rest (bilt hamber gel or similar) and then coat with appropriate white paint.
I'll have a bit of a think, but I would like to see (at least in pictures) other examples to compare before jumping on the first example I see.
This is a 450 up for £14k and could do with a new roof shortly, though it doesn't look urgent. Chassis restoration in 2014 (apologies, I might have said 2012 earlier) and a top hat liner engine rebuild by TVR Power around the same time. Otherwise looks from the pictures to be in good condition body/interior wise. It's local, so I'm weighing up going to see this one, and would want a bit of negotiation on the price as other examples for a bit more that don't need work will probably cost the same or less.
I also have my eyes on..
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/... - Emailed, but no response. It's also at the other end of the country, but I'm prepared to travel if the pics look worth it.
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/... - Enquiry acknowledged, but no pictures/further details yet.
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/... - This looks a good example (again, would need more pics - tempted to contact him too). It's a bit more than I'd like to spend, but then it's a 500 and if it's in better condition to start with, might be worth the premium in the longer term.
I just don't want to get a reputation as a serial emailer / chassis picture fetishist!
magpies said:
I would factor in a full chassis refurb on that Chim though.
That's my concern... might as well just spend more in the first place if that's the case!Wire brush the loose, apply some sort of rust treatment to remove the rest (bilt hamber gel or similar) and then coat with appropriate white paint.
If it is powder coated there should be NO loose, if there is, then the coating has broken down and moisture will track between the coating and the steel - full stripdown recommended.
If the chassis is painted then cleaning off to bright metal and recoating is possible.
The golden rule in TVR circles is......
"What ever corrosion you can see on the outriggers from underneath, it will be at least twice as bad where you can't see it."
TVR chassis outriggers rot in the corners and on top of the perimeter tubes, sadly you'll never be able to check this without lifting the body.
Thems the facts!
The above photos show failing powder coat, its exactly what I've been talking about, I bet the chassis looked amazing when it was first done but to get to that state after just 7 years demonstrates why powder coating is a poor choice. To be honest there's a lot of work involved to lift the body and restore a TVR chassis so its a crime the restorer chose powder coat, he should have used an epoxy mastic two component wet paint system.
Leave your powder coating for office furniture folks and simply copy whats used in industrial marine environments, a TVR chassis in the UK lives in a harsh environment so why people persist with powder coat is beyond me. I guess it does look pretty when its first done, but personally I want my chassis to last not look pretty for the first three years then start rusting.
Each to their own I guess
"What ever corrosion you can see on the outriggers from underneath, it will be at least twice as bad where you can't see it."
TVR chassis outriggers rot in the corners and on top of the perimeter tubes, sadly you'll never be able to check this without lifting the body.
Thems the facts!
The above photos show failing powder coat, its exactly what I've been talking about, I bet the chassis looked amazing when it was first done but to get to that state after just 7 years demonstrates why powder coating is a poor choice. To be honest there's a lot of work involved to lift the body and restore a TVR chassis so its a crime the restorer chose powder coat, he should have used an epoxy mastic two component wet paint system.
Leave your powder coating for office furniture folks and simply copy whats used in industrial marine environments, a TVR chassis in the UK lives in a harsh environment so why people persist with powder coat is beyond me. I guess it does look pretty when its first done, but personally I want my chassis to last not look pretty for the first three years then start rusting.
Each to their own I guess
jellybeard999 said:
Thanks for the critical viewpoint...
Do either of you have pictures of a "properly" refurbished chassis a few years down the line then? So I can see what I'm hoping to see on a used example? Should I expect no rust whatsover?
Not without Googling which anyone can do, mine will be a 7 year old chassis restoration in errrr... 7 years, so I can't help until then. Keep in mind the first photos I shared were of my 23 year old TVR chassis that had had nothing more than Wayoil and Dinitrol all its life, if you ask me it did well and I was expecting far worse when the body came off in January this year.Do either of you have pictures of a "properly" refurbished chassis a few years down the line then? So I can see what I'm hoping to see on a used example? Should I expect no rust whatsover?
I was pleasantly surprised, yest there was rot in the outrigger corners but 95% of the chassis was absolutely fine, obviously once the body was off new outriggers were let in and better thicker wall seamless tube was used, the rest was de-rusted and with the far superior Jotamastic 90 Aluminum paint system was used to protect the whole thing. The way I see it if TVR's inferior efforts lasted 23 years I see no reason why my chassis restoration shouldn't last 30 years or more, quite honestly if its as rusty as those photos you shared after just 7 years I'd be very unhappy indeed, but the reality is that just isn't going to happen simply because we didn't use powder coat!
Hopefully Thomas Crawford (TJC46) will turn up on this post as he restored his chassis back in 2009/2010 using a very similar paint system applied to mine, obviously his chassis restoration is 10 years old now so it would be great if Thomas can share some recent photos
I'll admit now I followed what he did on PH some 10 years ago whith huge respect, indeed it was always my benchmark for what I would one day essentially copy on my car.How Thomas did it and the the 2k paint system he used was what I considered a proper chassis restoration that would last, so I'd also love to see how in looks all these years later..... I bet its still mint
Some of his later contributions here....
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
And here, sadly the post is so old the pictures have been lost
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Don’t have pictures now, but can take in a couple of days, of mine. 2 years and plenty of use since done. Zero corrosion. I can probably get you pictures in a similar time frame of another Griff which was powder coated 5 years ago. When I last saw that car it looked “new”.
