G27 Suspension
Discussion
quantum_man said:
A general call for advice regarding G27 suspension options. I've got a 1995 series 3 built using an ital rear axle and GT6 front (not Sierra).
What suspendion would I need to replace the current AVO coilover system (which looks a bit tired)?
Any advice would be appreciated!
I ran Track Spax on mine, which was predominately a race car. Not usually a great fan of Spax but worked well on mine. My G4 currently runs Pro-tech, which I'm quite impressed with.What suspendion would I need to replace the current AVO coilover system (which looks a bit tired)?
Any advice would be appreciated!
Another vote for Pro-tech here.
I have them on my G15 racer, my MG TF street car, and am about to put them on our MG Midget racer (to replace the heavy AVOs). I am hugely impressed with them; I had SPAX on the TF before, and with the Pro-techs it's like driving a different (better) car.
They are really well engineered, extremely lightweight and (generally) cheaper than the competition at around 70-75GBP per damper.
Given that your G27 runs GT6 front suspension, then Pro-Tech already have the working drawings (because my G15 runs a modified GT6 set up) so all they would have to do is valve them to suit your spring rates/corner weights.
I have them on my G15 racer, my MG TF street car, and am about to put them on our MG Midget racer (to replace the heavy AVOs). I am hugely impressed with them; I had SPAX on the TF before, and with the Pro-techs it's like driving a different (better) car.
They are really well engineered, extremely lightweight and (generally) cheaper than the competition at around 70-75GBP per damper.
Given that your G27 runs GT6 front suspension, then Pro-Tech already have the working drawings (because my G15 runs a modified GT6 set up) so all they would have to do is valve them to suit your spring rates/corner weights.
Edited by Ginetta G15 Girl on Saturday 26th June 13:57
Protech!!!
i ordered a set of single adjustable protech for my ex G4-series 4, similar to your G27 around 2 years ago...so they should have the dimensions. in the same time i reduced the spring rates, as the car came with springs which have been way to hard.
but i was never really satisfied with the ginetta setup in general.
acutally i´m owing a g27 from the mid 90ies. the handling, as on both G4 S4 i owned in the past, is a catastrophe compared to my sylva and my ex-westfield.
the Ginettas are hard and heavy to steer, the live axle is trampling, they arent "lively" ....in summary: its poor engineered.
e.g. front: the only thing which you can "adjust" is the Track. castor and camber are more or less pending of the accuracity of the chassis welding.
i´m also interested in some input how to improve the car´s handling, because its hard to believe that the engineering is really so poor compared to other kit-companies.
i ordered a set of single adjustable protech for my ex G4-series 4, similar to your G27 around 2 years ago...so they should have the dimensions. in the same time i reduced the spring rates, as the car came with springs which have been way to hard.
but i was never really satisfied with the ginetta setup in general.
acutally i´m owing a g27 from the mid 90ies. the handling, as on both G4 S4 i owned in the past, is a catastrophe compared to my sylva and my ex-westfield.
the Ginettas are hard and heavy to steer, the live axle is trampling, they arent "lively" ....in summary: its poor engineered.
e.g. front: the only thing which you can "adjust" is the Track. castor and camber are more or less pending of the accuracity of the chassis welding.
i´m also interested in some input how to improve the car´s handling, because its hard to believe that the engineering is really so poor compared to other kit-companies.
Comadis said:
the Ginettas are hard and heavy to steer, the live axle is trampling, they arent "lively" ....in summary: its poor engineered.
How is the axle located, can it be 5 linked?Comadis said:
e.g. front: the only thing which you can "adjust" is the Track. castor and camber are more or less pending of the accuracity of the chassis welding.
My G15 has fabricated and rose jointed wishbones, thereby getting over this problem.
An alternative would be to remove the Ginetta wishbone pivot brackets from the chassis and use the Spitfire/GT6 bolt through brackets. Camber and Castor can then be set by shimming the brackets.
If its the live axle, which I think it is, then yes it can be 5 linked using the kit from the G27R. Mine handled 230 bhp quite happily like that, and has the advantage of allowing you to fit a rear ARB.
For the front, my G27R had slightly wider wishbones and different uprights to the standard G27 which were fully adjustable. They should easily retrofit, although the lower mounting points on the chassis for the wishbones would require a bit of welding (as they are farther forward than the standard ones). I'll see if I have any pics.
For the front, my G27R had slightly wider wishbones and different uprights to the standard G27 which were fully adjustable. They should easily retrofit, although the lower mounting points on the chassis for the wishbones would require a bit of welding (as they are farther forward than the standard ones). I'll see if I have any pics.
ok, you can change to the GT6/spitfire setup, which means cutting off the chassis brackets and drilling holes in the chassis. for me its not clear why ginetta never used the complete GT6/Spitfire system from the beginning.
you can also fabricate new wishbones, as in the pictures. (by the way: nice done, but certain super-seven kits use this as standard since years)
as conclusion this means: Comadis is right with his estimation that these ginetta-models are poor engineered from the factory, as on all other well known kit-brands such "drastic" modifications arent necessary.
not to forget: if you dont have the skills nor facilities and tools such modifications arent done in a weekend and will cost a lot.
a potential buyer should calculate all these issues in the purchase price of the car...e.g: if you buy a standard live axle g4-S4 or a G27 you need to add another 1000-1500pound to get the suspension to work in an "acceptable" way...vice versa this amount of money should be deducted from the purchase price.
you can also fabricate new wishbones, as in the pictures. (by the way: nice done, but certain super-seven kits use this as standard since years)
as conclusion this means: Comadis is right with his estimation that these ginetta-models are poor engineered from the factory, as on all other well known kit-brands such "drastic" modifications arent necessary.
not to forget: if you dont have the skills nor facilities and tools such modifications arent done in a weekend and will cost a lot.
a potential buyer should calculate all these issues in the purchase price of the car...e.g: if you buy a standard live axle g4-S4 or a G27 you need to add another 1000-1500pound to get the suspension to work in an "acceptable" way...vice versa this amount of money should be deducted from the purchase price.
Edited by GinG15 on Sunday 27th June 07:49
If using the Triumph trunnion you are still only limited to Camber adjustment with adjustable wishbones - Caster adjustment requires the use of the caterham upright that has been developed for use with a rose joint so that the upright angle is not dictated by the angle of the brackets on the chassis - the Trunnion always runs 90 degrees to the chassis brackets.
Andrew
Andrew
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
Comadis said:
e.g. front: the only thing which you can "adjust" is the Track. castor and camber are more or less pending of the accuracity of the chassis welding.
My G15 has fabricated and rose jointed wishbones, thereby getting over this problem.so....can anybody tell us why Ginetta never used the original triumph setup, with camber adjustment by shims between chassis and wishbone bracket?
by the way: most other kitcars use the upper balljount for adjusting camber. i think ginetta started with the G33 doing that (a bit late imo).
another thing what isnt clear for me:
both cylindric spacers (front and rear) between lower wishbone and chassis do have differnt length....that must have a reason, cause the built manual says which spacer needs to be mounted in which position.
the former owner of the car mixed them. i now put them in the correct position, but there was no change during driving recognizable.
by the way: most other kitcars use the upper balljount for adjusting camber. i think ginetta started with the G33 doing that (a bit late imo).
another thing what isnt clear for me:
both cylindric spacers (front and rear) between lower wishbone and chassis do have differnt length....that must have a reason, cause the built manual says which spacer needs to be mounted in which position.
the former owner of the car mixed them. i now put them in the correct position, but there was no change during driving recognizable.
Edited by Comadis on Sunday 27th June 22:35
Comadis said:
most other kitcars use the upper balljount for adjusting camber. i think ginetta started with the G33 doing that (a bit late imo).
When I planned out my tubular wishbones I had a long chat with the guys at Spyder Engineering (the Lotus chassis specialists). They told me that replacing the upper ball joint with a rose joint would be a bad way to go about things because it would throw the Castor all over the place, and that inboard rose joints should be used for camber adjustment.The main problem with the Triumph derived suspension (which itself dates back to the Standard 8!) is the lower trunnion and sourcing good replacement parts. The rubbish being sold these days appears to have been made in the Far East using worn out moulds. Fortunately I have a stock of original STANPART trunnions.
Spyder now offer a complete replacement front set up utilising their own vertical link which gets around the trunnion problem:
http://www.spydercars.co.uk/marcos-GT6-Ginetta%20a...
I do not see that it would be bad and that it would have any detriment to Caster at all but I am certainly willing to listen to any valid reasoning behind it.
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
When I planned out my tubular wishbones I had a long chat with the guys at Spyder Engineering (the Lotus chassis specialists). They told me that replacing the upper ball joint with a rose joint would be a bad way to go about things because it would throw the Castor all over the place, and that inboard rose joints should be used for camber adjustment.
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