An abandoned TVR Griffith 500 - 96 P reg
Discussion
My uncle is downsizing and as a result can no longer offer car storage to the five owners who have been using his facilities.
He has been unable to get hold of the owner of the remaining car, a Sept 96 TVR Griffith 500, for at least five years. Whilst the unpaid storage bills are nothing new, the car’s presence is of course now more pressing as he will be moving house. Emails have been sent and read, but not answered. The owner’s employer has confirmed he does still work there, but the owner is still illusive. Bizarre.
The contract my uncle has with the owner does state that in such a situation, the car can be sold to recover debt, but as an Audi/VW fan, I’ve no idea of the value. The car has just over 48K miles on the clock and is dark blue with beige leather. The car has been in storage and under a dust sheet, but given the time involved, the car too is quite dusty. He has two keys but, perhaps obviously, no logbook/V5.
To get the ball rolling I’ve suggested he fill in a V888 form to send to the DVLA, to see if they hold a different address for the owner to the one he has.
Does anyone have any pointers, and how does this model compare with other mid-90s TVRs? Thanks
He has been unable to get hold of the owner of the remaining car, a Sept 96 TVR Griffith 500, for at least five years. Whilst the unpaid storage bills are nothing new, the car’s presence is of course now more pressing as he will be moving house. Emails have been sent and read, but not answered. The owner’s employer has confirmed he does still work there, but the owner is still illusive. Bizarre.
The contract my uncle has with the owner does state that in such a situation, the car can be sold to recover debt, but as an Audi/VW fan, I’ve no idea of the value. The car has just over 48K miles on the clock and is dark blue with beige leather. The car has been in storage and under a dust sheet, but given the time involved, the car too is quite dusty. He has two keys but, perhaps obviously, no logbook/V5.
To get the ball rolling I’ve suggested he fill in a V888 form to send to the DVLA, to see if they hold a different address for the owner to the one he has.
Does anyone have any pointers, and how does this model compare with other mid-90s TVRs? Thanks
One option, is to apply for the V5 in your name.
Contact the owner, telling him you value the car at less than the outstanding storage costs, and unless you hear within 28 days you'll apply for ownership of the vehicle.
Then in 28 days, apply to the DVLA for the V5.
Assuming he doesn't object to them, then the car is yours!
Contact the owner, telling him you value the car at less than the outstanding storage costs, and unless you hear within 28 days you'll apply for ownership of the vehicle.
Then in 28 days, apply to the DVLA for the V5.
Assuming he doesn't object to them, then the car is yours!
cavalrystu said:
One option, is to apply for the V5 in your name.
Contact the owner, telling him you value the car at less than the outstanding storage costs, and unless you hear within 28 days you'll apply for ownership of the vehicle.
Then in 28 days, apply to the DVLA for the V5.
Assuming he doesn't object to them, then the car is yours!
I'm sure it's not quite that simple, You'll need proof that the owner was given sufficient notice and that adequate effort was made to locate the owner or next of kin. I would think a solicitor would need to be involved. You could contact your council and log the car with them as an abandoned vehicle on your property. If they remove it for you however you will not get title to the carContact the owner, telling him you value the car at less than the outstanding storage costs, and unless you hear within 28 days you'll apply for ownership of the vehicle.
Then in 28 days, apply to the DVLA for the V5.
Assuming he doesn't object to them, then the car is yours!
Thanks both for your responses. I have advised my uncle to fill in and send off the V888 form to see if the DVLA come back with any extra/new contact details for the owner that he doesn't already hold.
Then I have suggested he try contact again.
After reading the above I've seen the V5 request form is a V62 so will advise after a month or so he fills in one of those to see if that gets the owner finally involved.
Thanks.
Then I have suggested he try contact again.
After reading the above I've seen the V5 request form is a V62 so will advise after a month or so he fills in one of those to see if that gets the owner finally involved.
Thanks.
I'd keep it simple and avoid solicitors if you can. Why not go to his work and wait outside either before he starts work or when he finishes? Make sure you have a witness and try speaking to him to resolve it. If he's not interested, hand him a formal letter (always keep copies and record dates and times) telling him that under the contract (give him a copy again just to be sure) he must remove the car within 14 days or he will lose the car. Also demand full payment of the storage charges and hand him an itemised copy. Give him 14 days to pay up in full.
