Ford 'powershift' equipped cars
Discussion
Has anyone got a ford with the Powershift dual clutch box ? Or had experiences with them?
The old man's going to loose a couple of toes and part of his heel due to a medical condition, so his manual focus is going in favour of auto/dsg equipped cars,
He likes his Ford's and has seen a my64 focus with the Powershift box, I've not really seen much about them and assumed they were just autos until I did a bit more digging, all I know is it's a dual clutch they are made by getrag and that's about it, it's labelled as a semi auto, so is it like the VAG dsg units that have flappy paddles?
if anyone's driven/owned one I'd like to hear your opinions please and general impressions of driving it ease of use etc, I'll be joining a ford forum to get more clued up on it but thought I'd ask here 1st
Thanks
The old man's going to loose a couple of toes and part of his heel due to a medical condition, so his manual focus is going in favour of auto/dsg equipped cars,
He likes his Ford's and has seen a my64 focus with the Powershift box, I've not really seen much about them and assumed they were just autos until I did a bit more digging, all I know is it's a dual clutch they are made by getrag and that's about it, it's labelled as a semi auto, so is it like the VAG dsg units that have flappy paddles?
if anyone's driven/owned one I'd like to hear your opinions please and general impressions of driving it ease of use etc, I'll be joining a ford forum to get more clued up on it but thought I'd ask here 1st
Thanks
Ford are in a JV with Getrag to build these. The Powershift is a dual clutch auto shift manual (as opposed to a regular torque converter auto).
My previous car was a 2010 S-Max with the 200 ps Ecoboost petrol and the powershift - normal P-R-N-D on the selector, with a +/- gate to manually shift, no paddles. Overall a decent box and well suited to a big bus like the S-Max. I used the manual controls once in a blue moon and they work well enough but completely unnecessary in a family kiddy wagon. The shifts weren't seamless and you need to modulate the throttle to accommodate for that, but it was fine at judging the gears and was very responsive. It was a million times better than the CVT multi-tragic box I had in my previous Audi.
However it did have a problem which ultimately lead me to move the car on which was that at times, from standstill or very low speed, there would be a significant delay between pressing the throttle and the car responding - sods law dictating that this would be just as you were pulling out across 2 lanes of fast traffic. You could overcome this by holding the car on the brakes with the left foot and just before pulling away, loading the transmission by gently applying some throttle such that you knew when you released the brake you'd get instant "go". However this was a workaround to a fundamental problem and my wife wasn't about to do any left foot nonsense with a car full of kids. I'm not sure if it was a gearbox or engine issue but it was a pain.
The 2010 S-Max made way for a 2016 S-Max, now with a 240ps engine and the new improved Poweshift with P-R-N-D-S and paddles. It's night and day better - really smooth and well suited to the characteristics of the engine. It's a really good bit of kit actually and with the "S" position it's a bit more responsive if the mood takes you without needing to use the paddles which I think are unnecessary.
If it's the new shape Focus, go for it.
My previous car was a 2010 S-Max with the 200 ps Ecoboost petrol and the powershift - normal P-R-N-D on the selector, with a +/- gate to manually shift, no paddles. Overall a decent box and well suited to a big bus like the S-Max. I used the manual controls once in a blue moon and they work well enough but completely unnecessary in a family kiddy wagon. The shifts weren't seamless and you need to modulate the throttle to accommodate for that, but it was fine at judging the gears and was very responsive. It was a million times better than the CVT multi-tragic box I had in my previous Audi.
However it did have a problem which ultimately lead me to move the car on which was that at times, from standstill or very low speed, there would be a significant delay between pressing the throttle and the car responding - sods law dictating that this would be just as you were pulling out across 2 lanes of fast traffic. You could overcome this by holding the car on the brakes with the left foot and just before pulling away, loading the transmission by gently applying some throttle such that you knew when you released the brake you'd get instant "go". However this was a workaround to a fundamental problem and my wife wasn't about to do any left foot nonsense with a car full of kids. I'm not sure if it was a gearbox or engine issue but it was a pain.
The 2010 S-Max made way for a 2016 S-Max, now with a 240ps engine and the new improved Poweshift with P-R-N-D-S and paddles. It's night and day better - really smooth and well suited to the characteristics of the engine. It's a really good bit of kit actually and with the "S" position it's a bit more responsive if the mood takes you without needing to use the paddles which I think are unnecessary.
If it's the new shape Focus, go for it.
Edited by Dapster on Wednesday 5th April 10:28
Dapster said:
Ford are in a JV with Getrag to build these. The Powershift is a dual clutch auto shift manual (as opposed to a regular torque converter auto).
My previous car was a 2010 S-Max with the 200 ps Ecoboost petrol and the powershift - normal P-R-N-D on the selector, with a +/- gate to manually shift, no paddles. Overall a decent box and well suited to a big bus like the S-Max. I used the manual controls once in a blue moon and they work well enough but completely unnecessary in a family kiddy wagon. The shifts weren't seamless and you need to modulate the throttle to accommodate for that, but it was fine at judging the gears and was very responsive. It was a million times better than the CVT multi-tragic box I had in my previous Audi.
However it did have a problem which ultimately lead me to move the car on which was that at times, from standstill or very low speed, there would be a significant delay between pressing the throttle and the car responding - sods law dictating that this would be just as you were pulling out across 2 lanes of fast traffic. You could overcome this by holding the car on the brakes with the left foot and just before pulling away, loading the transmission by gently applying some throttle such that you knew when you released the brake you'd get instant "go". However this was a workaround to a fundamental problem and my wife wasn't about to do any left foot nonsense with a car full of kids. I'm not sure if it was a gearbox or engine issue but it was a pain.
The 2010 S-Max made way for a 2016 S-Max, now with a 240ps engine and the new improved Poweshift with P-R-N-D-S and paddles. It's night and day better - really smooth and well suited to the characteristics of the engine. It's a really good bit of kit actually and with the "S" position it's a bit more responsive if the mood takes you without needing to use the paddles which I think are unnecessary.
If it's the new shape Focus, go for it.
New one is not a Powershift. It's a 6F35.My previous car was a 2010 S-Max with the 200 ps Ecoboost petrol and the powershift - normal P-R-N-D on the selector, with a +/- gate to manually shift, no paddles. Overall a decent box and well suited to a big bus like the S-Max. I used the manual controls once in a blue moon and they work well enough but completely unnecessary in a family kiddy wagon. The shifts weren't seamless and you need to modulate the throttle to accommodate for that, but it was fine at judging the gears and was very responsive. It was a million times better than the CVT multi-tragic box I had in my previous Audi.
However it did have a problem which ultimately lead me to move the car on which was that at times, from standstill or very low speed, there would be a significant delay between pressing the throttle and the car responding - sods law dictating that this would be just as you were pulling out across 2 lanes of fast traffic. You could overcome this by holding the car on the brakes with the left foot and just before pulling away, loading the transmission by gently applying some throttle such that you knew when you released the brake you'd get instant "go". However this was a workaround to a fundamental problem and my wife wasn't about to do any left foot nonsense with a car full of kids. I'm not sure if it was a gearbox or engine issue but it was a pain.
The 2010 S-Max made way for a 2016 S-Max, now with a 240ps engine and the new improved Poweshift with P-R-N-D-S and paddles. It's night and day better - really smooth and well suited to the characteristics of the engine. It's a really good bit of kit actually and with the "S" position it's a bit more responsive if the mood takes you without needing to use the paddles which I think are unnecessary.
If it's the new shape Focus, go for it.
Edited by Dapster on Wednesday 5th April 10:28
Cheers chaps,
I did wonder how long they had been around as typing powershift issues into Google doesnt return much, so at least they've had a few years to iron out any issues,
I'll be doing the test drive as he currently has one of those air boot contraptions on,
Interesting to know about the slight delay on initial acceleration, not sure how my mum will get on with it, they are both in their early 70's but I told her it will probably be alot better than the old school autos,
I'm not sure if the car were looking at has paddles or not, it's only got 20k on the clock so not expecting any major issues, I've not driven a modern auto or dsg the last auto I set foot in was an e class merc,
Are there any specific things that I should listen for or be checking ?
I did wonder how long they had been around as typing powershift issues into Google doesnt return much, so at least they've had a few years to iron out any issues,
I'll be doing the test drive as he currently has one of those air boot contraptions on,
Interesting to know about the slight delay on initial acceleration, not sure how my mum will get on with it, they are both in their early 70's but I told her it will probably be alot better than the old school autos,
I'm not sure if the car were looking at has paddles or not, it's only got 20k on the clock so not expecting any major issues, I've not driven a modern auto or dsg the last auto I set foot in was an e class merc,
Are there any specific things that I should listen for or be checking ?
I have a Mondeo Titanium X Sport with the 2.0 Ecoboost and Powershift box. I've had it for nearly 3 years and had zero issues. It's not as smooth as the VW DSG box but then it's more reliable and doesn't exhibit some of the annoying traits (you don't have to press the brake when shifting between N and D, there's less of an annoying lag/jerk when pulling off immediately after shifting into D or R, etc). It's responsive and quite fun to hustle along while manually shifting the gears. It also won't "take over" and shift up or down on its own when in manual mode, unless the engine speed gets too low.
Keep the oil and filter changed every 37k miles or 3 years as per the schedule and it should be trouble-free.
Keep the oil and filter changed every 37k miles or 3 years as per the schedule and it should be trouble-free.
Dapster said:
You sure? Ford refers to the current box as "Poweshift" on all their publicity blurb and distinguishes it from the 6 speed auto they also do. The 6F35 isn't listed as being fitted to the S-Max or Mondeo.
The new Smax and Mondeo use a torque converter auto for the petrol engines and the Powershift twin clutch auto only for the diesels. No idea why.
king terrible, couldn't decide what gear it wanted to be in and when, just pretty awful on the whole. Dapster said:
However it did have a problem which ultimately lead me to move the car on which was that at times, from standstill or very low speed, there would be a significant delay between pressing the throttle and the car responding - sods law dictating that this would be just as you were pulling out across 2 lanes of fast traffic. You could overcome this by holding the car on the brakes with the left foot and just before pulling away, loading the transmission by gently applying some throttle such that you knew when you released the brake you'd get instant "go". However this was a workaround to a fundamental problem and my wife wasn't about to do any left foot nonsense with a car full of kids. I'm not sure if it was a gearbox or engine issue but it was a pain.
This is a symptom of all dual-clutch boxes - when you lift off the brakes and are ready to move it has to engage the clutch (as you would in a manual) and judge the rate of engagement to match your current throttle. The way to get them going is to lift off the brake a second or two early to let it do the clutch, then once crawling you can use power as normal.We have the same in our current Outback with its CVT - when warm it is completely disengaged when stopped and takes a brief time period to re-engage when rolling off the brakes.
A torque converter auto doesn't have this issue as it will (usually) crawl along immediately due to the continuous torque even at idle speeds.
We had a 2009 Focus 2.0TDCI Titanium with the PowerShift gearbox, it was on 55k ish miles when we got it and we were assured that the car had full service history and all fluid changes had been done. Except it turned out the gearbox had not been serviced when it was due (@ 40k from memory). The symptoms we experienced were at motorway speeds the car would rev but not get any faster, in fact the car would not go any faster than 80mph. It went back to the dealer and the gearbox was serviced and the software was updated but that only lasted about three months before it began slipping again. Fearing a large repair bill we pxed it for a different vehicle.
Not trying to scare or say they are unreliable, more highlighting the need for the gearbox service, or possibly we were just unlucky!
Not trying to scare or say they are unreliable, more highlighting the need for the gearbox service, or possibly we were just unlucky!
Thanks for the heads up, are they a noisy unit in general or when cold ?
The garage in question is an independent & deals with alot of ex fleet stuff, my dad's bought his last 3 cars from them and been using them for 10+ years for servicing so hopefully he'll not have his pants pulled down
The garage in question is an independent & deals with alot of ex fleet stuff, my dad's bought his last 3 cars from them and been using them for 10+ years for servicing so hopefully he'll not have his pants pulled down
I did 100k miles in a Volvo V50 which had the Powershift box, this was when they were owned by Ford before being sold to Geely. It was one of the first Powershift vehicles in the UK, and I also drove a manufacturer demonstrator which I believe was the first.
The box was completely faultless in all the time I had it, smooth changes with nice little blipped downshifts. Didn't have paddles but you could use manual mode with the selector. Crawled just like a normal auto, easy to reverse with precision including uphill. Didn't notice the delay in setting off that others have mentioned, very quick away when pulling out into traffic.
The only thing that needed a little figuring out was stop start traffic on downhill roads, it needed a bit of figuring out whether it was best to crawl in first or second, other than that nothing.
Of course it could be that the programming was different between Volvo and Ford, I recall some discussion that early Fords had an issue with hill starts that the Volvo didn’t, something to do with the brake sensors detecting wheel movement in both directions on the Volvo but only forwards in the Ford. Disabled drivers association raised this issue iirc and Ford promised a technical update. However the vehicle the OP is looking at is much newer than that. I wouldn't hesitate to have another and much prefer it as a transmission compared to the VW DSG, which itself is very good.
The box was completely faultless in all the time I had it, smooth changes with nice little blipped downshifts. Didn't have paddles but you could use manual mode with the selector. Crawled just like a normal auto, easy to reverse with precision including uphill. Didn't notice the delay in setting off that others have mentioned, very quick away when pulling out into traffic.
The only thing that needed a little figuring out was stop start traffic on downhill roads, it needed a bit of figuring out whether it was best to crawl in first or second, other than that nothing.
Of course it could be that the programming was different between Volvo and Ford, I recall some discussion that early Fords had an issue with hill starts that the Volvo didn’t, something to do with the brake sensors detecting wheel movement in both directions on the Volvo but only forwards in the Ford. Disabled drivers association raised this issue iirc and Ford promised a technical update. However the vehicle the OP is looking at is much newer than that. I wouldn't hesitate to have another and much prefer it as a transmission compared to the VW DSG, which itself is very good.
Stants said:
Thanks for the heads up, are they a noisy unit in general or when cold ?
The garage in question is an independent & deals with alot of ex fleet stuff, my dad's bought his last 3 cars from them and been using them for 10+ years for servicing so hopefully he'll not have his pants pulled down
Be careful which powertrain you're looking at. Just like 'DSG', Powershift is a marketing term only and there are actually two transmissions that fall under that banner:The garage in question is an independent & deals with alot of ex fleet stuff, my dad's bought his last 3 cars from them and been using them for 10+ years for servicing so hopefully he'll not have his pants pulled down
- DPS6 - Dry clutch 250Nm capable
- MPS6 - Wet clutch 450Nm capable
In general, wet clutch transmissions have better driveability. I have driven every MPS6-equipped vehicle Ford make (and most DPS6) and the MPS6 is a very nice product.
To tell the difference: If it's a diesel, it's MPS6.
We, the wife, had an Smax Powershift diesel jobby for 4 years, utterly reliable, in fact the most reliable car I've ever owned and when I sold it I got 55% of what I paid for it. The dealer that bought it said he couldn't buy and sell them quick enough if they had the right spec.
Brilliant cars in my experience.
Brilliant cars in my experience.
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