Noise cameras??
Discussion
So how the hell is this going to work?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48564995
Has to be exemption for classics etc. What was the legal noise level TVR built there cars to? I'm guessing they didn't bother haha...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48564995
Has to be exemption for classics etc. What was the legal noise level TVR built there cars to? I'm guessing they didn't bother haha...
Not sure what the original levels were, but mine must be very close to it.
I must have one of the few Chimaeras left that hasn't been dicked-about with, having both pre-cats, main cat and silencing all in place
I am not worried, as it is not too loud and I can always say that it is 100% unmodified, factory original.
I doubt you would be done by a camera with a standard factory standard system on a Rover V8 Griff/Chim.
I must have one of the few Chimaeras left that hasn't been dicked-about with, having both pre-cats, main cat and silencing all in place
I am not worried, as it is not too loud and I can always say that it is 100% unmodified, factory original.
I doubt you would be done by a camera with a standard factory standard system on a Rover V8 Griff/Chim.
What next? Glad I am getting older and have had a few laughs so far, reckon the next few generations are going to have a right boring life. Played knock down ginger when I was a kid, hung out of train door windows, chained my teachers moped to the railings and lobbed the key down a drain, flooded rooms at school, rang Argentina on my mates house phone and chatted to some woman for half an hour then went into hiding when he told me about the phone bill, rode a moped lid less with my mate on the back past a load of bird watchers who got seriously upset but at least they saw the birds in flight.... grew up a bit and started messing around with cars, and vans, and things, now my Tivs are about as non pc as I go yet that is under threat it seems, so what are the youth of today to do? Go online to play a game, go online to meet a partner, go online to shop..... sshhh the keyboard is too noisy
J
J
I would think very little will happen on this.
First, it would seem, they have not established a noise level.
Second they will not be able to enforce it if they don't include it in the MOT test. If such a test were included, in the same way it is for an IVA test, then each testing station would have to have an open area in which to conduct the test. Most stations don't have space for another parked car let alone a clear unobstructed area.
Steve
First, it would seem, they have not established a noise level.
Second they will not be able to enforce it if they don't include it in the MOT test. If such a test were included, in the same way it is for an IVA test, then each testing station would have to have an open area in which to conduct the test. Most stations don't have space for another parked car let alone a clear unobstructed area.
Steve
Sorry to revamp an old thread.
It would appear that this is currently being trialled in different parts of the country and if a success (however that is defined) is about to go live nationwide.
What really got my back up is that the monthly e-mail newsletter from my MP, where she says about all the good she is doing for the area, says she has applied for a noise camera to be placed on one of my favourite roads. I do concede the road is a bit blighted by boy racers and for some time I have been expecting a speed camera to appear, but a noise camera?
Information on the web (well that little I could find in my lunch break) is a bit scarce and light on detail.
It would appear they can prosecute (hopefully fixed penalty) if your car makes above a predetermined noise limit, whether that be through a modified exhaust or antisocial revving. I cannot find what that pre-determined limit is.
Modern cars have to be below 74 decibels. Is that at idle, or full chat?
Many TVR's struggle to meet a track day limit of 90-something or 100 decibel. I appreciate that is when revved, but you could also be revving it as you accelerate from a bend, or junction, on an open road.
I don't expect my pre-cat is less than 74 decibels at tickover.
Don't get me wrong, I can see the reasons why some would be in favour of this, especially in residential areas. However, this could have far reaching implications for a lot of people.
I don't want to start a massive rant, but does anyone have any factual information about how this will work? In the mean time I will e-mail my MP and ask her, but don't expect to get a prompt or sensible reply.
It would appear that this is currently being trialled in different parts of the country and if a success (however that is defined) is about to go live nationwide.
What really got my back up is that the monthly e-mail newsletter from my MP, where she says about all the good she is doing for the area, says she has applied for a noise camera to be placed on one of my favourite roads. I do concede the road is a bit blighted by boy racers and for some time I have been expecting a speed camera to appear, but a noise camera?
Information on the web (well that little I could find in my lunch break) is a bit scarce and light on detail.
It would appear they can prosecute (hopefully fixed penalty) if your car makes above a predetermined noise limit, whether that be through a modified exhaust or antisocial revving. I cannot find what that pre-determined limit is.
Modern cars have to be below 74 decibels. Is that at idle, or full chat?
Many TVR's struggle to meet a track day limit of 90-something or 100 decibel. I appreciate that is when revved, but you could also be revving it as you accelerate from a bend, or junction, on an open road.
I don't expect my pre-cat is less than 74 decibels at tickover.
Don't get me wrong, I can see the reasons why some would be in favour of this, especially in residential areas. However, this could have far reaching implications for a lot of people.
I don't want to start a massive rant, but does anyone have any factual information about how this will work? In the mean time I will e-mail my MP and ask her, but don't expect to get a prompt or sensible reply.
Daggsy said:
So this is what 'Taking Back Control' is all about after Brexit.
Will the Tories expect people to report their neighbours, friends and relatives so that mobile noise detectors could be used.
Will the Tories expect people to report their neighbours, friends and relatives so that mobile noise detectors could be used.
If you happen to experience difficulty sleeping, try reading over 1,000 pages of this;
Directive of the European Parliament and of the Council, relating to the assessment and management of environmental noise.
Unlikely that you will still be awake by the end of it, but if so, then try anither lengthy tome, The EU Legislation On Road Traffic Noise - Regulation and Enforcement.
Just a microscopic sample.