If he simply says 'keep the car' and walks off be careful. He must sign it over to you in those circumstances so take a prepared receipt with you. It only needs to say something like, "Received TVR Griffith car registered number PXXX XXX as full and final settlement of outstanding storage charges at ................(insert address) between ..............and......... (insert dates)" then have him sign both copies and hand him one.
Try using 192.com to locate him if you have a rough idea where he lives and if he shows up on their records it will cost around £15 to see the results.
If he simply says 'keep the car' and walks off be careful. He must sign it over to you in those circumstances so take a prepared receipt with you. It only needs to say something like, "Received TVR Griffith car registered number PXXX XXX as full and final settlement of outstanding storage charges at ................(insert address) between ..............and......... (insert dates)" then have him sign both copies and hand him one.
Try using 192.com to locate him if you have a rough idea where he lives and if he shows up on their records it will cost around £15 to see the results.
DO NOT FOLLOW N7GTX'S ADVICE
If a solicitor is not being used, then that is a matter for you/your Uncle, but get some proper advice from the Citizens' Advice Bureau or a Law Centre etc.
Turning up at someone's place of employment unannounced and confronting people with demands to transfer the ownership of the vehicle or threats to sell it, is likely to see you removed by security/police called/harassment charges etc. If you do simply sell the vehicle, then you are likely to face theft charges, and civil claims from the current owner and the person to whom the vehicle is sold.
If you are not prepared to instruct a solicitor/get advice from the CAB etc., at least read the Torts (Interference with Goods) Act 1977, especially Schedule 1, which tells you how to serve the proper notice required. Also read Part 6 of the Civil Procedure Rules about service of documents on people at their addresses. Both the Act and the CPR are easily found online for free.
If a solicitor is not being used, then that is a matter for you/your Uncle, but get some proper advice from the Citizens' Advice Bureau or a Law Centre etc.
Turning up at someone's place of employment unannounced and confronting people with demands to transfer the ownership of the vehicle or threats to sell it, is likely to see you removed by security/police called/harassment charges etc. If you do simply sell the vehicle, then you are likely to face theft charges, and civil claims from the current owner and the person to whom the vehicle is sold.
If you are not prepared to instruct a solicitor/get advice from the CAB etc., at least read the Torts (Interference with Goods) Act 1977, especially Schedule 1, which tells you how to serve the proper notice required. Also read Part 6 of the Civil Procedure Rules about service of documents on people at their addresses. Both the Act and the CPR are easily found online for free.
LucyP said:
DO NOT FOLLOW N7GTX'S ADVICE
If a solicitor is not being used, then that is a matter for you/your Uncle, but get some proper advice from the Citizens' Advice Bureau or a Law Centre etc.
Turning up at someone's place of employment unannounced and confronting people with demands to transfer the ownership of the vehicle or threats to sell it, is likely to see you removed by security/police called/harassment charges etc. If you do simply sell the vehicle, then you are likely to face theft charges, and civil claims from the current owner and the person to whom the vehicle is sold.
If you are not prepared to instruct a solicitor/get advice from the CAB etc., at least read the Torts (Interference with Goods) Act 1977, especially Schedule 1, which tells you how to serve the proper notice required. Also read Part 6 of the Civil Procedure Rules about service of documents on people at their addresses. Both the Act and the CPR are easily found online for free.
The usual drivel from LucyP who has no idea what she's talking about. Again If a solicitor is not being used, then that is a matter for you/your Uncle, but get some proper advice from the Citizens' Advice Bureau or a Law Centre etc.
Turning up at someone's place of employment unannounced and confronting people with demands to transfer the ownership of the vehicle or threats to sell it, is likely to see you removed by security/police called/harassment charges etc. If you do simply sell the vehicle, then you are likely to face theft charges, and civil claims from the current owner and the person to whom the vehicle is sold.
If you are not prepared to instruct a solicitor/get advice from the CAB etc., at least read the Torts (Interference with Goods) Act 1977, especially Schedule 1, which tells you how to serve the proper notice required. Also read Part 6 of the Civil Procedure Rules about service of documents on people at their addresses. Both the Act and the CPR are easily found online for free.
I never said confront the owner. I never said demand transfer and all the drivel he/she's posted.
