Origins of AJP 8...?
Discussion
My brother-in-law met a bloke who worked for Judd, who made F1 engines a while back, including the Yamaha badged one, I think. He reckons that that TVRs own engine, by which I assume he means the AJP V8, was derived in some part from the Judd F1 engine. Anyone know if this is true, in whole or part. I know that all the F1 engines are v10 these days, but that has not always been the case, so I suppose there could be something in it...
Jon H
Jon H
Al Melling was the original designer of the engine
and was an F1 engine designer.
As with all those kind of blokes they never really
say who they worked for.
It was a good initial design - engine & all ancillaries
to fit within a 22 inch cube - low centre of gravity
- hence only 2 values and not 4 per cylinder.
What did not help though is when they changed the spec
to a road rather than race engine.
TVR (Wheeler, Melling or Ravencroft) really did
not have the time/ money or know how to develop
a very reliable road engine of this sort.
Shame really as it is one of the best engines around
but needs plenty of attention every couple of years
to keep it going....
and was an F1 engine designer.
As with all those kind of blokes they never really
say who they worked for.
It was a good initial design - engine & all ancillaries
to fit within a 22 inch cube - low centre of gravity
- hence only 2 values and not 4 per cylinder.
What did not help though is when they changed the spec
to a road rather than race engine.
TVR (Wheeler, Melling or Ravencroft) really did
not have the time/ money or know how to develop
a very reliable road engine of this sort.
Shame really as it is one of the best engines around
but needs plenty of attention every couple of years
to keep it going....
mavrik, the actual engine is pretty sound. The things around the engine such as starter and fuel pump, suspension etc. are the things that _might_ cause problems on a Cerbera.
The AJP 8 Tuscan racers cain the crap out of them from one race to the next and seem to do all right.
Someone correct me if I am wrong.
The AJP 8 Tuscan racers cain the crap out of them from one race to the next and seem to do all right.
Someone correct me if I am wrong.
no you're right, the basic engine is a stormer. the worst part is the restrictive inlet tract - everything else seems virtually bullet proof. I've seen alot of cerberas over the years, and only seen two blow up first hand, one was a reposession jobbie and the bloke went out for one last blast before it was taken off him so i guess he wouldn't have cared too much about the car at that point!!
as you say, the engine is great .. so why are they (allegedly) dropping it?
as you say, the engine is great .. so why are they (allegedly) dropping it?
I thought the new TVR, the one that Christof has mentioned a few times is going to have the AJP8 in it but stroked/bored out to 5 litres?
PS I spotted there is a 4.7 liter Cerbera for sale. Are they the ones with 500BHP?
PPS Thats TVR's 500bhp
>> Edited by Ston on Monday 29th July 14:52
PS I spotted there is a 4.7 liter Cerbera for sale. Are they the ones with 500BHP?
PPS Thats TVR's 500bhp
>> Edited by Ston on Monday 29th July 14:52
quote:
the worst part is the restrictive inlet tract - everything else seems virtually bullet proof
Oddly enough, one of my clients casts certain alloy parts for TVR, including inlet ducts or throttle bodies or wangleflanges, I can't decide.... last time I was down there a guy wandered into the X-ray bay with several of these tubular widgets in his hands and I made some remark about another batch of qualty engineering on its way to become part of a great British sports car. His reply...
"No, mate. This is some sh*** TVR bits that are going back in the furnace"
Foundries eh, don't you just love 'em?
;-)
Ian
Engineering and building their own engine was always madness.
I once interviewed Gordon Murray, who remarked that the engine is a black box unit(referring to a road car).
This is the typical race attitude, and is just (or more ) as applicable to road vehicles.
So long as the engine makes the right power, has the right area under the torque curve, makes the right noise and has acceptable NVH in the intended application, then it's acceptable.
You don't need to design an engine from scratch to do this.
Buying in supercharged AJV8s or something similar might have been an alternative.
I once interviewed Gordon Murray, who remarked that the engine is a black box unit(referring to a road car).
This is the typical race attitude, and is just (or more ) as applicable to road vehicles.
So long as the engine makes the right power, has the right area under the torque curve, makes the right noise and has acceptable NVH in the intended application, then it's acceptable.
You don't need to design an engine from scratch to do this.
Buying in supercharged AJV8s or something similar might have been an alternative.
quote:Quite possibly so, Nick, but you obviously don't know Peter Wheeler.
Engineering and building their own engine was always madness.
When Peter aquired TVR back in 1982, his aim was to build a car that would compete with (and beat) Ferrari, Porsche etc as fast road cars, within the constraints of the size and capabilities of the factory. He felt that the constraints shouldn't and wouldn't preclude an in-house engine. However, the AJP8 proved far more expensive to build than envisaged, hence the cheaper 6 cylinder engine.
Why is it more expensive...? It's more compact than the 6 and is only 2vpc rather than 4.
quote:
Quite possibly so, Nick, but you obviously don't know Peter Wheeler.
When Peter aquired TVR back in 1982, his aim was to build a car that would compete with (and beat) Ferrari, Porsche etc as fast road cars, within the constraints of the size and capabilities of the factory. He felt that the constraints shouldn't and wouldn't preclude an in-house engine. However, the AJP8 proved far more expensive to build than envisaged, hence the cheaper 6 cylinder engine.
Terminator -> so why is the Tuscan S and Cerbera similar in price (unless you go crazy on the options)? If the engine is more expensive, why wouldn't they pass that onto the customer?
The reason they made the AJP8 is because of this
It is small and powerful. No other engine was avaliable to meet the spec. required. Granted a supercharger yank engine would be more powerful, but certainly not at 121kg.
>> Edited by Ston on Tuesday 30th July 12:54
The reason they made the AJP8 is because of this
quote:
An all alloy engine with its eight cylinders arranged in a 75 degree Vee, the Speed Eight engine has more torque in its various specifications than any other normally aspirated petrol engine of equivalent size and weight. At 121 kg, the engine is indeed lighter than the V8 F1 and F3000 engines with which it shares so many features.
It is small and powerful. No other engine was avaliable to meet the spec. required. Granted a supercharger yank engine would be more powerful, but certainly not at 121kg.
>> Edited by Ston on Tuesday 30th July 12:54
PS, if you get the chance to see the Tuscan racers, do it. It is only then that you realy appreciate what this engine can do in a lightweight car, they are awesomly quick.
If you strip out a Cerbera (the back seats are wasted weight IMO) and get Joolz's suspension, you will have a seriouse track day car.
If you strip out a Cerbera (the back seats are wasted weight IMO) and get Joolz's suspension, you will have a seriouse track day car.
Ston, I've no idea as to TVR's pricing policy. Both cars represent good value, but maybe a price comparison of a Cerbera Speed 6 and the 4.5 V8 may be more realistic.
I saw my first Tuscan Challenge race back in 1988 and watched both Peter Wheeler and John Ravenscroft run AJP8 engines in Tuscan race cars during the 1994 season (when everyone else was still using Rover engines). Having driven a Tuscan racer for a couple of laps at Donington a few years ago, I know EXACTLY how the engine performs in a lightweight body
I saw my first Tuscan Challenge race back in 1988 and watched both Peter Wheeler and John Ravenscroft run AJP8 engines in Tuscan race cars during the 1994 season (when everyone else was still using Rover engines). Having driven a Tuscan racer for a couple of laps at Donington a few years ago, I know EXACTLY how the engine performs in a lightweight body
Gassing Station | General TVR Stuff & Gossip | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff