Discussion
Hello everyone. I'm from the States,am in the process of buying an 85 tvr. Car has extremely low miles,13,500 which is both good and bad. The car does run but only when cold. As it warms up it begins to miss and finally dies,will not run again till it completely cools off. I am a auto technician-been doing it for 25 plus tears so I have worked on a lot of 2.8's as they were in a lot of fords however the fuel injection in the tvr is a bit new to me. I suspect it still uses the extra injector for cold operation? I'm going to look at/buy the car tomorrow so I just thought I might be able to pick a few better educated minds beforehand as to the possible cause of this issue. The current owner has told me it has new fuel in the tank and the fuel pressure is to spec. Other than that ...... I will post my findings after looking at the car. For any and all replies- Thank you.
If the engine is a Ford V6 it will probably be the same one as used in the TVR S1 (this is the first model in the TVR S Series). I think it is called the Essex engine but not too sure; it was also used in the Ford XR3i so either the S forum or the Ford XR club may have more info re the problem. Good luck with sorting it - what sort of TVR is it? Could be a Wedge?
Jim
Jim
Greetings from NC! I have a 2.8 TVR S with the same Bosch fuel injection, and have got know it quite well. There is a cold start injector, but that is only used for startup, so if it will start, it is probably working ok or not needed due to engine temp. There are 2 devices that keep a cold engine running - a warm-up regulator and auxiliary air device. The warm-up regulator reduces the control pressure on the metering head plunger so it will run a little richer, and the auxiliary air device increase the RPMs by allowing air to bypass the throttle plate when cold. Both are heated electrically to turn them 'off' after a period, so if the electrical side isn't working the engine should continue to run rich and with high RPMs at idle.
If you give it a bit of gas it should keep running regardless of these two devices, providing the fuel pressures are right. Yes, pressures - delivery pressure is one thing, but control pressure is critical. This is the pressure that pushes down on the metering head's plunger, keeping the air/fuel ratio in check. It's easy to check with the right tools, but not many people have them. It requires putting a gauge in the line that connects to the center of the metering head, and comparing with specs that can be found on the web.
It sounds most likely that there is a fuel delivery problem. I don't know about Tasmins, but on my car it needs more than 1/4 tank to keep a steady supply to the pump due to a high hose routing over the halfshaft.
One more thought - it could be the fuel pump relay. I think there is an unusual control relay used in US market cars. It probably gets the power from the cranking position of the key switch to get started, then needs to see the coil firing to keep the relay closed. Directly powering the pump would confirm this. And another thought - is the rev counter working? I think it is in series with the ignition amplifier, so when cranking you get power to the ignition amp, but for running there is no power if the rev counter is broken or disconnected.
Welcome to TVRs! This is all simple stuff typical of the period. Once sorted it will be very reliable.
If you give it a bit of gas it should keep running regardless of these two devices, providing the fuel pressures are right. Yes, pressures - delivery pressure is one thing, but control pressure is critical. This is the pressure that pushes down on the metering head's plunger, keeping the air/fuel ratio in check. It's easy to check with the right tools, but not many people have them. It requires putting a gauge in the line that connects to the center of the metering head, and comparing with specs that can be found on the web.
It sounds most likely that there is a fuel delivery problem. I don't know about Tasmins, but on my car it needs more than 1/4 tank to keep a steady supply to the pump due to a high hose routing over the halfshaft.
One more thought - it could be the fuel pump relay. I think there is an unusual control relay used in US market cars. It probably gets the power from the cranking position of the key switch to get started, then needs to see the coil firing to keep the relay closed. Directly powering the pump would confirm this. And another thought - is the rev counter working? I think it is in series with the ignition amplifier, so when cranking you get power to the ignition amp, but for running there is no power if the rev counter is broken or disconnected.
Welcome to TVRs! This is all simple stuff typical of the period. Once sorted it will be very reliable.
One of these could be a few dollars well spent?
Don't think the XR3i ever had a V6 ?
jimed said:
If the engine is a Ford V6 it will probably be the same one as used in the TVR S1 (this is the first model in the TVR S Series). I think it is called the Essex engine but not too sure; it was also used in the Ford XR3i so either the S forum or the Ford XR club may have more info re the problem. Good luck with sorting it - what sort of TVR is it? Could be a Wedge?
Jim
It's called the "Cologne" V6, Essex was the earlier V6 used in 3000M and Taimar.Jim
Don't think the XR3i ever had a V6 ?