I agree that a modern marine coating will be far better than a dodgy TVR power coat of 30 years ago. I don’t agree that a powder coat of now or five or ten years ago is the end of the world, but it is very much on a case by case example.
I agree that a modern marine coating will be far better than a dodgy TVR power coat of 30 years ago. I don’t agree that a powder coat of now or five or ten years ago is the end of the world, but it is very much on a case by case example.
Although they don’t look too bad in the pictures as others have said you don’t know what they look like on top.
The last thing you want to be doing when you buy a Tvr is crawling around the garage floor on your back grinding rust back and painting, it’s a hideous task and will slowly start to put you off the enjoyment of Tvr ownership.
The last thing you want to be doing when you buy a Tvr is crawling around the garage floor on your back grinding rust back and painting, it’s a hideous task and will slowly start to put you off the enjoyment of Tvr ownership.
Must admit if I had paid for the chassis job in the pics I'd not be a happy bunny and be thinking it needs doing again.
I've seen bills for over £8k for these jobs, I'd be gutted.
I viewed one of the cars you mention years ago, that's got a £8k bill for it, couldn't tell if it was a good job or not as it was covered in waxoyl, not the clear stuff either
Years ago, when this was all fields, people would say they'd cleaned their outriggers down and painted them and they were great, this is impossible as you can see from the pics it's the tops,gussets and in CoG case, the seatbelt anchors that rot and you can't get to them on the bodyside.
The guys extolling the virtues of a paint system are virtually 100% right but it's also fair to say powder coating now isn't as useless as TVR's piss poor efforts. However once it's been chipped/scratched unless you catch it straight away you're knackered.
Obviously a full body off is the best way to go but it isn't going to be cheap as ever pay your money and take your choice.
Good luck with your search and don't be put off by asking loads of questions or asking for pics, my own opinion is if someone can't be bothered to answer questions or send pics then the car isn't for me. It's not as if they need to take new pics for everyone who asks and any information you need should be at hand for the 'good' owner.
I've seen bills for over £8k for these jobs, I'd be gutted.
I viewed one of the cars you mention years ago, that's got a £8k bill for it, couldn't tell if it was a good job or not as it was covered in waxoyl, not the clear stuff either
Years ago, when this was all fields, people would say they'd cleaned their outriggers down and painted them and they were great, this is impossible as you can see from the pics it's the tops,gussets and in CoG case, the seatbelt anchors that rot and you can't get to them on the bodyside.
The guys extolling the virtues of a paint system are virtually 100% right but it's also fair to say powder coating now isn't as useless as TVR's piss poor efforts. However once it's been chipped/scratched unless you catch it straight away you're knackered.
Obviously a full body off is the best way to go but it isn't going to be cheap as ever pay your money and take your choice.
Good luck with your search and don't be put off by asking loads of questions or asking for pics, my own opinion is if someone can't be bothered to answer questions or send pics then the car isn't for me. It's not as if they need to take new pics for everyone who asks and any information you need should be at hand for the 'good' owner.
The other variable is how the car has been used since it's chassis was restored, lets be honest here most TVRs are weekend toys so lead a very cosseted life, in which case I can easily see why a powder coat job might look like new after five years. Conversely I use my TVR in all conditions, so I chose a coating that is proven in extreme environments.
There are lots of epoxy mastic case studies online but these are typically directed at the industrial marine sector because they demand a coating that can perform in super challenging marine conditions. One case study example demonstrating how epoxy mastic paints perform in a salt laded corrosion promoting marine environment can be found here....
https://www.boatingbusiness.com/news101/boatbuildi...
Back in 2003 the ancient steel hull of the 1936 built Queen Mary was protected with Jotamastic 87 Aluminium epoxy mastic, the Jotamastic 90 Aluminium used on my chassis being same company's new improved formula of the 87. At the time the paint was applied it was coating 67 year old steel, for the next 14 years the ship sat stationary in salt water in Long Beach California serving as a hotel, fast forward to 2017 and a report on the ship's condition was issued which noted the hull was only just starting to corrode in small areas.
Not surprising really as such old steel sat without moving while submerged in brine is the absolute perfect recipe for rapid and aggressive corrosion, the 14 years the ship sat in this environment is likely equal to what a car would see over 50 years of all year round road use.
In the same heavy saline marine environment powder coat would have probably lasted 3 weeks at best
There are lots of epoxy mastic case studies online but these are typically directed at the industrial marine sector because they demand a coating that can perform in super challenging marine conditions. One case study example demonstrating how epoxy mastic paints perform in a salt laded corrosion promoting marine environment can be found here....
https://www.boatingbusiness.com/news101/boatbuildi...
Back in 2003 the ancient steel hull of the 1936 built Queen Mary was protected with Jotamastic 87 Aluminium epoxy mastic, the Jotamastic 90 Aluminium used on my chassis being same company's new improved formula of the 87. At the time the paint was applied it was coating 67 year old steel, for the next 14 years the ship sat stationary in salt water in Long Beach California serving as a hotel, fast forward to 2017 and a report on the ship's condition was issued which noted the hull was only just starting to corrode in small areas.
Not surprising really as such old steel sat without moving while submerged in brine is the absolute perfect recipe for rapid and aggressive corrosion, the 14 years the ship sat in this environment is likely equal to what a car would see over 50 years of all year round road use.
In the same heavy saline marine environment powder coat would have probably lasted 3 weeks at best
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