LPG Conversion to a Focus...worth it??
Discussion
Lookin at saving some money on my weekly commute to work. Of course T2000 et al would say use Public Transport. Impossible. First Bus, 0800, with 2 changes, I wouldn't get to work til at least 09.45, First Train is 06.30, would get me to work about half an hour later. I regularly start work before 06.30.
Usually spend about £25 a week. But I can see that going up before the years out, 6 months ago I was putting in £20 and getting over half a tank, now £25 gets me just half a tank!
This weekend I was mainly driving about the Cairngorms, £50 got me from Ayrshire to Aviemore, around the cairngorms for 3 days then down to Fort William. Just. Noticed when I filled up in FW that Unleaded was 94.9p but Autogas was 42.9p. That would mean double the fuel for the same money! I like that idea.
So, here are the questions.
How much is a conversion? I know that tanks can go in the boot, plenty of room in there.
How does LPG work? Is this the stuff that mixes with the fuel or am I thinking of something else?
Will I improve my MPG too or do I just benefit from reduced fuel costs?
I heard/read somewhere that the government were offering grants for people to have an LPG conversion, does this still apply?
TIA
Stuart.
Usually spend about £25 a week. But I can see that going up before the years out, 6 months ago I was putting in £20 and getting over half a tank, now £25 gets me just half a tank!
This weekend I was mainly driving about the Cairngorms, £50 got me from Ayrshire to Aviemore, around the cairngorms for 3 days then down to Fort William. Just. Noticed when I filled up in FW that Unleaded was 94.9p but Autogas was 42.9p. That would mean double the fuel for the same money! I like that idea.
So, here are the questions.
How much is a conversion? I know that tanks can go in the boot, plenty of room in there.
How does LPG work? Is this the stuff that mixes with the fuel or am I thinking of something else?
Will I improve my MPG too or do I just benefit from reduced fuel costs?
I heard/read somewhere that the government were offering grants for people to have an LPG conversion, does this still apply?
TIA
Stuart.
I was looking at this for my ST200. You can get a kit for about £200 to fit yourself if you're a competant mechanic or a brave man (I'm neither 
). The fully fitted install was £2000. Like you I've got the choice of driving for about 20 minutes to work or about 2 hours on public transport and figured I'd need to drive for not far off two years to get the benefit of the LPG. It may be cynical, but the more people that start using LPG the higher the tax will become... then the more distance you'll have to drive to recover the fitting cost etc
). The fully fitted install was £2000. Like you I've got the choice of driving for about 20 minutes to work or about 2 hours on public transport and figured I'd need to drive for not far off two years to get the benefit of the LPG. It may be cynical, but the more people that start using LPG the higher the tax will become... then the more distance you'll have to drive to recover the fitting cost etc cj_eds said:
It may be cynical, but the more people that start using LPG the higher the tax will become... then the more distance you'll have to drive to recover the fitting cost etc
Cynical maybe and yes the tax will increase but is Petrol going to get any cheaper???
I don't think so,
That means you'll be saving money from now on if you stick to LPG.
Not hard to see the benefits of using LPG,using LPG on my everyday car saves me nearly £50 a week,that £50 is better in my pocket than Mr Browns.
I found a company that quoted me £950 to have this fitted to my 2001 1.6 ford focus, which is quite a bit cheaper than most places.
Still not sure whether I want to go ahead with it. My main problem is how long do I want to keep my car and whether its going to justify its value as I spend about £25-£30 a week on fuel, it'd take about 1.5 years to pay off the conversion before I start saving. Also, I don't think its going to add much more value to my car.
Still not sure whether I want to go ahead with it. My main problem is how long do I want to keep my car and whether its going to justify its value as I spend about £25-£30 a week on fuel, it'd take about 1.5 years to pay off the conversion before I start saving. Also, I don't think its going to add much more value to my car.
nighthawk said:
LPG is a fine choice if you want engine problems.
the heads fitted from the factory for LPG equipped vehicles suffer valve seat regression, so a non LPG head isn't likely to last long if you do decent length journeys.
do your research and spend wisely.
the heads fitted from the factory for LPG equipped vehicles suffer valve seat regression, so a non LPG head isn't likely to last long if you do decent length journeys.
do your research and spend wisely.
is this down to a poor installation or the properties of LPG? it seems like some cars don't suffer from any valve seat regression and some do. are Ford more prone to it than other makes?
I have read somewhere that the Zetec engine suffers from soft valve seats. and this may also apply to the duratec v6 engine as well. but i can't find one case of jag v6 engine that has suffered from valve seat regression.
there doesn't seem to be any real information about which cars suffer from this and which don't.
there doesn't seem to be any real information about which cars suffer from this and which don't.
nighthawk said:
LPG is a fine choice if you want engine problems.
the heads fitted from the factory for LPG equipped vehicles suffer valve seat regression, so a non LPG head isn't likely to last long if you do decent length journeys.
do your research and spend wisely.
the heads fitted from the factory for LPG equipped vehicles suffer valve seat regression, so a non LPG head isn't likely to last long if you do decent length journeys.
do your research and spend wisely.
nighthawk your dead right m8 ive seen it happen on these,i just dont think its worth it personaly,but if you do convert it make sure you put the lube system on or as nighthawk said your valves will make there way up the ports LOL.
I think my mk2 LPG has just suffered from this. Was converted a year ago, done just over 20000 miles. No compresion in 2 cylinders now.
Im in the process of taking the head off, but I'm fairly sure its the valve seats.
Does anyone know how to change the seats and will I need any special tools?
Cheers,
Stu
(p.s wouldnt go LPG again, perhaps Diesel car on Veggie Oil ;-) )
Im in the process of taking the head off, but I'm fairly sure its the valve seats.
Does anyone know how to change the seats and will I need any special tools?
Cheers,
Stu
(p.s wouldnt go LPG again, perhaps Diesel car on Veggie Oil ;-) )
I had my Skoda Octavia vRS(Modified)converted to LPG with 50K miles on the clock,i have now covered 60K miles with the conversion with no problems at all.
Last service i had the cylinders checked for compression and they are all fine.
So as said earlier,do your research and then you can make an informed decision.
I guess some engines are more at risk to problems than others.
Last service i had the cylinders checked for compression and they are all fine.
So as said earlier,do your research and then you can make an informed decision.
I guess some engines are more at risk to problems than others.
Walk away from LPG - unless you have seen a vehicle like yours that has run many 10's of thousands of miles trouble free. I suspect there aren't many (Skoda Octavia?) - or even any.
I converted my 2004 Ford Ka to LPG, cost close to £2000, at mileage 25,000. At 60,000 miles compression was low in cylinder 2, diagnosed severe valve recession. Put in new engine and now, at 90,000 compression is very low in cylinder no 4 when cold, and a little low when hot. Haven't taken the head off yet but suspect the same problem.
Early symptons are misfire when cold, running fine when hot. Change is from one day to the next. Both heads showed this after around 30,000 miles running on LPG. Before, they run absolutely fine and you would not be able to tell there is serious trouble under way.
Does anyone have any suggestions? Will special hardened seat inserts (if they do exist) resolve the problem? Where to get? I have a spare head, luckily bought on Ebay for little money.
Alternatively, I'll be eating heads every 10 months, labour cost to replace around £400-500, plus cost of head from scrap yard or dismantler. There is still a small saving, but not worth the hassle.
Worryingly, the LPG company (Greenfuel/Dualfuel, Woking) assured me the Ka was compatible and that I would not get any trouble. Don't believe them!
I converted my 2004 Ford Ka to LPG, cost close to £2000, at mileage 25,000. At 60,000 miles compression was low in cylinder 2, diagnosed severe valve recession. Put in new engine and now, at 90,000 compression is very low in cylinder no 4 when cold, and a little low when hot. Haven't taken the head off yet but suspect the same problem.
Early symptons are misfire when cold, running fine when hot. Change is from one day to the next. Both heads showed this after around 30,000 miles running on LPG. Before, they run absolutely fine and you would not be able to tell there is serious trouble under way.
Does anyone have any suggestions? Will special hardened seat inserts (if they do exist) resolve the problem? Where to get? I have a spare head, luckily bought on Ebay for little money.
Alternatively, I'll be eating heads every 10 months, labour cost to replace around £400-500, plus cost of head from scrap yard or dismantler. There is still a small saving, but not worth the hassle.
Worryingly, the LPG company (Greenfuel/Dualfuel, Woking) assured me the Ka was compatible and that I would not get any trouble. Don't believe them!
Edited by jiimbo on Monday 26th March 18:39
Edited by jiimbo on Monday 26th March 18:41
Well, a year and a bit later, the Ford Ka has covered over 125,000 miles in total, 35,000 of which on the cylinder head I bought 2nd hand on Ebay, fitted with harderened valve seats made from a Federal Mogul special material. Fitting the valve seats cost me just over £300, plus the labour cost of fitting the head.
So far there are no early warning signs like misfiring when starting cold, which would previously have started at around 25,000 miles. Fingers crossed! Will report again when there is significant news...
Finally, after nearly 3 years, I'm beginning to make a bit of money from the conversion. In comparison, my wife's diesel Clio dci (chipped, 106 bhp) returns around 45-50 mpg (driving the way I do - at close to the unofficial 'real' speed limit of 100 mph on the motorway), and the LPG Ford Ka around 30 mpg. Not as big a saving as you might expect.
Having said all that, does anyone know anything about supplemental LPG for diesel engined cars? I know conversion kits exists in Australia. My 2005 Land Rover Defender td5 does 26 mpg on a good day (big tyres, roofrack)...
So far there are no early warning signs like misfiring when starting cold, which would previously have started at around 25,000 miles. Fingers crossed! Will report again when there is significant news...
Finally, after nearly 3 years, I'm beginning to make a bit of money from the conversion. In comparison, my wife's diesel Clio dci (chipped, 106 bhp) returns around 45-50 mpg (driving the way I do - at close to the unofficial 'real' speed limit of 100 mph on the motorway), and the LPG Ford Ka around 30 mpg. Not as big a saving as you might expect.
Having said all that, does anyone know anything about supplemental LPG for diesel engined cars? I know conversion kits exists in Australia. My 2005 Land Rover Defender td5 does 26 mpg on a good day (big tyres, roofrack)...
I converted my BMW 540i to dual fuel in 2004. I reckoned on a 38,000 mile payback. MPG fell by about 10% but costs compensated. I calculate that I get the price equivalent of 35mpg with LPG as opposed to 20mpg which is a lot of car for 35mpg.
I have just clocked 181,000 trouble free miles. The car has been running the same as ever. I just completed an 800 mile trip as smooth as ever. You need to ensure that you get regular services (about £300.00 every 15k miles) and the LPG won't work in the real hot summer days.
I have just clocked 181,000 trouble free miles. The car has been running the same as ever. I just completed an 800 mile trip as smooth as ever. You need to ensure that you get regular services (about £300.00 every 15k miles) and the LPG won't work in the real hot summer days.
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