Plumbing direction in a Duratec V6 - noobie question
Discussion
I'm now sorting out the water plumbing on my 2.5 V6 Duratec and need to know which direction the water flows around the system. After removing the water pump (which is being replaced with an electric one) I am left with two hoses on the engine - one dives into the block and the other comes from a manifold which it shares with heater outlet (or is it inlet?) and two water temperature sender units.
My question is which is the inlet and which is the outlet?
My question is which is the inlet and which is the outlet?
From what you've described, I expect that the pump feeds water into the block, it flows internally through the block and up into the head, there's a manifold that collects the water out of the head and supplies the heater and bypass and (via the stat) the radiator. There should be a couple of degas lines etc too. That would be a fairly conventional setup. You should be able to confirm this by looking at how the old mechanical pump was plumbed in.
>> Edited by GreenV8S on Friday 23 December 00:59
>> Edited by GreenV8S on Friday 23 December 00:59
That's the problem you see
The old mechanical pump has one output & two inputs (or outputs depending on flow direction) connections - one 15mm and another 32mm. The 15mm went to the oil cooler (around the oil filter assembly) and the 32mm went to ??.... I assume the rad hose but I believe it might have gone though an in-line thermostat first.
With me so far?
The other hose of the pump (output?) dives into the block and then emerges on the manifold which has 15mm & 32mm outlets along with the sender units.
I read somewhere that the rad return is connected to the oil cooler, which then feeds to the pump.This might have been a shared flow but I havent got access to a complete car for reference. I am trying to figure out the flow direction to insert an electric pump soooooo.......
Do I insert the pump outlet in the block hose and connect the 15mm to the heater feed via the oil cooler, the heater return to the rad return hose at the rad end?
Does it matter about flow direction? I am guessing that it does.
>> Edited by RazMan on Saturday 24th December 22:21
The old mechanical pump has one output & two inputs (or outputs depending on flow direction) connections - one 15mm and another 32mm. The 15mm went to the oil cooler (around the oil filter assembly) and the 32mm went to ??.... I assume the rad hose but I believe it might have gone though an in-line thermostat first.
With me so far?
The other hose of the pump (output?) dives into the block and then emerges on the manifold which has 15mm & 32mm outlets along with the sender units.
I read somewhere that the rad return is connected to the oil cooler, which then feeds to the pump.This might have been a shared flow but I havent got access to a complete car for reference. I am trying to figure out the flow direction to insert an electric pump soooooo.......
Do I insert the pump outlet in the block hose and connect the 15mm to the heater feed via the oil cooler, the heater return to the rad return hose at the rad end?
Does it matter about flow direction? I am guessing that it does.
>> Edited by RazMan on Saturday 24th December 22:21
RazMan said:
The old mechanical pump has one output & two inputs (or outputs depending on flow direction) connections - one 15mm and another 32mm. The 15mm went to the oil cooler (around the oil filter assembly) and the 32mm went to ??.... I assume the rad hose but I believe it might have gone though an in-line thermostat first.
With me so far?
The other hose of the pump (output?) dives into the block and then emerges on the manifold which has 15mm & 32mm outlets along with the sender units.
Yes it is important that the water flows the right way!
That circuit sounds reasonably conventional, with several inlets to the pump and one outlet (to the block), one return from the heads which is split to feed the top hose, heater, bypass etc.
If you still have the old mechanical pump you can tell which way it pumps. Normally if you look at a pump which mounts to the engine you can see the back of the impellor on one side, this is the outlet side. You can also look at the distance of each water way from the drive shaft. The pump inlet is relatively close to the input shaft, the outlets are further away from it. Hopefully this will give you a couple of clues to the direction of flow, and if they agree with each other then you have your answer.
>> Edited by GreenV8S on Thursday 29th December 16:53
>> Edited by GreenV8S on Thursday 29th December 16:57
Hi Paul,
Thanks for the offer mate - I think I just need to figure out the direction of the flow from the water pump.
Here's a couple of pics with the water pump that might help explain.
Now I THINK it goes like this...
1. Feed to water pump from bottom hose
2. To top hose
3. To ????
4. Feed from oil cooler to ?
I am not sure if number 3 goes to the heater or through the oil cooler first. Can you tell me if these are connected Paul?
>> Edited by RazMan on Thursday 29th December 17:26
Thanks for the offer mate - I think I just need to figure out the direction of the flow from the water pump.
Here's a couple of pics with the water pump that might help explain.
Now I THINK it goes like this...
1. Feed to water pump from bottom hose
2. To top hose
3. To ????
4. Feed from oil cooler to ?
I am not sure if number 3 goes to the heater or through the oil cooler first. Can you tell me if these are connected Paul?
>> Edited by RazMan on Thursday 29th December 17:26
GreenV8S said:
That circuit sounds reasonably conventional, with several inlets to the pump and one outlet (to the block), one return from the heads which is split to feed the top hose, heater, bypass etc.
I think the fog is starting to clear now
The pump has two outlets, splitting the flow between the block and oil cooler. After flowing through the engine, it comes out and splits between the top hose and heater. The heater return then presumeably returns to the bottom hose.
Where does the oil cooler output connect to though?
Hi,
I'm going to head up to my workshop later to make sure but....
No.3 goes to the heater
What you are missing is the pipe that normally feeds across the front of the engine to the other side of the rad as well as the thermostat housing, this I think comes off No.2 and either goes back into the pump of round the rad depending on temp.. The piping is a bit weird around this bit, although No.4 from the oil cooler connects back into the rad hose. I'll take some pics later and post them up.
If it helps the water pump goes clockwise as seen in the 1st pic.
