RE: DEALERS HAVING POST REMOVED
Discussion
Well howabout sorting your own www site and link to it from here??? that way freedom of speech continues?
Makes you wonder though, why dealers are running scared of critisism & factual critisisms from people on the paying side of the counter?
oh btw.....I am the firestarter, well reigniter I guess
Makes you wonder though, why dealers are running scared of critisism & factual critisisms from people on the paying side of the counter?
oh btw.....I am the firestarter, well reigniter I guess
I started a post in the Chimy forum about TVR Gear, basically saying their delivery times were a joke. The MD of the company had the bottle and the good business sense to reply, saying that they were aware of the problems, he was sorry and things would improve. So I take my hat off to him.
However dealers offering shit service, should not start kicking up just because they have been named and shamed, they should tackle the cause IE their appaling bloody service. TVR owners have been treated like mugs by some garages for way to long, its bad enough theat most of the cars fall to bits, without rubbing it in.
I do understand that the owners off this site are in a tough position and cannot let potentially libelous information be posted. My understanding of Libel however is that the information has to be un-true.
However dealers offering shit service, should not start kicking up just because they have been named and shamed, they should tackle the cause IE their appaling bloody service. TVR owners have been treated like mugs by some garages for way to long, its bad enough theat most of the cars fall to bits, without rubbing it in.
I do understand that the owners off this site are in a tough position and cannot let potentially libelous information be posted. My understanding of Libel however is that the information has to be un-true.
my logic is that WE are the people who care about the marque etc, and that our opinions count. they need to learn from what is being said about them, then take it away and learn by it, make improvements etc....this forum is not about slagging off, more like constructive criticism
...but if the truth hurts, then do something about it!!! not go running to www site admins to have messages / threads removed
>> Edited by k77-widow maker on Thursday 1st July 00:06
...but if the truth hurts, then do something about it!!! not go running to www site admins to have messages / threads removed
>> Edited by k77-widow maker on Thursday 1st July 00:06
jamesuk28 said:
I started a post in the Chimy forum about TVR Gear, basically saying their delivery times were a joke. The MD of the company had the bottle and the good business sense to reply, saying that they were aware of the problems, he was sorry and things would improve. So I take my hat off to him.
However dealers offering shit service, should not start kicking up just because they have been named and shamed, they should tackle the cause IE their appaling bloody service. TVR owners have been treated like mugs by some garages for way to long, its bad enough theat most of the cars fall to bits, without rubbing it in
I do understand that the owners off this site are in a tough position and cannot let potentially libelous information be posted. My understanding of Libel however is that the information has to be un-true.
Well said Sir!!!!!
Dave
It is not all one way. Just like there are good and bad dealers etc, there are also good and bad owners out there as well. Of course the owners never admit to this as it is easier to blame the dealer who is simply a legal mugger/pirate....
Ted has very sensible rules on this for very good reasons. Often there are two sides to every story and more importantly the truth is somewhere in between. Some of the antics I have seen owners get upto include:
Like the guys who bring back bits and ask for a refund because they don't need them and all they have done is brought back the original broken bits....
Like the guys that get told this needs sorting out but don't get the work done and then complain when it gets worse and something breaks... Then try and claim under warrenty.
Like the guys that forget to pick up their cars and don't pay for a couple of months...
Like the guys that swap bits over with their mate and then try and get bits replaced. It wasn't like that when I brought it here...
Ted has very sensible rules on this for very good reasons. Often there are two sides to every story and more importantly the truth is somewhere in between. Some of the antics I have seen owners get upto include:
Like the guys who bring back bits and ask for a refund because they don't need them and all they have done is brought back the original broken bits....
Like the guys that get told this needs sorting out but don't get the work done and then complain when it gets worse and something breaks... Then try and claim under warrenty.
Like the guys that forget to pick up their cars and don't pay for a couple of months...
Like the guys that swap bits over with their mate and then try and get bits replaced. It wasn't like that when I brought it here...
shpub said:
It is not all one way. Just like there are good and bad dealers etc, there are also good and bad owners out there as well. Of course the owners never admit to this as it is easier to blame the dealer who is simply a legal mugger/pirate....
Ted has very sensible rules on this for very good reasons. Often there are two sides to every story and more importantly the truth is somewhere in between. Some of the antics I have seen owners get upto include:
Like the guys who bring back bits and ask for a refund because they don't need them and all they have done is brought back the original broken bits....
Like the guys that get told this needs sorting out but don't get the work done and then complain when it gets worse and something breaks... Then try and claim under warrenty.
Like the guys that forget to pick up their cars and don't pay for a couple of months...
Like the guys that swap bits over with their mate and then try and get bits replaced. It wasn't like that when I brought it here...
lmao .. how true that is .. fortunately in TVR circles it's few and far between, but if you're in business long enough you get to see some real eye-opening stuff ..
jamesuk28 said:
My understanding of Libel however is that the information has to be un-true.
In in the absence of a PH police force to investigate allegations it's simpler to simply ask people to resolve disputes offline rather than have to make a judgement call on unreasonable customer vs unreasonable dealership.
PetrolTed said:
My understanding of Libel however is that the information has to be un-true.
In in the absence of a PH police force to investigate allegations it's simpler to simply ask people to resolve disputes offline rather than have to make a judgement call on unreasonable customer vs unreasonable dealership.
maybe streetcop would like to take that role.
oh pleeeease dont go streetcop
jamesuk28 said:
My understanding of Libel however is that the information has to be un-true.
I'm not even sure that it's libel law that is at issue. I'm certain that (some time ago) while reading up on something else, I read that a company can take someone to court if they can be demonstrated to have damaged their business by something they have said or published, be it true or untrue. I seem to think that it was designed to stop people from maliciously damaging a competitor's business for commercial gain, but it could certainly be invoked against a 'naming and shaming' website, and the people who have posted on it. I may be wrong, but I do remember having a 'bugger me' moment when I read it.
Trouble is anyway that even if you recount a story and it's completely objective and true, that may not be an accurate reflection of the whole of their business, and certainly doesn't guarantee that the next person would have the same experience.
And shpub's right, there are some really crap customers out there - I spend a lot of time talking to the suppliers at TVR and PH events. Would people here be all in favour of the dealers naming everyone who'd ordered specially built stuff then cancelled after it's been made, paid late, not paid at all, had 3 hours free advice and then bought somewhere else because it was £5 (oh yes, £5!) cheaper, effed and blinded at a receptionist until they made her cry because they couldn't get what they wanted (wouldn't you like to know which PHer that was?
) etc etc etc? I very much doubt it. If that sort of thing went on, some people would find it very difficult indeed to get their cars serviced anywhere! Ted's not daft, why not just trust that the rules he's put in place are there for a good reason, to protect everyone?
>> Edited by rude girl on Thursday 1st July 09:01
The other side of the coin is that this is a forum for car enthusiasts to support each other with advice and information. Sometimes that advice would be "dont use such-and-such a business" and that advice could save a lot of ph-ers a lot of money / time / effort / heartache. It would be interesting to hear how best to carry out this apparantly useful function, without comprimising Pistonheads generally.
While we are looking at the other sides of coins, rudegirl, i guess you have heard only one side of those stories you are repeating, and the truth lies somewhere in the middle...
And in case anyone knows which independant i use and misinterprets this, i should say they are excellent and i would reccomend them to anyone!
While we are looking at the other sides of coins, rudegirl, i guess you have heard only one side of those stories you are repeating, and the truth lies somewhere in the middle...
And in case anyone knows which independant i use and misinterprets this, i should say they are excellent and i would reccomend them to anyone!
But one must not forget the dealer who are blatently dis honest, because there are some out there. I was a good customer at one, i bought 4 cars off them, serviced it there etc etc, the last one i bought cash with no p-ex, over the phone because i thought i could trust them, they told me it had 2 previous owners, when i received the reg doc, i found it had 5 previous owners. second a previous car i bought from them blew the engine, i admit i was driving it hard but they forgot to tell me they lent it to a magasine for a photo shoot against a bike!
Though i have never shamed them, Imagine what they might do to others!
Though i have never shamed them, Imagine what they might do to others!
Like i said before why dont people before using a said dealer just put a post up asking for others thoughts on said dealer, and ask to be emailed about any bad expierences. All above board for PH posting rules and everyones happy.
Just cos you cant post the bad expierences doesnt mean you cant get the info.
BB
Just cos you cant post the bad expierences doesnt mean you cant get the info.
BB
Ballistic Banana said:
Like i said before why dont people before using a said dealer just put a post up asking for others thoughts on said dealer, and ask to be emailed about any bad expierences. All above board for PH posting rules and everyones happy.
Just cos you cant post the bad expierences doesnt mean you cant get the info.
BB
I agree BB
What about having a section that lists all the dealers and independents, where people can post only good comments.
You see where I'm coming from?
I know it wouldn't be entirely fair (not everyone will take the time and effort to recount their good experiences) but if you spotted a dealer with a blank score sheet, it might make you think twice.....
I know people do post about good service etc. but a specific area would mean you could get the info at a glance.
Ted?
You see where I'm coming from?
I know it wouldn't be entirely fair (not everyone will take the time and effort to recount their good experiences) but if you spotted a dealer with a blank score sheet, it might make you think twice.....
I know people do post about good service etc. but a specific area would mean you could get the info at a glance.
Ted?
-HOW ABOUT A FORUM JUST FOR THE GREAT DEALERS?- you say.
Well I started a post earlier this week about Silverstone TVR, because their service has been bloody fantastic.
However I can forsee that if such a topic was started certain dealers may abuse the system by posting about themselves, then it just turns into a complete farse.
In reply to earlier comments about bad customers, I fully except that their are some shady geezers among us, but to be fair they are in the minority, and dealers are usually well paid for the work that is carried out. Blatant bad service or dishonest activity (had 2 owners when really 5) is not on, and other PH'ers should be warned about them.
Only the bad dealers will be complaining about any naming and shaming policy. Why in a million years if you had received good service etc would you post otherwise?
Any PH'er blatantly abusing the system should have the book thrown at them, equally true for bad dealers as well
Well I started a post earlier this week about Silverstone TVR, because their service has been bloody fantastic.
However I can forsee that if such a topic was started certain dealers may abuse the system by posting about themselves, then it just turns into a complete farse.
In reply to earlier comments about bad customers, I fully except that their are some shady geezers among us, but to be fair they are in the minority, and dealers are usually well paid for the work that is carried out. Blatant bad service or dishonest activity (had 2 owners when really 5) is not on, and other PH'ers should be warned about them.
Only the bad dealers will be complaining about any naming and shaming policy. Why in a million years if you had received good service etc would you post otherwise?
Any PH'er blatantly abusing the system should have the book thrown at them, equally true for bad dealers as well
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