Helix clutch issues
Discussion
Just a heads up to anyone who has recently got a helix clutch. The latest batch won't work, apparently the plate thicknesses are wrong.
Thought it best to post it here as some people have already spent out on getting them fitted and refitted two or three times now with no joy and the supplier doesn't appear to be informing people even though they've known for over a week now.
My poor mechanic has had my car at his garage for weeks now,firstly waiting for availability and then fitting and removing the first one 3 times and then a replacement as well just to find out they have not been made to spec. Wonder who gets to pickup the tab for all that labour?
Thought it best to post it here as some people have already spent out on getting them fitted and refitted two or three times now with no joy and the supplier doesn't appear to be informing people even though they've known for over a week now.
My poor mechanic has had my car at his garage for weeks now,firstly waiting for availability and then fitting and removing the first one 3 times and then a replacement as well just to find out they have not been made to spec. Wonder who gets to pickup the tab for all that labour?
"Session" thankfully alerted me to this problem when I posted a topic about a new Helix clutch not disengaging. I don't want anyone else to go through the anguish and cost of the last 3 days that me and my mechanic have gone through wondering "have I done something wrong?" when in fact NO - TVR Parts Ltd have supplied you an expensive part that is WAY out of spec.
I can't begin to explain how hacked off I am that someone didn't pick up the phone and just say "measure the disc thickness before you put them in because we know we have a known problem". Did anyone? NO.
My advice. If you are about to put in a new Helix clutch, DON'T! Wait and check with TVR parts Ltd whether the disc thickness is correct before you do so. IMHO if anyone suggests "skimming the flywheel to make it fit" or such-like say "no". That approach would just be an expensive bodge to get around a fundamental problem.
It ought to fit the originally spec'ed flywheel. If you went to a shoe shop and you tried on some shoes that were too small, and they suggested you chopped off a few toes and take a potato peeler to the side of your foot and then said "now that we've done that - look your foot fits nice and snug mate, haven't we done a good job" - what you would say?!
I can't begin to explain how hacked off I am that someone didn't pick up the phone and just say "measure the disc thickness before you put them in because we know we have a known problem". Did anyone? NO.
My advice. If you are about to put in a new Helix clutch, DON'T! Wait and check with TVR parts Ltd whether the disc thickness is correct before you do so. IMHO if anyone suggests "skimming the flywheel to make it fit" or such-like say "no". That approach would just be an expensive bodge to get around a fundamental problem.
It ought to fit the originally spec'ed flywheel. If you went to a shoe shop and you tried on some shoes that were too small, and they suggested you chopped off a few toes and take a potato peeler to the side of your foot and then said "now that we've done that - look your foot fits nice and snug mate, haven't we done a good job" - what you would say?!
If you still have your old clutch you can always send it here http://www.clutch-specialists.co.uk
They will call you when they receive it and ask about use of your car and refurbish as needed with the best friction material to suit your use pattern, mine is Kevlar as it is better suited to mixed road and track use than the standard organic friction material.
It takes them about a week to turn an order round and cost around £250 a clutch IIRC.
They will call you when they receive it and ask about use of your car and refurbish as needed with the best friction material to suit your use pattern, mine is Kevlar as it is better suited to mixed road and track use than the standard organic friction material.
It takes them about a week to turn an order round and cost around £250 a clutch IIRC.
The supplier probably has it well written into their terms and conditions about no consequential loss, so wouldn't normally be liable for labour costs incurred ..
However if you know for certain that the faulty clutch plate issue was known to them at the time of sale I would have thought you would have a very good case for getting your labour costs back. If not it reflects very badly on them. Let us know how you get on, it could either look very good for them if they help out, or very bad if they don't.
However if you know for certain that the faulty clutch plate issue was known to them at the time of sale I would have thought you would have a very good case for getting your labour costs back. If not it reflects very badly on them. Let us know how you get on, it could either look very good for them if they help out, or very bad if they don't.
Mine had an issue with being difficult to engage 1st gear unless the car was moving slightly. I followed advice to abuse the clutch for a little while, and it's fine now. I did get the lightweight flywheel and slave upgrade at the same time.
The clutch isnt the only thing they are selling out of spec... its hilariously not funny given that everything comes plastered with reassuring badges of genuineness...
