Is it just me.....private sellers
Discussion
Just a general observation but maybe it’s only me. I’m finding private sellers hardly ever have images beneath their cars (to be fair this often applies to trade sellers) despite the obvious issues with chassis rot. It’s as if a 12 month MOT means it’s perfect under there - one looked like it had been stored in the sea and badly waxoiled but had a long MOT and was lovely topside. I’d not have driven it to the shops. I also find most sellers want the same or more money than for similar cars from known specialists.
Moderator edit: no wanted ads please
Edited by jeremyc on Friday 20th December 12:44
Trouble is, it's not easy getting chassis pics. Most owners don't have the benefit of a 4 post or 2 post lift. I've a set of wooden ramps which lift one one of the car at a time by a max of around 250 - 300mm. Getting light and a camera (or mobile phone) under there and focussed on anything ain't easy.
Edited by jeremyc on Friday 20th December 12:44
Also, don't know if it's the same on a Chim, but on the Cerbera it's very hard to see where they rot out - which is on top of the outriggers.
Mine all looked really good, I was touching up any rust on the chassis where I could see it, then a screwdriver went through. One body off later exposed the true horror
I think unless it's been recently done, you've got to budget for doing this sometime in your ownership if you plan to keep it a few years.
The obvious advice is to check the chassis when buying, but I wouldn't let it put me off the right car. There's so many been done now that everythings available, it's a known process, it's not that expensive...
Mine all looked really good, I was touching up any rust on the chassis where I could see it, then a screwdriver went through. One body off later exposed the true horror
I think unless it's been recently done, you've got to budget for doing this sometime in your ownership if you plan to keep it a few years.
The obvious advice is to check the chassis when buying, but I wouldn't let it put me off the right car. There's so many been done now that everythings available, it's a known process, it's not that expensive...
Hi your picture (and the advice of a respected TVR chap) is exactly why I am cautious and would only pay bargain money for a car without riggers or a chassis refurb of some kind. I think if what can be seen looks iffy then what’s hiding is as per your pics. Trouble is most private sellers don’t appear aware of these issues (or are aware and are just trying to get good money) and think their cars are worth top dollar. It’s going to be an interesting hunt and what that may prove fruitless as I won’t be spending £25k on a freshly rebuilt car - nowt wrong with such a car at such a price but it opens up a different motoring world in terms of other brands.
Its worth keeping in mind the standard of outrigger replacement work can vary greatly, it's easy to assume all the chassis corrosion problems have been completly sorted just because the car has recieved a set of replacement outriggers sometime in the past, sadly this couldnt be further from the truth 
One solution is to buy a car that needs a chassis restoration and then make sure its done properly during your ownership, unfortunately this is never going to be the most cost effective approach unless you're doing the work yourself so what you're looking for is a car that's already had a body off chassis restoration thats been done properly.
The truth is there are plenty of people out there who've bought a £13k Chimaera only to find themselves spending another £7k on it in the first few years of ownership to bring it up to snuff, that's £20k spent to end up with a car thats worth £15k at best so a very efficient way to waste five grand.
What they should have done was buy a car for £15k that has already had the chassis restoration completed, it'll prove way cheaper and means the car can be enjoyed immediatly. Finally it's important to understand while chassis condition is the top of every Chimaera buyer's list of things to check it's not like thats the only big potential cost of owbnership, an engine rebuild could easily suck £5k from your pockets and trim work isnt cheap either.
The best advice therefore is to save up for longer and buy a better example thats had as many of the expensive jobs completed already, this has always been the smart way to buy any classic car.
One solution is to buy a car that needs a chassis restoration and then make sure its done properly during your ownership, unfortunately this is never going to be the most cost effective approach unless you're doing the work yourself so what you're looking for is a car that's already had a body off chassis restoration thats been done properly.
The truth is there are plenty of people out there who've bought a £13k Chimaera only to find themselves spending another £7k on it in the first few years of ownership to bring it up to snuff, that's £20k spent to end up with a car thats worth £15k at best so a very efficient way to waste five grand.
What they should have done was buy a car for £15k that has already had the chassis restoration completed, it'll prove way cheaper and means the car can be enjoyed immediatly. Finally it's important to understand while chassis condition is the top of every Chimaera buyer's list of things to check it's not like thats the only big potential cost of owbnership, an engine rebuild could easily suck £5k from your pockets and trim work isnt cheap either.
The best advice therefore is to save up for longer and buy a better example thats had as many of the expensive jobs completed already, this has always been the smart way to buy any classic car.
Hi ChimponG I agree with every word you’ve said and I’ve discounted buying a cheap car and fixing it as they are impossible to find cheap enough for the numbers to stack up (or at least very hard). I’m also concerned that unless the centre section was inspected during a body lift rigger replacement that anything could be hiding away. Maybe I need a car where I can see everything like my old Caterham - trouble is not ideal for a trip across France (the Caterham).
Hey chill out a bit bloke. No aggression here, but your comments were a tad terse at best. Public forum and you're asking advice, mine would be don't start offending 'private sellers' before you've even seen the cars. Good advice can be had here (along with some dross too) so calm down.
I sold mine here 'with' photos from everywhere, no chassis work as none was needed as I'd taken sensible precautions when I first had it making stainless guards front and back to stop any debris getting behind the outriggers amongst other measures, but I digress.
I sold mine here 'with' photos from everywhere, no chassis work as none was needed as I'd taken sensible precautions when I first had it making stainless guards front and back to stop any debris getting behind the outriggers amongst other measures, but I digress.
Edited by macdeb on Friday 20th December 14:15
I’ve had various repairs done to get mine through MOT’s, but I dread to think what the unseen bits look like.
Based on my car, I’m not sure that seeing the current shiny bits of metal I can take pictures of, would tell you the whole story.
Come to think of it, I’ve never bought a car after seeing a picture of it’s under b
ks.
Cerbera wise, if I’m buying another, it’s going to need a chassis. I presume a new one doesn’t last for ever, so that too would eventually need replacing ?
Based on my car, I’m not sure that seeing the current shiny bits of metal I can take pictures of, would tell you the whole story.
Come to think of it, I’ve never bought a car after seeing a picture of it’s under b
ks.Cerbera wise, if I’m buying another, it’s going to need a chassis. I presume a new one doesn’t last for ever, so that too would eventually need replacing ?
adeal3 said:
Hi ChimponG I agree with every word you’ve said and I’ve discounted buying a cheap car and fixing it as they are impossible to find cheap enough for the numbers to stack up (or at least very hard). I’m also concerned that unless the centre section was inspected during a body lift rigger replacement that anything could be hiding away.
You're definitely looking for a car that's had a body off restoration with accompanying photo evidence, but I'm sure you'll find that because lots of TVRs have enjoyed this work in the last 10 years. Most get powder coated because its cheap and easy to aply, it also gives a lovely smooth finish but do keep in mind even the best powder coat job will chip, and once it chips thats the begining of the end unless the chassis was properly primed or hot zinc sprayed, personally I'd choose 2k epoxy mastic paint over powder coat every time but as with all paint work the end result is only as good as the prep.Wishbones are relitively cheap to buy and straightforward to replace so can pretty much be treated as a consumable item, but the only way to restore the chassis properly (even if it just needs outriggers) is to remove the body. If the car has had new outriggers fitted with the body still attached to the chassis I'd proceed with caution, it's well accepted it's impossible to see the common outrigger corrosion with the body still on the car so it's equally impossible to see if new outriggers were properly welded without removing the body.
There are plenty out there hiding a very poor standard of outrigger replacement work, many claim otherwise but I still can't accept there's sufficient access to complete a full and well penetrated 360 degree weld on every tube with the body still in place which is why some end up with this sort of job from so called TVR specialists .....
It seems the original TVR powder coat job lasted roughly 70,000 miles or 15 years whichever came sooner, and with most Chimaeras ticking both boxes if you're looking at a car on its original chassis assume it'll need the body lifting and new tube letting in. So the best advice is to look for a Chimaera thats had a body off restoration with accompanying photographic evidence, but even then if it was done a few years ago you still need to check how the work has stood up to the test of time.
Gazzab said:
There’s one thing worse than private sellers - private buyers. ;-)
^^This squared!^^Particularly those that say in their opening lines when they enquire about your car that they "appreciate this is at the lower end of the market price wise" then expect everything shiny and new with no work required either now or in the future.
To quote ChimponGas : "The best advice therefore is to save up for longer and buy a better example that's had as many of the expensive jobs completed already, this has always been the smart way to buy any classic car".
But of course you need to know those expensive jobs have been done correctly .
adeal3 said:
Hi your picture (and the advice of a respected TVR chap) is exactly why I am cautious and would only pay bargain money for a car without riggers or a chassis refurb of some kind. I think if what can be seen looks iffy then what’s hiding is as per your pics. Trouble is most private sellers don’t appear aware of these issues (or are aware and are just trying to get good money) and think their cars are worth top dollar. It’s going to be an interesting hunt and what that may prove fruitless as I won’t be spending £25k on a freshly rebuilt car - nowt wrong with such a car at such a price but it opens up a different motoring world in terms of other brands.
So you don’t want to pay for a rebuilt car because you could buy something else at 25k and you want to pay rock bottom for one that hasn’t. I’d say give up now. You won’t like TVR ownership.
Sellers look out.
m4tti said:
So you don’t want to pay for a rebuilt car because you could buy something else at 25k and you want to pay rock bottom for one that hasn’t.
I’d say give up now. You won’t like TVR ownership.
Sellers look out.
^^This^^I’d say give up now. You won’t like TVR ownership.
Sellers look out.
He's looking for perfection while he says "appreciate this is at the lower end of the market price wise".
My car, currently for sale, is a 86000 mile car which has been well serviced with a lot of ££££ spent on making sure it's reliable, the engine is spot on, interior and bodywork good, the chassis is original, has been regularly treated, but the outriggers, which look worse in the crappy flash photographs taken on an old phone, while squeezing under the car on my back will require replacing at some point in the future. As a poster above has said, an engine rebuild will cost more than outrigger replacement.
adeal3 said:
Hi your picture (and the advice of a respected TVR chap) is exactly why I am cautious and would only pay bargain money for a car without riggers or a chassis refurb of some kind. I think if what can be seen looks iffy then what’s hiding is as per your pics. Trouble is most private sellers don’t appear aware of these issues (or are aware and are just trying to get good money) and think their cars are worth top dollar. It’s going to be an interesting hunt and what that may prove fruitless as I won’t be spending £25k on a freshly rebuilt car - nowt wrong with such a car at such a price but it opens up a different motoring world in terms of other brands.
I was really trying to point out that pictures will tell you nothing.It depends on how long you are going to keep the car. If you're just going to dip in, run it for a couple of years, sell up and move on then you can do that by buying a car on a good inspection, but if you expect to keep it for a long time, then these are the sort of jobs you have to plan for.
The cars are now at an age where most chassis will have been done or will need doing soon, but you need to be aware these aren't always cheap cars to run, but that most enthusiast owners spend whatevers needed on their cars.
Chassis repairs really aren't a worry these days. As said there's lots of experience now. A lot of the bodges shown were on the first ones done.
You get a lot of performance for your money, a great club and owners, lots of attention, but don' think these can be run on a shoestring.
adeal3 said:
Hi ChimponG I agree with every word you’ve said and I’ve discounted buying a cheap car and fixing it as they are impossible to find cheap enough for the numbers to stack up (or at least very hard). I’m also concerned that unless the centre section was inspected during a body lift rigger replacement that anything could be hiding away. Maybe I need a car where I can see everything like my old Caterham - trouble is not ideal for a trip across France (the Caterham).
Why not? The ideal thing about a project is then you know everything is perfect or to your acceptable standards, especially if you're going to keep the car.As for a Caterham, I used to engineer for a private competitor with the 750 motor club series. His roadsport we sold on, only the panel behind the seat was original, Caterham did a cut and shut on the chassis following a front end collision, then did the same to the rear the following year. We wreaked the engine big time at Nurberg circuit after the crank pully bolt came loose, don't even get me into changing gearboxes and clutches on those...
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