Thank you all for the replies.I had to go in to work so seeing the car did not work. If it's still for sale I will go have a look tomorrow. Its a 280i. Looks like a wedge,it's a convertible and the interior is out of the car supposedly for a carpet change. Anyway thanks for the info .
hi deltaguy, i have a v6 cologne engined tasmin / wedge from 1982. i had the exact same problems as you when i got it. turned out to be a tear in an air hose. check all your hoses and pipes. i spent ages checking everything else only for it to be a little hole letting too much air in.
check out the wedge forum, the guys there are a great help as will the tvrcc of north america be.
good luck mate.
marcus
check out the wedge forum, the guys there are a great help as will the tvrcc of north america be.
good luck mate.
marcus
You know I was thinking the same thing about the hose. I've fixed SO many cars over the years with cracked and split intake hoses. Maf vaf sensors just HATE not knowing what's going on. By the way where on the site or on the web can I go to find a carpet for this car? As always thank all of you for the super fast and super useful replies. This is one of the best-if not the best-web sites I have ever belonged to as far as helpfulness of the members and speed of replies. I will get back to you all tomorrow. I'm going to finally see the car tonight.
Well I just saw the car. Body is very nice with an issue in the front just in front of the hood. Some deep gouges. The exhaust is completely rusted away,the radius arm bushings are not there anymore,just fell off, The car does run when cold,revs up and everything when it warms up it loads the car with excess fuel and dies. Then when it's completely cooled off again it runs ok. As I expected this is the same 2.8 I used to work on in the ford ranger and ford bronco II They had electronic injection. I'm thinking of converting to electronic. Parts are cheap and the install should not be a big deal as I have all the wiring diagrams and I am a wiz at old ford fuel injection. I hear that some folks even go carburetor? Anyone here done that? Oh the interior is nice but the carpet like the exhaust just fell apart and was removed. SO this is a very nice project car. The frame is just like looking at a brand new vehicle. Are caliper rebuilding kits available for this car?I would expect a hydraulic rebuild will be needed,the pads and rotors are new as the car has 13k on it. Sorry for the long winded post.How much do you folks figure it's worth in U S money? Oh 1 last thing,it has the super ugly U.S front bumper,is there a kit one car buy to retrofit a European front bumper? Ok I'm done. Thanks to all that have replied so far.
re bumpers.
my 280i was lhd usa spec and had the same bumpers. i changed to 350i s2 on the front, although its designed to take a uk number plate.
(swapped to rhd as well)
http://www.b-link.co.uk/tet/tasmin-350i-series2.ph...
trevor also does others..
my 280i was lhd usa spec and had the same bumpers. i changed to 350i s2 on the front, although its designed to take a uk number plate.
(swapped to rhd as well)
http://www.b-link.co.uk/tet/tasmin-350i-series2.ph...
trevor also does others..
74deltaguy said:
It's a very light shade of green ,kindof a silver green. It's been in ct for a LONG time.
I've also got an 84 car awaiting restoration that sounds very similar. inc colour.. this was laid up many years ago when the driver was done for DD ( DUI) with 18k km on the clock.. never went back on the road..interior damaged now due to water as roof went. exhaust rotten, but chassis perfect. even has pas
If i were you and not worried about originality I hear the 302 slots in nicely.. to replace the v6.
on the race car we swapped the mechanical fi for a single twin choke carb. there is a ford manifold that fits
74deltaguy said:
How much do you folks figure it's worth in U S money?
Not a lot. There's one for $2000 in AZ and a V8 (Mustang) conversion for $3600 in MD. How much is the one on CT?http://tvrccna.org/tvrccna.pl?page=classifieds
Graham said:
i had a similar issue on my 85 280i and it was the warm up regulator, not a cheap bit of kit to replace.
if its been stood for a while i'd get the injectors checked out too, they tend to rust internally and clog
Yes, possibly a warm up regulator issue. Also check there is a feed to the unit. If not as the car warms up it will choke up and cut out. Early cars had a plug on the distributor head which is connected to a couple of relays for the system. When the car cuts out, if you unplug it with the ignition on you should hear the pump run. If not it's likely to be a relay or the pump itself. If you can still hear the pump running when you switch on the ignition (with the plug reconnected) check that the air flap is in its upmost position, as this is what triggers the cut-out switch. You can also check operation of the cut-out switch with a multimeter (continuity or resistance to show open circuit)if its been stood for a while i'd get the injectors checked out too, they tend to rust internally and clog
Also check the ignition module, usually when they fail the car just doesn't start, but sometimes they go open circuit when warm and you loose spark. Again, check for spark as soon as the engine cuts out to rule out the ignition system being the cause.
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