Lesson learned and buying elsewhere now, even if the competing website and order process is clunky/slow/more expensive.
The clutch isnt the only thing they are selling out of spec... its hilariously not funny given that everything comes plastered with reassuring badges of genuineness...
Lesson learned and buying elsewhere now, even if the competing website and order process is clunky/slow/more expensive.
I've been on the phone recently with TVR Parts and they've supplied me new plates and have agreed to cover the cost of the labour refitting the correct sized plates.
Out of interest what is the correct thickness of the plates in a Cerbera, I'll check them this evening to confirm that the new plates are actually correct?
Phone up Martin at TVR parts and demand that they send new plates and cover the labour cost of fitting them.
Michael
Out of interest what is the correct thickness of the plates in a Cerbera, I'll check them this evening to confirm that the new plates are actually correct?
Phone up Martin at TVR parts and demand that they send new plates and cover the labour cost of fitting them.
Michael
SergSC said:
Mine had an issue with being difficult to engage 1st gear unless the car was moving slightly. I followed advice to abuse the clutch for a little while, and it's fine now. I did get the lightweight flywheel and slave upgrade at the same time.
The clutch isnt the only thing they are selling out of spec... its hilariously not funny given that everything comes plastered with reassuring badges of genuineness...
Lesson learned and buying elsewhere now, even if the competing website and order process is clunky/slow/more expensive.
Tvr Heritage "NOT" stick to the proven and tested AP clutches The clutch isnt the only thing they are selling out of spec... its hilariously not funny given that everything comes plastered with reassuring badges of genuineness...
Lesson learned and buying elsewhere now, even if the competing website and order process is clunky/slow/more expensive.
Dom
msmith0592 said:
I've been on the phone recently with TVR Parts and they've supplied me new plates and have agreed to cover the cost of the labour refitting the correct sized plates.
Out of interest what is the correct thickness of the plates in a Cerbera, I'll check them this evening to confirm that the new plates are actually correct?
Phone up Martin at TVR parts and demand that they send new plates and cover the labour cost of fitting them.
Michael
Martin told my mechanic on Tuesday it will take 2 weeks. If I find out they have replacement plates and could have got me on the road sooner I will not be a happy man....Out of interest what is the correct thickness of the plates in a Cerbera, I'll check them this evening to confirm that the new plates are actually correct?
Phone up Martin at TVR parts and demand that they send new plates and cover the labour cost of fitting them.
Michael
Tvr Power said:
SergSC said:
Mine had an issue with being difficult to engage 1st gear unless the car was moving slightly. I followed advice to abuse the clutch for a little while, and it's fine now. I did get the lightweight flywheel and slave upgrade at the same time.
The clutch isnt the only thing they are selling out of spec... its hilariously not funny given that everything comes plastered with reassuring badges of genuineness...
Lesson learned and buying elsewhere now, even if the competing website and order process is clunky/slow/more expensive.
Tvr Heritage "NOT" stick to the proven and tested AP clutches The clutch isnt the only thing they are selling out of spec... its hilariously not funny given that everything comes plastered with reassuring badges of genuineness...
Lesson learned and buying elsewhere now, even if the competing website and order process is clunky/slow/more expensive.
Dom
t and last only a few k before the fingers break? How about the supposedly uprated AP with thicker stronger fingers that last a whole 14k? Yeah they sound really good.Session said:
Tvr Power said:
SergSC said:
Mine had an issue with being difficult to engage 1st gear unless the car was moving slightly. I followed advice to abuse the clutch for a little while, and it's fine now. I did get the lightweight flywheel and slave upgrade at the same time.
The clutch isnt the only thing they are selling out of spec... its hilariously not funny given that everything comes plastered with reassuring badges of genuineness...
Lesson learned and buying elsewhere now, even if the competing website and order process is clunky/slow/more expensive.
Tvr Heritage "NOT" stick to the proven and tested AP clutches The clutch isnt the only thing they are selling out of spec... its hilariously not funny given that everything comes plastered with reassuring badges of genuineness...
Lesson learned and buying elsewhere now, even if the competing website and order process is clunky/slow/more expensive.
Dom
t and last only a few k before the fingers break? How about the supposedly uprated AP with thicker stronger fingers that last a whole 14k? Yeah they sound really good.1 Riding the clutch
2 Incorrect slave cylinder heights, (most common cause of failure) machining tolerance on factory bell housing varies 3mm - 5mm, this is why fingers wear away prematurely
AP clutches are the best out there if fitted correctly. Mine's done 30k and still performing
Dom
Session said:
the tried and tested AP clutches which are st and last only a few k before the fingers break? How about the supposedly uprated AP with thicker stronger fingers that last a whole 14k? Yeah they sound really good.
My original clutch lasted 52K miles, when the seals went in the slave, but the fingers were very worn, I was surprised they hadn't broken first. t and last only a few k before the fingers break? How about the supposedly uprated AP with thicker stronger fingers that last a whole 14k? Yeah they sound really good.With several reports over the last few years of quality and longevity issues with AP clutches, I thought I'd try the Helix as an early adopter, someones got to and I needed a clutch. The decision was a new unknown against one that has had several reported issues.
I guess time will tell, but I'll keep everyone updated. Currently the new setup is significantly lighter than the original, so is gentler on my rebuilt left knee.
Byker28i said:
Tvr Power said:
AP clutches are the best out there if fitted correctly. Mine's done 30k and still performing
Dom
Dom, do you also have fitted your lightened flywheel? Any pros and cons as you see it?Dom
Dom
Tvr Power said:
Two reasons for the most common failures.
1 Riding the clutch
2 Incorrect slave cylinder heights, (most common cause of failure) machining tolerance on factory bell housing varies 3mm - 5mm, this is why fingers wear away prematurely
AP clutches are the best out there if fitted correctly. Mine's done 30k and still performing
Dom
Well it isn't a case of riding the clutch so it's apparently my mechanic fitting it incorrectly then? And every other TVR specialist fitting them incorrectly? I'll have a chat with my mechanic then...1 Riding the clutch
2 Incorrect slave cylinder heights, (most common cause of failure) machining tolerance on factory bell housing varies 3mm - 5mm, this is why fingers wear away prematurely
AP clutches are the best out there if fitted correctly. Mine's done 30k and still performing
Dom
Session said:
Tvr Power said:
Two reasons for the most common failures.
1 Riding the clutch
2 Incorrect slave cylinder heights, (most common cause of failure) machining tolerance on factory bell housing varies 3mm - 5mm, this is why fingers wear away prematurely
AP clutches are the best out there if fitted correctly. Mine's done 30k and still performing
Dom
Well it isn't a case of riding the clutch so it's apparently my mechanic fitting it incorrectly then? And every other TVR specialist fitting them incorrectly? I'll have a chat with my mechanic then...1 Riding the clutch
2 Incorrect slave cylinder heights, (most common cause of failure) machining tolerance on factory bell housing varies 3mm - 5mm, this is why fingers wear away prematurely
AP clutches are the best out there if fitted correctly. Mine's done 30k and still performing
Dom
Dom
Tvr Power said:
Two reasons for the most common failures.
1 Riding the clutch
2 Incorrect slave cylinder heights, (most common cause of failure) machining tolerance on factory bell housing varies 3mm - 5mm, this is why fingers wear away prematurely
AP clutches are the best out there if fitted correctly. Mine's done 30k and still performing
Dom
Huh... Hold on. Throw of the slave can be adjusted regardless of the bell housing machining, so you are saying that the clutches aren't installed properly finding the minimum amount of throw for complete actuation. Or are you alluding to the machining tolerance being so extreme in cases, that the fingers would be partially engaged. 1 Riding the clutch
2 Incorrect slave cylinder heights, (most common cause of failure) machining tolerance on factory bell housing varies 3mm - 5mm, this is why fingers wear away prematurely
AP clutches are the best out there if fitted correctly. Mine's done 30k and still performing
Dom
Or am I completely mis-interpreting your statement and your referring to the concentricity or alignment of the slave in relation to the clutch pack.
Presumably the rights to the AP clutches along with all the other parts. passed back to tvr-parts as they are the official TVR company parts supplier, and the AP clutch designed belonged to TVR. I know you had an exclusive deal with them. You need to be nice or they won't let you have any more
Edited by m4tti on Thursday 16th July 18:09
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