I said that to find the owner, turning up at his work is no big deal. If he doesn't want to speak he'll walk away. I suspect that this stupid response is part of his/her ongoing b
h with PHers complaining about the new TVR (check all his/her replies in that topic).Using Moneyclaim Online is simple but you will still need the postal address. Also beware of advice from CAB as they do unfortunately get it wrong from time to time. As for the serving of documents the above is irrelevant as once you have the address service is deemed to have occurred if you send it by recorded delivery (its on Moneyclaim's pages) so no need to read all that stuff posted here to fool you into believing he/she knows what he/she's talking about.
As long as you keep ignoring N7GTX's "advice", and listen to the solicitor that your Uncle has employed, then you should be fine, but just for reference - in spite of what N7GTX says: ("once you have the address service is deemed to have occurred if you send it by recorded delivery") that is totally incorrect. The whole point of recorded delivery is the word - recorded. The letter has to be signed for by a recipient. If no one will sign, or no one is at home, or they have left the address, then Royal Mail will take the letter back to the sorting office and leave a card advising where it can be collected. If no one collects it, they will return it to the sender as uncollected and it will not be deemed to be served, because it won't have been left at the recipient's address by Royal Mail. As I said previously, your solicitor will advise you properly as to the requirements of Part 6 of the Civil Procedure Rules.
As for money claims online. That is simply an online method of starting and managing County Court proceedings, and as such is governed by the Civil Procedure Rules. Practice Direction 7E states at paragraph 4: "A claim may be started using Money Claim Online if it meets all the following conditions –
(1) the only remedy claimed is a specified amount of money"
Your 1st post in this thread stated: "Whilst the unpaid storage bills are nothing new, the car’s presence is of course now more pressing as he will be moving house"
You therefore cannot use MCOL as you want to dispose of the car more than you want to collect the unpaid storage charges. In fact, I suspect that your Uncle might waive the unpaid storage if the car is collected, because if it is not, then the house sale cannot proceed, because no one is going to buy a house with someone else's car in the garage and have to take on the headache that your Uncle has, in trying to trace the owner and getting him to collect it etc.
Your solicitor will deal with the notice that has to be served under the Torts (Interference with Goods) Act 1977, before you can start any County Court proceedings to dispose of the car.
Your solicitor will also advise you how the contract can be terminated. I don't know how N7GTX can say: "telling him that under the contract (give him a copy again just to be sure) he must remove the car within 14 days or he will lose the car." N7GTX has never seen the contract! Neither have you specified what the notice periods are under the contract to terminate it in your posts.
As to N7GTX's advice: "Also demand full payment of the storage charges and hand him an itemised copy. Give him 14 days to pay up in full.
If he simply says 'keep the car' and walks off be careful. He must sign it over to you in those circumstances so take a prepared receipt with you."
Don't accept the car like that. With respect to your Uncle, I doubt that the value of the storage equates to the value of the car, let alone exceeds it. Basic car storage is about £30 per week. You describe the car as being full of dust, in spite of the sheet, so that is pretty basic storage. You say that it has been there for at least 5 years. The Griffith is low mileage, and whilst you don't state the condition, it is likely to we worth far more than the storage charges, so it is unlikely that anyone is just going to sign it over in lieu. And if they do, they will then claim that they did so under duress, from some person who just turned up at their work, with a "witness" as N7GTX puts it. "Telling him under contract.....he must.....(and) demand(ing) full payment....". I don't think any Court would have difficulty in finding that was intimidatory, and that he was under duress and declaring N7GTX's receipt null and void.
As for money claims online. That is simply an online method of starting and managing County Court proceedings, and as such is governed by the Civil Procedure Rules. Practice Direction 7E states at paragraph 4: "A claim may be started using Money Claim Online if it meets all the following conditions –
(1) the only remedy claimed is a specified amount of money"
Your 1st post in this thread stated: "Whilst the unpaid storage bills are nothing new, the car’s presence is of course now more pressing as he will be moving house"
You therefore cannot use MCOL as you want to dispose of the car more than you want to collect the unpaid storage charges. In fact, I suspect that your Uncle might waive the unpaid storage if the car is collected, because if it is not, then the house sale cannot proceed, because no one is going to buy a house with someone else's car in the garage and have to take on the headache that your Uncle has, in trying to trace the owner and getting him to collect it etc.
Your solicitor will deal with the notice that has to be served under the Torts (Interference with Goods) Act 1977, before you can start any County Court proceedings to dispose of the car.
