2003 Tamora - Non Starting
Discussion
Right so Tamy cut out at Brands Hatch.
Fuel pump wasn't running.
Investigations to date are;
30amp fuse to fuel pump blown. Changed but blown instantly.
Relay changed. Fuse doesn't blow. Fuel pump still not working. Relay tested - works.
TVR diagnostics showed no faults.
Fuseboard checks. Power to relay switch - 12V. Power to relay feed -12V. Bridge link wire from feed to output sends 12V to pump connector plug in boot.
Bridge link also starts power steering pump running.
Plugging the pump connector in then blows the 30amp fuse. Power steering pump also stops.
Disconnect power steering pump connector in engine bay, fuse doesn't blow, fuel pumps run.
Varley manual says there is a separate fuse - number 36- for the power steering.
Clearly something has broken and drawing too much current. As the two run individually, my thoughts are that it is a unit fault as opposed to a wiring loom fault (eg shorting).
Anybody had similar issues? What do people suggest next?
Thanks.
Fuel pump wasn't running.
Investigations to date are;
30amp fuse to fuel pump blown. Changed but blown instantly.
Relay changed. Fuse doesn't blow. Fuel pump still not working. Relay tested - works.
TVR diagnostics showed no faults.
Fuseboard checks. Power to relay switch - 12V. Power to relay feed -12V. Bridge link wire from feed to output sends 12V to pump connector plug in boot.
Bridge link also starts power steering pump running.
Plugging the pump connector in then blows the 30amp fuse. Power steering pump also stops.
Disconnect power steering pump connector in engine bay, fuse doesn't blow, fuel pumps run.
Varley manual says there is a separate fuse - number 36- for the power steering.
Clearly something has broken and drawing too much current. As the two run individually, my thoughts are that it is a unit fault as opposed to a wiring loom fault (eg shorting).
Anybody had similar issues? What do people suggest next?
Thanks.
Like the crystal maze.. so many clues.
I'd start by following the post in this thread from chimpongas, it's essentially what I'd do but with out the Boy Scout tool kit advice. http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=135...
After that if you still haven't verified it, look behind the fuse board.
But I'd suspect the pump is on the way out.
Edited by m4tti on Friday 10th March 22:48
Apologies, forgot to mention that we did a continuity test on the fuel pump wiring and it tested fine.
Thanks for the pointers. I'll drop the fuseboard and check the other side of it.
The power steering has been grumbling so I may swap the pump and relay for Suni's ones to see if those can be eliminated.
Thanks for the pointers. I'll drop the fuseboard and check the other side of it.
The power steering has been grumbling so I may swap the pump and relay for Suni's ones to see if those can be eliminated.
Right, so time has slipped away from me on this and Brands Hatch is Tuesday week.
1. New relay was sourced and tested prior to fitting, ie it clicks when power is supplied to the switch. A known working relay was available too.
2. A known working spare power steering pump relay was found.
3. A fly lead with indicator bulb fitted to check the relay switch circuit.
4. The fuse removed and a 30amp circuit breaker and fly leads added.
5. A dual fly lead to bridge the power supply and the two supplies to the pumps.
So the relays were pulled, the fuse pulled and the fuel tank connector pulled.
I connected the circuit breaker across the pulled fuse. The indicator lamp fitted over the switch circuit. Fly lead fitted from the power supply to one of the pumps.
Ignition on and the indicator lamp comes on then goes off after a second. Fuel pump running. Turned the car over and indicator lamp comes back on the car fires and runs.
Stopped it and connected the power steering pump relay. Car started as before. This time the power steering turned on.
Stopped in and swap the feed on to the second pump. Car started, just, but ran rough. Power steering pump didn't come on.
Circuit breaker didn't trip on either tests.
Stopped it and connected power supply to both pumps. Started fine. Circuit breaker didn't trip. Car ran fine if a little rich on petrol if the exhaust smell was any indicator. Power steering working.
So pulled the circuit breaker and replaced with fuse. Started the car and the fuse didn't blow.
So pulled the indicator bulb and power bypass and refitted relay.
Car didn't start. Fuel pumps not running. Steering pump not running. Tried the other relay. Nothing. Fuse didn't blow though.
Any ideas?
Should I drop the fuse board?
I may make some fly leads up to remotely connect the relay?
1. New relay was sourced and tested prior to fitting, ie it clicks when power is supplied to the switch. A known working relay was available too.
2. A known working spare power steering pump relay was found.
3. A fly lead with indicator bulb fitted to check the relay switch circuit.
4. The fuse removed and a 30amp circuit breaker and fly leads added.
5. A dual fly lead to bridge the power supply and the two supplies to the pumps.
So the relays were pulled, the fuse pulled and the fuel tank connector pulled.
I connected the circuit breaker across the pulled fuse. The indicator lamp fitted over the switch circuit. Fly lead fitted from the power supply to one of the pumps.
Ignition on and the indicator lamp comes on then goes off after a second. Fuel pump running. Turned the car over and indicator lamp comes back on the car fires and runs.
Stopped it and connected the power steering pump relay. Car started as before. This time the power steering turned on.
Stopped in and swap the feed on to the second pump. Car started, just, but ran rough. Power steering pump didn't come on.
Circuit breaker didn't trip on either tests.
Stopped it and connected power supply to both pumps. Started fine. Circuit breaker didn't trip. Car ran fine if a little rich on petrol if the exhaust smell was any indicator. Power steering working.
So pulled the circuit breaker and replaced with fuse. Started the car and the fuse didn't blow.
So pulled the indicator bulb and power bypass and refitted relay.
Car didn't start. Fuel pumps not running. Steering pump not running. Tried the other relay. Nothing. Fuse didn't blow though.
Any ideas?
Should I drop the fuse board?
I may make some fly leads up to remotely connect the relay?
Do you have the correct type of relay.
Same problem came up in a different thread.
If the relay is 5 pin then it is likely to need the type that has 2 pins marked 87 not the type with an 87 and an 87a..
The double 87 is not a common type of relay so has to be carefully selected.
I still suspect the main issue is one of the pumps, be that fuel or steering, is faulty and drawing too much current. when tested on their own they seem OK but put them all in circuit and they are too much for the 30amp fuse.
Steve
Same problem came up in a different thread.
If the relay is 5 pin then it is likely to need the type that has 2 pins marked 87 not the type with an 87 and an 87a..
The double 87 is not a common type of relay so has to be carefully selected.
I still suspect the main issue is one of the pumps, be that fuel or steering, is faulty and drawing too much current. when tested on their own they seem OK but put them all in circuit and they are too much for the 30amp fuse.
Steve
mk1fan said:
Fuse isn't blowing now as above.
Not sure about common earth. Opposite ends of the car but I shall check them.
Definately an '87 87' relay. Also tried a second 'known to be correct and working' relay, same result.
What circuit breaker did you use?Not sure about common earth. Opposite ends of the car but I shall check them.
Definately an '87 87' relay. Also tried a second 'known to be correct and working' relay, same result.
Can you post a picture of the circuit breaker?
mk1fan said:
Mmm I was thinking along the lines of a circuit breaker not acting like a fuse and not going open circuit quick enough and then perhaps causing damage if there was a short somewhereAfter viewing the link you posted, I don't know anything about that type of circuit breaker but am guessing they go open circuit very quickly due to them being used for audio circuits
So is the car now running properly with the correct relay and fuse in place.
I recall from your other thread this started in December and it was drenched.. you even had an issue where the dash was lit with no key in the ignition.
Is this car garaged?
Do you think its con-incidental the weather has changed
I recall from your other thread this started in December and it was drenched.. you even had an issue where the dash was lit with no key in the ignition.
Is this car garaged?
Do you think its con-incidental the weather has changed
My post on Sunday is the current position. No the car isn't running with the relay in place. Relay is a Bosch item, right part number, right diagram on the relay, right pin arrangement. Doesn't run with the other known to be working relay either. Yes, that relay is the right relay too.
Car wasn't 'drenched' at Brands when it failled. No the car isn't garaged.
As per the other thread, the car was dried out prior to this thread.
Car wasn't 'drenched' at Brands when it failled. No the car isn't garaged.
As per the other thread, the car was dried out prior to this thread.
mk1fan said:
My post on Sunday is the current position. No the car isn't running with the relay in place. Relay is a Bosch item, right part number, right diagram on the relay, right pin arrangement. Doesn't run with the other known to be working relay either. Yes, that relay is the right relay too.
Car wasn't 'drenched' at Brands when it failled. No the car isn't garaged.
As per the other thread, the car was dried out prior to this thread.
Does the fuse still go then? Car wasn't 'drenched' at Brands when it failled. No the car isn't garaged.
As per the other thread, the car was dried out prior to this thread.
Gassing Station | General TVR Stuff & Gossip | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff