Autocar Lotus lovers, Ginetta haters?
Discussion
Long in the tooth Elise gets the full Autocar treatment in today's issue... what else would you expect from 'Lotus Weekly'
).
Noted in 'New Cars' section at back of mag, Farbio was constantly listed.
As soon as Ginetta took the car over, for a few weeks Farbio was still (incorrectly) listed.
I mentioned this. Then, hey presto, they conceded and listed Ginetta F400.
Didn't last. Couple of weeks or so of listing, take a look in today's issue...
You've guessed.
Ginetta no longer listed.
People know my long held thoughts. I'm still holding them!
).Noted in 'New Cars' section at back of mag, Farbio was constantly listed.
As soon as Ginetta took the car over, for a few weeks Farbio was still (incorrectly) listed.
I mentioned this. Then, hey presto, they conceded and listed Ginetta F400.
Didn't last. Couple of weeks or so of listing, take a look in today's issue...
You've guessed.
Ginetta no longer listed.
People know my long held thoughts. I'm still holding them!
Edited by dandarez on Wednesday 26th May 23:30
Hmm, I have always been a bit sceptical about your theory with Autocar, although i have to admit the evidence has stacked up in the past. Given that Ginetta are bigger than farbio, they now own farbio, the car is now a ginetta, and it's disappearance co-insides with it's rename....
Well i am convinced. Maybe we should start a campaign?
Well i am convinced. Maybe we should start a campaign?
Edited by jamesG20V6 on Thursday 27th May 10:57
By the way John, a bit off topic, but have you seen this? Isn't this that auction car you were following?
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C121035
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C121035
Hi James, now you see... all those who called me paranoid 
My gut feeling is someone, somewhere along the line was upset bigtime but it's a 'very long time' to harbour a grudge (if that's what it is?).
Hey, but I could be wrong, but I'd like to be proven wrong.
Remember the DZ (ok, not a Ginetta, but it is the Walkletts).
The queues at the Motor Show to get onto Dare's stand were unbelieveable.
Yet the mainstream press did the 'damning with feint praise' judgements.
One in particular, no guesses, did the 'it broke down... twice!' damning feature.
(Turned out later it was a coolant hose had come off - fair enough Dare should never have let a car out for test like that, but the mag implication to a reader was that it was serious. Imagine them saying that about a Loti? They'd have scrabbled under the car and tighted the jubilee clip... (Nah, they wouldn't know how to do that, they'd have called Lotus out, had it sorted, and probably not mentioned it).
One hack I was friendly with told me car features fell into one of three write-ups, Praising, Praising and Selling, or Damning with Feint Praise. Ginetta occasionally got the former, or the latter, rarely the second!
The G15, however, did get the 'second category' with many mags but guess what one mainstream mag did in their road test?
Remember this car could be put together over a weekend or bought fully built, and it was fully type-approved) - they put 'DIY' in very big letters. I ask you, DIY! That instilled confidence into readers looking to buy a new sports car. Yet when the Clan Crusader came out, the same mag fell over themselves to 'Praise and sell'. History shows us that Clan went to wall within years and had lied about their sales figures.
The same mag, later when Martin had taken over, threw the outrageous jibe into print that 'Ginetta had been nothing more than a kit-car maker'! Really?
SMMT status since 1967, 3 fully type-approved cars and a motor racing history as good as any other specialist.
What sort of editorial policy would allow that?
Going back to the DZ.
Auto Distress just did a 'damning' only road test. Probably the unfairest most ridiculous slating exercise I have ever read in my life. In fact, the young wet behind the ears tester was allegedly too scared to return the car to Dare so he got someone else (his dad?) to do it!! The question in my mind was did 'he' really write those words...?
On the other hand all the specialist mags absolutely loved everything about the car. 'Performance Ford' magazine literally grovelled and excelled over it! You could be forgiven easily for thinking that they were talking about a different car entirely!
Yeah, vendetta somewhere - goes way, way back. Even to the times when the G15 was banned from Production sports car racing. I can remember when I wrote to the press, weeks of letters of support for its reintroduction followed but never once was there any editorial support. In fact, the correspondence was ended with something like 'this topic has been overdone' (well, not those exact words but you get the giste).
I heard it rumoured years ago from one hack that a 'cartoon' existed showing Ginetta on a cliff edge, no caption just a handful of 'people' trying to push them over.
I'm not saying journalists are anti-Ginetta, of course they are not, that would be plain daft. Some I knew gave all credit to the marque, probably too much on occasion. Oddly some of these disappeared (not in that way!). Probably just went on to another different kind of job (after years in motoring journalism).
But you have to agree, something is not quite 'above board' out there.
I have enough to write a book!
