TVR Racing Harnesses and Mounting Points

[JohnGBUK]

We have posted up a YouTube video today in which we are looking for your thoughts regarding how the anchorage / mounting points for the TVR racing harnesses can be better designed to improve safety for the vehicle occupants.
Looking for sensible engineering solutions please.
Mod edit link removed

Edited by Scrump on Sunday 29th September 22:11

[JohnMcL]

Check Sections 15,19 and 31 in the IVA manual. Lots of good advice as well as diagrams showing the required angles of belt runs.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...

Edited by JohnMcL on Thursday 26th September 22:11

[JohnMcL]

There are some other considerations in addition to harness fixings if the car is used on the road. I have just this issue in my own car and have been thinking about what to do for some time.
Harnesses are designed to hold a person tightly in the seat. There should be no free play between body and seat. That is OK on track but is uncomfortable and inconvenient on the road. Leaning forward at a T junction, reaching across the car or twisting to look over the shoulder become impossible. So the tendency is to wear the belts loosely and loose belts don’t work. There are recorded instances of harness wearing people being killed by hitting their heads against the top rails of a cage. I imagine the top of a windscreen frame could be just as dangerous.

So, what to do? My current plan is to convert the shoulder straps from fixed adjustable to inertia reel leaving the rest of the harness as is. Comments anyone? I know I will lose the FIA labels but although the car will go to track days, it will not race and the original belts can always be clipped back in.

The video prompted a second thought about using cars with roll bars without wearing helmets. A friend had a minor accident but still cracked his helmet against the bar. Better than cracking his head so I have overcome my self- consciousness and plan to use a helmet and have fitted roll bar padding.

[phillpot]

JohnMcL said:

Harnesses are designed to hold a person tightly in the seat. There should be no free play between body and seat. That is OK on track but is uncomfortable and inconvenient on the road. Leaning forward at a T junction, reaching across the car or twisting to look over the shoulder become impossible.

Good point...

if you're that concerned with safety maybe a plastic car with no side impact protection, air bags, crumple zones etc. is not a good idea!

[JohnGBUK]

JohnMcL said:

Harnesses are designed to hold a person tightly in the seat. There should be no free play between body and seat. That is OK on track but is uncomfortable and inconvenient on the road. Leaning forward at a T junction, reaching across the car or twisting to look over the shoulder become impossible. So the tendency is to wear the belts loosely and loose belts don’t work.

This is a good point. At the moment, we have not used the car for any significantly long journeys, just to and from car shows, etc. I think you could be right, if the car were to be used on a lengthy journey there would be perhaps a risk that the harness could be loosened for reasons of comfort and this would defeat the object of having one.

JohnMcL said:

....The video prompted a second thought about using cars with roll bars without wearing helmets. A friend had a minor accident but still cracked his helmet against the bar. Better than cracking his head so I have overcome my self- consciousness and plan to use a helmet and have fitted roll bar padding.

Yes, this is a good point and something I had previously had thoughts about. Banging ones head on the bar behind the seat will not have a great outcome. I need to give this some more thought. Removing the roll bar could itself remove a safety feature that could save a life in the event of a vehicle roll over. Inadequate protection for the head also could cause injury in the event of impact against the bar. A difficult one.

[phillpot]

JohnGBUK said:

Removing the roll bar could itself remove a safety feature that could save a life in the event of a vehicle roll over.

Yeah, seems every other week someone flips their S upside down

[JohnGBUK]

phillpot said:

Yeah, seems every other week someone flips their S upside down

I hope not, there are not that many of us with S series cars left in the world.

[JohnMcL]

phillpot said:

if you're that concerned with safety maybe a plastic car with no side impact protection, air bags, crumple zones etc. is not a good idea!

From a safety viewpoint, you are right. These cars are not a good idea. But they are fun, great to drive and beautiful to look at. Everything in life is a trade-off, a compromise. I am happy with my car whilst acknowledging its limitations. Others may come to a different conclusion. Each to his own.

Improving a harness installation as I suggested and fitting rollbar padding are easy additions to safety. Wearing a harness loosely renders it worthless and reduces harness installations to tacky bling.

Edited by JohnMcL on Friday 27th September 09:34

[JohnGBUK]

JohnMcL said:

phillpot said:

if you're that concerned with safety maybe a plastic car with no side impact protection, air bags, crumple zones etc. is not a good idea!

From a safety viewpoint, you are right. These cars are not a good idea. But they are fun, great to drive and beautiful to look at. Everything in life is a trade-off, a compromise. I am happy with my car whilst acknowledging its limitations. Others may come to a different conclusion. Each to his own.

The looks, the fact it is a British hand built car, it needs constant fettling, the beautiful noise it emits from the rear, the wind in the hair (if I had some), and the fact that I have to properly press the brake pedal and pull on the steering wheel are all the right reasons why I love owning my TVR.

My daily car is a new shape Jaguar XJ, in which I just press the start button and go in comfort. It has all the toys you could want, and so I have two very different cars and driving experiences.

[phillpot]

Just make sure you're in the Jag when you have a crash

[JohnGBUK]

phillpot said:

Just make sure you're in the Jag when you have a crash

Advice noted

[JohnGBUK]

We have received a response with a possible solution - To take the back straps over the top of the substantial tube at just above seat back level. Something for us to look at, including how the cage is fitted to the vehicle.