Your solicitor will also advise you how the contract can be terminated. I don't know how N7GTX can say: "telling him that under the contract (give him a copy again just to be sure) he must remove the car within 14 days or he will lose the car." N7GTX has never seen the contract! Neither have you specified what the notice periods are under the contract to terminate it in your posts.
As to N7GTX's advice: "Also demand full payment of the storage charges and hand him an itemised copy. Give him 14 days to pay up in full.
If he simply says 'keep the car' and walks off be careful. He must sign it over to you in those circumstances so take a prepared receipt with you."
Don't accept the car like that. With respect to your Uncle, I doubt that the value of the storage equates to the value of the car, let alone exceeds it. Basic car storage is about £30 per week. You describe the car as being full of dust, in spite of the sheet, so that is pretty basic storage. You say that it has been there for at least 5 years. The Griffith is low mileage, and whilst you don't state the condition, it is likely to we worth far more than the storage charges, so it is unlikely that anyone is just going to sign it over in lieu. And if they do, they will then claim that they did so under duress, from some person who just turned up at their work, with a "witness" as N7GTX puts it. "Telling him under contract.....he must.....(and) demand(ing) full payment....". I don't think any Court would have difficulty in finding that was intimidatory, and that he was under duress and declaring N7GTX's receipt null and void.
Interesting one..and bizarre.
I might have missed this in the ongoing dialogue, but have you done a full online HPI check on it?..If there is a finance agreement , then it basically belongs to the finance company until paid off..? another possible point of contact for you or a lawyer to action the issue?
Remember right at the front of a V5 Document it states that V5 registration is NOT proof of ownership..
Just my two pennies worth.
Good luck.
I might have missed this in the ongoing dialogue, but have you done a full online HPI check on it?..If there is a finance agreement , then it basically belongs to the finance company until paid off..? another possible point of contact for you or a lawyer to action the issue?
Remember right at the front of a V5 Document it states that V5 registration is NOT proof of ownership..
Just my two pennies worth.
Good luck.
What resolution does your Uncle want?
The money? The car removed? The car removed and the money?
Does the contract provide your Uncle the option to cease providing storage?
If it does, then serve the required notice and then transport the car to the guys work address - or home.
Then start a MCOL for the storage fees and the towing costs.
Your uncle has survived without the money so far.
The money? The car removed? The car removed and the money?
Does the contract provide your Uncle the option to cease providing storage?
If it does, then serve the required notice and then transport the car to the guys work address - or home.
Then start a MCOL for the storage fees and the towing costs.
Your uncle has survived without the money so far.
It's very unlikely that a 1996 Griffith that is caked in dust, so has probably not been driven for most of the 5 years that it has been stored is on HP/Conditional Sale or a lease.
It's also very unlikely that any contract states that on termination, you can dump the car at the person's place of work! It's called fly-tipping, and I would call the Police and the Environment Agency if I was the employer and someone tried to dump it at my business premises. The whole point is that the address of the owner of the car is unknown, so it cannot be dumped there either.
It's also very unlikely that any contract states that on termination, you can dump the car at the person's place of work! It's called fly-tipping, and I would call the Police and the Environment Agency if I was the employer and someone tried to dump it at my business premises. The whole point is that the address of the owner of the car is unknown, so it cannot be dumped there either.
LucyP said:
It's very unlikely that a 1996 Griffith that is caked in dust, so has probably not been driven for most of the 5 years that it has been stored is on HP/Conditional Sale or a lease.
It's also very unlikely that any contract states that on termination, you can dump the car at the person's place of work! It's called fly-tipping, and I would call the Police and the Environment Agency if I was the employer and someone tried to dump it at my business premises. The whole point is that the address of the owner of the car is unknown, so it cannot be dumped there either.
Can you stop giving sensible advice. I want to see the sillier suggestions carried out. It's also very unlikely that any contract states that on termination, you can dump the car at the person's place of work! It's called fly-tipping, and I would call the Police and the Environment Agency if I was the employer and someone tried to dump it at my business premises. The whole point is that the address of the owner of the car is unknown, so it cannot be dumped there either.
LucyP-Agree that its very unlikely -but not impossible-that a car that has been dumped like this is still under HP/ lease. But the OP was asking for any suggestions and at present has come up against a brick wall. And people do walk away from cars and leave them with the mindet of "not my car, not my problem now, I'll let the loan company worry about it".. for all the time it takes to check , the worst that can happen is to find.. "no outstanding finance". Done.
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