Paul
I'm going to head up to my workshop later to make sure but....
No.3 goes to the heater
What you are missing is the pipe that normally feeds across the front of the engine to the other side of the rad as well as the thermostat housing, this I think comes off No.2 and either goes back into the pump of round the rad depending on temp.. The piping is a bit weird around this bit, although No.4 from the oil cooler connects back into the rad hose. I'll take some pics later and post them up.
If it helps the water pump goes clockwise as seen in the 1st pic.
Paul
Thats great Paul. I didn't get the thermostat housing with the engine so a picture of yours will certainly help. 
I am hoping to plumb in the oil cooler with my basic setup which only consists of engine, rad & heater - but the rad is 2 metres away from the engine connected by alloy pipes so I am trying to keep it as simple as possible.
I am hoping to plumb in the oil cooler with my basic setup which only consists of engine, rad & heater - but the rad is 2 metres away from the engine connected by alloy pipes so I am trying to keep it as simple as possible.
Ok, here's some pics to help you, No.3 definitely goes to the heater and the other connection from the oil cooler (no.4) also goes to the heater completing the heater loop. The thermostat works as a bypass loop to the rad when it opens, so you'll definitely need to get the thermostat housing and the associated pipework.
This first pic shows the cross pipe on the pulley end of the engine, the large hose at the bottom goes to the rad, the other one pointing away goes to the expansion bottle. There is also a small pipe that connect into the expansion bottle seen in pic 2 below.
This is from the flywheel end showing the cross pipe feed from the thermostat housing and the small hose to the expansion bottle.
This is the thermostat housing showing the 3 connections, the water pump is on the lower left.
In this pic the thermostat housing can be seen with the 2nd rad hose and connection back into the block.
Here I've added the pipe from the oil cooler which goes to the heater.
I hope this helps you sort your cooling out. I know you mentioned about an electric cooling pump, but from experience and from knowing about many other V6 duratec engine failures, the one thing that kills these engines is overheating. I had a head gasket go because the plastic impellor failed, my advice is to sacrifice the couple of horsepower an electric one may give and get the metal impellor pump and leave it standard. Then spend the money on something else that will give the power back, like a bigger MAF or throttle body. I'd love to see the car when it's done!!
Paul
This first pic shows the cross pipe on the pulley end of the engine, the large hose at the bottom goes to the rad, the other one pointing away goes to the expansion bottle. There is also a small pipe that connect into the expansion bottle seen in pic 2 below.
This is from the flywheel end showing the cross pipe feed from the thermostat housing and the small hose to the expansion bottle.
This is the thermostat housing showing the 3 connections, the water pump is on the lower left.
In this pic the thermostat housing can be seen with the 2nd rad hose and connection back into the block.
Here I've added the pipe from the oil cooler which goes to the heater.
I hope this helps you sort your cooling out. I know you mentioned about an electric cooling pump, but from experience and from knowing about many other V6 duratec engine failures, the one thing that kills these engines is overheating. I had a head gasket go because the plastic impellor failed, my advice is to sacrifice the couple of horsepower an electric one may give and get the metal impellor pump and leave it standard. Then spend the money on something else that will give the power back, like a bigger MAF or throttle body. I'd love to see the car when it's done!!
Paul
Hi again Paul,
Thanks for posting the pics and taking the time to explain things - much appreciated.
The hose layout is more complex than I thought! Is it ok if I have a peek at your engine to help me clarify things?
I've emailed you with details.
Meanwhile I will try and draw a schematic diagram
Regarding the electric pump, I know of at least three race cars (with tuned 3 litre engine) using the Davies Craig pumps with excellent results. The impeller problem is only one reason why I went electric. Using the engine in a middy means that the standard pump is in a rather awkward position and the conversion makes the hoses easier to sort out () Also the pump speed controller is dependent on engine heat and not engine speed so it is able to react in a more intelligent way, therefore cooling more efficiently. In theory this means that the thermostat can also be removed, although the heater might not be as efficient like that.
Thanks for posting the pics and taking the time to explain things - much appreciated.
The hose layout is more complex than I thought! Is it ok if I have a peek at your engine to help me clarify things?
I've emailed you with details.
Meanwhile I will try and draw a schematic diagram
Regarding the electric pump, I know of at least three race cars (with tuned 3 litre engine) using the Davies Craig pumps with excellent results. The impeller problem is only one reason why I went electric. Using the engine in a middy means that the standard pump is in a rather awkward position and the conversion makes the hoses easier to sort out (
) Also the pump speed controller is dependent on engine heat and not engine speed so it is able to react in a more intelligent way, therefore cooling more efficiently. In theory this means that the thermostat can also be removed, although the heater might not be as efficient like that.After seeing your engine in the flesh it all becomes clear and my plumbing will look something like this.
The oil cooler will have to share with the heater - the Mondeo setup has permanent heat through the matrix which is no good for my car (I'll just cook!) so I will insert a solenoid water valve in the heater feed and still allow the oil cooler to do its job.
Not as simple as I would like but at least the engine cooling should be ok.
Thanks for letting me have a peek Paul - much appreciated
>> Edited by RazMan on Friday 30th December 16:39
The oil cooler will have to share with the heater - the Mondeo setup has permanent heat through the matrix which is no good for my car (I'll just cook!) so I will insert a solenoid water valve in the heater feed and still allow the oil cooler to do its job.
Not as simple as I would like but at least the engine cooling should be ok.
Thanks for letting me have a peek Paul - much appreciated
>> Edited by RazMan on Friday 30th December 16:39
Gassing Station | Ford | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff