Improving the brakes on a Ford Focus

[YTee]

I have a Mk 1.5 (2002) Ford Focus 1.8 Petrol, with discs on the front but drums on the rear, and I want to improve the brake performance a bit.

So far I've done everything obvious. I've renewed the front pads, discs and hoses and also the rear cylinders, shoes and hoses. I've changed the fluid to dot 5.1 spec fluid and bled the system.

The brakes function perfectly fine and there are no faults, certainly not that I'm aware of anyway. They're just not really all that good.

Now this model doesn't have ABS, and I'm suspicious that the brakes are designed to be a bit rubbish to stop Mrs Smith from locking up too easily on the way down the road to do the school pick up.

I'm aware that I have the option of doing major upgrades like swapping the rear drums for discs, putting ST170 brakes on and so on, but I'm looking for something less drastic than that, mostly so that I don't have to pay through the nose in insurance because I've modified it.

Does anyone know of anything that can easily be done to improve the pedal feel and braking performance without doing major work on it?

Cheers in advance...

[Peanut Gallery]

May I ask what pads you have put on the fronts? - and how many miles have you done with them?

Also is your servo working properly? - (engine off, pump the brakes a few times until they feel solid, keep pressing the brake and start the engine, the pedal should sink a bit if the servo is working)

My brakes also felt a lot sharper if they have been hot and well used recently, like within the last week.

[YTee]

The front pads are made by Brembo, but they're just standard OEM replacements. I didn't go for anything track-oriented.

I get the behaviour you describe when testing the servo. I think it's working ok. They do feel a tiny bit better when they're warmed up, but not dramatically better.

One thing I noticed that I'm not sure about... with the engine running, if I gradually keep applying more and more pressure to the pedal, it will travel almost down to the floor eventually. Not right to the floor, there's no leak I can detect, but almost. I was suspicious that there was still air in them but I have bled all four wheels and I've gone through 500ml of fluid doing it so I'd be surprised, but I'm no expert so maybe there is still some in there somehow.

[Peanut Gallery]

If maintained pressure is allowing the pedal to get to the floor there is a leak somewhere, have a check for fluid coming from the master cylinder as well, I have had issues there.

If you stamp on the pedal when moving, does the car pull to one side at all? - And are both sides of the disks showing good even signs of wear?

After some driving that requires heavy braking I sometimes just check that the brakes are similar temperatures on each axle.

[YTee]

Yeh, it's interesting. The pedal doesn't travel all the way down, but it does certainly travel too far for my liking and it must be further than it's designed to.

The braking is very even yes. It doesn't pull to one side at all, and it will lock up if I really go for it. It just seems like too much pressure is required for it to actually do that.

I'll check the MC as you suggest, and I might bleed it through again just to make sure I've put enough fluid through.

Thanks for the tips.

[Wait Here Until Green Light Shows]

We have the same Focus, and I can also make the pedal hit the floor with sustained pressure. Our Fiesta is the same. On this basis I'd say it's 'normal'. The brakes in both cars are fine but nowhere near as sharp as my MR2 for instance.
The Brembo pads...where did you get them from? If it was eBay and some random popup seller they're more than likely fake. You have to be really careful where you buy top brand name stuff like that.

[TooMany2cvs]

YTee said:

Now this model doesn't have ABS, and I'm suspicious that the brakes are designed to be a bit rubbish to stop Mrs Smith from locking up too easily on the way down the road to do the school pick up.

It should EASILY be able to lock up - and you won't improve the peak braking beyond that point, short of improving the tyres, because that's where you run out of grip. If you can't lock them, then there's something wrong with the brakes - or you're simply not pressing them hard enough. I'm also very surprised that any Focus doesn't have ABS.

DOT5.1 won't improve braking - it'll simply take more heat before boiling.

Don't forget to talk to your insurers about any mods beyond standard spec...

[IanCress]

Most versions of the Mk1 Focus didn't come with ABS. Only the 2 litre cars had it as standard.

[YTee]

Wait Here Until Green Light Shows said:

We have the same Focus, and I can also make the pedal hit the floor with sustained pressure. Our Fiesta is the same. On this basis I'd say it's 'normal'. The brakes in both cars are fine but nowhere near as sharp as my MR2 for instance.

Very interesting thanks. The brakes in my other car (Mk5 Golf) are also way better and I was hoping to get closer to that with the Focus, but maybe it's just not going to happen

Wait Here Until Green Light Shows said:

The Brembo pads...where did you get them from? If it was eBay and some random popup seller they're more than likely fake. You have to be really careful where you buy top brand name stuff like that.

Thanks for the tip and I agree entirely. I got them from Eurocarparts.

[YTee]

TooMany2cvs said:

It should EASILY be able to lock up - and you won't improve the peak braking beyond that point, short of improving the tyres, because that's where you run out of grip.

Agreed. I can lock them, but not easily. It takes a fair old push on the pedal. If I just stamp right on them from nothing with full force, then they do lock straight away. Maybe that's just normal.

[Wait Here Until Green Light Shows]

IanCress said:

Most versions of the Mk1 Focus didn't come with ABS. Only the 2 litre cars had it as standard.

Ours is a 1.6 Ghia and it has ABS

[YTee]

Wait Here Until Green Light Shows said:

Ours is a 1.6 Ghia and it has ABS

Probably an option mate. I've had two of them now and neither of them had it.

[IanCress]

I've had a 2002 1.6 Ghia which didn't have ABS. I think right at the end of the production run, the 2004-2005 models did get ABS as standard.

[YTee]

Really appreciate the feedback folks. I'm going to bleed them through again and check for any leaks again and I'll report back if I find anything interesting.

[YTee]

Well, I bled them again and to my surprise they are a little better now. Not much, but a little. The pedal still travels a long way under constant pressure, but it does definitely stop before it hits the floor.

I'm surprised because I bled them plenty (or so I thought) after changing the hoses, and there were no air bubbles flowing through at all.

Anyway, while they're still not as good as I want them, I suspect they are working 'normally' now. I'm satisfied until I eventually get around to replacing the rear drums with disks.

Hope this helps anyone with similar behaviour from their Focus brakes.

[steveo3002]

shouldnt be getting excessive pedal travel..something is still wrong

does the pedal change with handbrake on/ff

[RobXjcoupe]

YTee said:

Well, I bled them again and to my surprise they are a little better now. Not much, but a little. The pedal still travels a long way under constant pressure, but it does definitely stop before it hits the floor.

I'm surprised because I bled them plenty (or so I thought) after changing the hoses, and there were no air bubbles flowing through at all.

Anyway, while they're still not as good as I want them, I suspect they are working 'normally' now. I'm satisfied until I eventually get around to replacing the rear drums with disks.

Hope this helps anyone with similar behaviour from their Focus brakes.

if using an ezee bleed don't go over the stated max pressure otherwise the air in the system will also get pressured back into the fluid in tiny micro bubbles and when bleeding fluid out it will look like good fluid

[YTee]

steveo3002 said:

shouldnt be getting excessive pedal travel..something is still wrong

does the pedal change with handbrake on/ff

Sorry for the delay Steveo...

I don't think it is 'excessive' really, not any more. It feels pretty standard for a Mk1 Focus with drums on the back now. I had a different one of these a while back and the brakes were always 'progressive' on that one as well. I don't drive the car a lot but I did take it for a spin the other day and found a quiet road where I could brake from 70mph down to a stop with nothing behind me. I was happy with the result. I didn't try to lock up but it certainly stopped in a reassuring way!

Regards the handbrake being on or off, I assume you would expect slightly more pedal travel with the handbrake on, since the cable is already pulling the shoes against the drum? It's barely noticeable, but I do feel a slight change like that when pulling the handbrake on.

[YTee]

RobXjcoupe said:

if using an ezee bleed don't go over the stated max pressure otherwise the air in the system will also get pressured back into the fluid in tiny micro bubbles and when bleeding fluid out it will look like good fluid

Absolutely. I had it at 20psi. After two wheels had been bled I re-checked it and it had dropped to about 15psi so I topped it up to 20 again for the other two wheels.