I remember when interviewing Bob Walklett, when he told me that he actually had feared there was an undercurrent intent on driving Ginetta out of business, what was the most damaging thing he'd encountered when running the company.
He mentioned several, but said there was one that was powerful: 'Omission'.
Is it just an oversight? I can't see that, being in the publishing industry someone has to give the go-ahead for the deletion in that listing. It's not a typo. The heading Ginetta is gone. Hopefully, and possibly, there is a good reason for the omission.
I'd like to hear it.
My gut feeling is someone, somewhere along the line was upset bigtime but it's a 'very long time' to harbour a grudge (if that's what it is?).
Hey, but I could be wrong, but I'd like to be proven wrong.
Remember the DZ (ok, not a Ginetta, but it is the Walkletts).
The queues at the Motor Show to get onto Dare's stand were unbelieveable.
Yet the mainstream press did the 'damning with feint praise' judgements.
One in particular, no guesses, did the 'it broke down... twice!' damning feature.
(Turned out later it was a coolant hose had come off - fair enough Dare should never have let a car out for test like that, but the mag implication to a reader was that it was serious. Imagine them saying that about a Loti? They'd have scrabbled under the car and tighted the jubilee clip... (Nah, they wouldn't know how to do that
, they'd have called Lotus out, had it sorted, and probably not mentioned it). One hack I was friendly with told me car features fell into one of three write-ups, Praising, Praising and Selling, or Damning with Feint Praise. Ginetta occasionally got the former, or the latter, rarely the second!
The G15, however, did get the 'second category' with many mags but guess what one mainstream mag did in their road test?
Remember this car could be put together over a weekend or bought fully built, and it was fully type-approved) - they put 'DIY' in very big letters. I ask you, DIY! That instilled confidence into readers looking to buy a new sports car. Yet when the Clan Crusader came out, the same mag fell over themselves to 'Praise and sell'. History shows us that Clan went to wall within years and had lied about their sales figures.
The same mag, later when Martin had taken over, threw the outrageous jibe into print that 'Ginetta had been nothing more than a kit-car maker'! Really?
SMMT status since 1967, 3 fully type-approved cars and a motor racing history as good as any other specialist.
What sort of editorial policy would allow that?
Going back to the DZ.
Auto Distress just did a 'damning' only road test. Probably the unfairest most ridiculous slating exercise I have ever read in my life. In fact, the young wet behind the ears tester was allegedly too scared to return the car to Dare so he got someone else (his dad?) to do it!! The question in my mind was did 'he' really write those words...?
On the other hand all the specialist mags absolutely loved everything about the car. 'Performance Ford' magazine literally grovelled and excelled over it! You could be forgiven easily for thinking that they were talking about a different car entirely!
Yeah, vendetta somewhere - goes way, way back. Even to the times when the G15 was banned from Production sports car racing. I can remember when I wrote to the press, weeks of letters of support for its reintroduction followed but never once was there any editorial support. In fact, the correspondence was ended with something like 'this topic has been overdone' (well, not those exact words but you get the giste).
I heard it rumoured years ago from one hack that a 'cartoon' existed showing Ginetta on a cliff edge, no caption just a handful of 'people' trying to push them over.
I'm not saying journalists are anti-Ginetta, of course they are not, that would be plain daft. Some I knew gave all credit to the marque, probably too much on occasion. Oddly some of these disappeared (not in that way!). Probably just went on to another different kind of job (after years in motoring journalism).
But you have to agree, something is not quite 'above board' out there.
I have enough to write a book!
I remember when interviewing Bob Walklett, when he told me that he actually had feared there was an undercurrent intent on driving Ginetta out of business, what was the most damaging thing he'd encountered when running the company.
He mentioned several, but said there was one that was powerful: 'Omission'.
Is it just an oversight? I can't see that, being in the publishing industry someone has to give the go-ahead for the deletion in that listing. It's not a typo. The heading Ginetta is gone. Hopefully, and possibly, there is a good reason for the omission.
I'd like to hear it.
Edited by dandarez on Thursday 27th May 12:57
jamesG20V6 said:
By the way John, a bit off topic, but have you seen this? Isn't this that auction car you were following?
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C121035
Blimey, this one is like a pop-up book.http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C121035
One minute it's unsold, then it's sold, then it's not...
Or do I just need to lie down!
captainsensible said:
Conspiracy theories are always fun - but its a bit ridiculous to seriously think that for the last 40 years and many editors this mag has had it in for Ginetta.
I suspect that the reason Lotus have got more coverage over the years is more to do with highly effective PR.
Of course, it's ridiculous. Where did I say it was the editors?I suspect that the reason Lotus have got more coverage over the years is more to do with highly effective PR.
Highly effective PR. What, you mean 'free lunches'?
Can you do much bigger PR than a British Motor Show?
Ring 'em up and ask why Ginetta F400 has been removed from the new car listings.
Trouble is the 'highly effective' PR is not working for Lotus at the moment.
Ginetta now has a 'road' car so the months and years? ahead will be interesting.
Despite the 'Praising and selling' road tests and features for the Lotus Evora it's not selling.
EVO went so far as to give it top spot over 'everything'.
The Mag that says 'Every performance car rated and tested'.
'Every'????
Edited by dandarez on Sunday 30th May 15:19
Ask them this too.
I'm just reading this week's copy very late (early hours!) and there is a 2 page feature on Zytec Engineering.
Not one utterance of Ginetta anywhere.
Yet Gordon Murray's little car gets mentioned.
I thought Ginetta part-owned Zytec Engineering?
And what about the Ginetta Zytec leccy car (I know Autocar did feature this in a past issue (just to show I read it!), and give them due they do mention Ginetta in their online mag site but rarely so in the 'printed' version) and then there is the news that is so high on the agenda here on PHs: the Mansells and their Ginetta Zytec at Le Mans (and other teams entered in Ginetta Zytecs).
Why so quiet in the mag? OK, Le Mans is not an topical Autocar subject but if the Mansells were driving a Loti, it would be ...for sure!
A little bit of balance.
Or am I also too bias?
PS
Just finished reading and Ginetta F400 still removed from new car listings.
They do KNOW it's going to be a Goodwood FoS?
I'm just reading this week's copy very late (early hours!) and there is a 2 page feature on Zytec Engineering.
Not one utterance of Ginetta anywhere.
Yet Gordon Murray's little car gets mentioned.
I thought Ginetta part-owned Zytec Engineering?
And what about the Ginetta Zytec leccy car (I know Autocar did feature this in a past issue (just to show I read it!), and give them due they do mention Ginetta in their online mag site but rarely so in the 'printed' version) and then there is the news that is so high on the agenda here on PHs: the Mansells and their Ginetta Zytec at Le Mans (and other teams entered in Ginetta Zytecs).
Why so quiet in the mag? OK, Le Mans is not an topical Autocar subject but if the Mansells were driving a Loti, it would be ...for sure!
A little bit of balance.
Or am I also too bias?
PS
Just finished reading and Ginetta F400 still removed from new car listings.
They do KNOW it's going to be a Goodwood FoS?
Edited by dandarez on Thursday 10th June 01:25
jamesG20V6 said:
By the way John, a bit off topic, but have you seen this? Isn't this that auction car you were following?
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C121035
Is that the G4 that Vicky Butler-Henderson tested for Top Gear back in the late 90's? It's on youtube if anyone's interested...http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C121035
quantum_man said:
jamesG20V6 said:
By the way John, a bit off topic, but have you seen this? Isn't this that auction car you were following?
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C121035
Is that the G4 that Vicky Butler-Henderson tested for Top Gear back in the late 90's? It's on youtube if anyone's interested...http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C121035
Justin-W said:
dont forget http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZnCcga8VLc
Never seen that - cheers! I love those lights a bit too much.And while the shameless thread high-jack goes on - more Ginetta videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuCBlPQo3QE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q69dd7GSGMs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KQjFWS3Ra8
Justin-W said:
And another this time a friend made, back when the G50 was first launched
http://vimeo.com/787893
Cracking!http://vimeo.com/787893
Carnage said:
Justin-W said:
dont forget http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZnCcga8VLc
Never seen that - cheers! I love those lights a bit too much.And while the shameless thread high-jack goes on - more Ginetta videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuCBlPQo3QE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q69dd7GSGMs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KQjFWS3Ra8
And to get things back on thread, one hack if I recall crashed one of the DZs. Probably a supercharged one.
If anybody spots the silver one up for sale again, let me know.
Wonder if the guy who bought it ever found a wheel centre (missing on one of the wheels)? Me doubts it, as they were made in South Africa.
Edited by dandarez on Tuesday 29th June 23:56
dandarez said:
Blimey!
Takes me a while to get round to reading Lotus Weekly (aka Autocar) so flicking through current issue (last week's) having a tea-break and low and behold Ginetta is now listed in 'New Cars'.
Well, well.
Can we expect a road test anytime soon?
We on PH asked for an F400 to road test and we are struggling to get hold of one that "is available" to quote them Takes me a while to get round to reading Lotus Weekly (aka Autocar) so flicking through current issue (last week's) having a tea-break and low and behold Ginetta is now listed in 'New Cars'.
Well, well.
Can we expect a road test anytime soon?
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