1.1 EU Policy
Environmental noise, caused by traffic and industrial and recreational activities, is considered to
be a significant local environmental problem in Europe. It is estimated that millions of people
suffer from noise levels that scientists and health experts consider unacceptable. The limitation
of noise from transport vehicles and certain types of equipment is a necessary step towards
reducing noise pollution in the European Community. The main focus of European Union noise
policy is on noise abatement through the use of mandatory technical standards for products. The
most important legal tools consist of a set of directives establishing noise emission limits for
particular products: motor vehicles, motorcycles, tyres, aeroplanes, household appliances and
outdoor equipment. In addition, there are two important new directives: the first provides for the
imposition of noise-related operating restrictions at airports; the second provides for the creation
of noise maps and action plans in order to reduce environmental noise.
1.2 EC Legal Instruments
Existing EC source-specific noise control legislation can be divided into four categories: motor
vehicles, aeroplanes, outdoor equipment, and household appliances. In addition, a new directive
is concerned with the assessment and management of ambient environmental noise caused by
a broad range of human activities which includes means of transport and industrial activity.
1.2.1 Motor Vehicles
The first category includes two directives related to type-approval procedures for motor vehicles
and motorcycles, with respect to noise emissions. The directives set limits on permitted sound
levels for the vehicles, their exhaust systems and silencers, together with requirements for enforcement.
In the short term, before we are all in electric vehicles, it appears to me we could be fined for driving a completely standard TVR past a noise camera, just because, its noisy. I am not talking winding it up to 6,000 RPM, but just a steady speed in line with the traffic flow drive past.
If noise cameras are being used, someone must have invented a way of being able to see noise. Very clever.
The picture below is is visible representation of sound, but of course producing the trace requires a microphone. The camera only assists with identification.
On second thoughts, perhaps it is presumptuous of me to expect politicians to know what they are talking about.
Do you remember the MP who was cross about litter being dropped and said she wanted legislation to be introduced to stop it ?
Some MPs don't even know what laws Parliament has already introduced.
I cannot believe a court would uphold a noise conviction, if the car is completely unaltered from original manufacture.
Presumably the vehicle must have complied with the noise regulations at the time of manufacture, so how can it become illegal later on. Laws are rarely retrospective.
I have recently occasionally heard lengthy backfiring sounds. Clearly the vehicle has been altered in some way to achieve that sound, which is audible from a long way away. Those are the type of situations that the law should/presumably will be dealing with.
The supercar season in Kensington is probably under scrutiny.
My standard Aston Martin can be noisy under full acceleration, but it would be irresponsible of me to do that in Kensington, or anywhere else where people are nearby. Cars can be noise legal, but 'due care and attention' is the responsibility of drivers. You can therefore envisage a prosecution involving a noise legal car, but being driven in an irresponsible manner.
Remember that the manufacturer noise test, involves particular engine speeds. Hence why some manufacturers fit automatic open/close exhaust valves.
Jon, you are absolutely spot on and I agree with all your points.
However, I understand that noise cameras (currently being trialled at various places in the country) just register above a certain number of decibels (I don't know what level that is) and then photograph the offending car. This then leads to a fine based on the fact that either the car has a non standard noisy exhaust OR it is being driven antisocially, say due to be revved excessively.
Modern cars have to be less than 74 decibels (I think), although I am not sure at what revs.
I expect my pre cat Griff, on a completely standard exhaust, makes 74 decibels or possibly a bit more just at tick over.
My concern is that I trigger the noise meter, not because I am driving like a loon, but because just driving past at say 2,000 RPM constant speed / throttle, it makes sufficient noise to trigger the camera and therefor a fine.
I also fully understand why these are probably a good think in residential areas, although that still makes it awkward if you are in a noisy car, even it it was that noisy when it left the factory.
However, my second concern is that I learnt yesterday that we will most likely have one of these noise cameras fitted on one of my favourite roads in the new year. This is not a residential road, but an open country road where there are no residents. I do acknowledge that there is a problem with boy racer types on this road and I have long been expecting a speed camera to pop up. But seems I was wrong and we are getting a noise camera instead. Whilst speed cameras are annoying it is relatively easy (providing the driver is paying attention) to be sure that you are not exceeding the speed limit when driving past them. This may not be so easy with a noise camera. The road in question has a steep hill on part of it. If the camera is there it will be easy to pass it downhill on zero throttle, but going uphill quietly could be challenging. Hopefully common sense will prevail and they will place it on a flat section of road (or better still, not at all).
However, I understand that noise cameras (currently being trialled at various places in the country) just register above a certain number of decibels (I don't know what level that is) and then photograph the offending car. This then leads to a fine based on the fact that either the car has a non standard noisy exhaust OR it is being driven antisocially, say due to be revved excessively.
Modern cars have to be less than 74 decibels (I think), although I am not sure at what revs.
I expect my pre cat Griff, on a completely standard exhaust, makes 74 decibels or possibly a bit more just at tick over.
My concern is that I trigger the noise meter, not because I am driving like a loon, but because just driving past at say 2,000 RPM constant speed / throttle, it makes sufficient noise to trigger the camera and therefor a fine.
I also fully understand why these are probably a good think in residential areas, although that still makes it awkward if you are in a noisy car, even it it was that noisy when it left the factory.
However, my second concern is that I learnt yesterday that we will most likely have one of these noise cameras fitted on one of my favourite roads in the new year. This is not a residential road, but an open country road where there are no residents. I do acknowledge that there is a problem with boy racer types on this road and I have long been expecting a speed camera to pop up. But seems I was wrong and we are getting a noise camera instead. Whilst speed cameras are annoying it is relatively easy (providing the driver is paying attention) to be sure that you are not exceeding the speed limit when driving past them. This may not be so easy with a noise camera. The road in question has a steep hill on part of it. If the camera is there it will be easy to pass it downhill on zero throttle, but going uphill quietly could be challenging. Hopefully common sense will prevail and they will place it on a flat section of road (or better still, not at all).
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