RE: Ginetta G4
Wednesday 2nd January 2002
Ginetta G4
Track day or every day? Graham Bell samples the spritely Ginetta G4 Coupe
Discussion
The reason the G20 is cheaper than the G4 is that it's even more raw, with no doors, bootlid or similar items, meaning fewer moulds and fewer construction manhours, all of which helps keep the price down.
You'll see how basic the G20 is when we hopefully test it later this month.
There may also be other reasons why it's cheaper, but you'd have to ask Dare and Ginetta about that.
You'll see how basic the G20 is when we hopefully test it later this month.
There may also be other reasons why it's cheaper, but you'd have to ask Dare and Ginetta about that.
In answer to the questions asked by Jazz, you might find the following info helpful.
Regarding eligibility of the G20 in the G27 race series, I've checked this out with Matin Phaff of Ginetta and yes, the G20 will be able to compete in the G27 series this year. In fact Martin expects the more basic and cheaper G20 to become the weapon of choice in Ginetta racing, so maybe next year it will be the G20 race series. Time will tell.
In answer to Jazz's other question, two companies make Ginettas. Confusing, but there it is. That's because, as mentioned in the original article, the Walkletts sold the Ginetta company along with the rights to the G27 and their other current cars (G32) to Martin Phaff about 12 years ago.
I guess they must have kept the rights to their earlier models though as they're now producing both the G4 and G12 through their new company Dare. And yes, it is the same company that makes the DZ.
So you have the Ginetta G27, G20 and G33 produced by Ginetta Cars based in Sheffield and the Ginetta G4 and G12 produced by Dare based in West Mersea, Esssex.
Regarding eligibility of the G4 in the G27 series, because it's made by Dare and not Ginetta it isn't eligible for the Ginetta race series, though it is (or was) eligible for racing with the 750 Motor Club.
If any Pistonheads readers are interested in competing in the G27 series, Ginetta Cars have a brochure available so phone them on 0114 261 0099 or see www.ginettacars.com.
Anyone interested in racing a G4 should contact Dare on 01206 382987 or see www.dareuk.com.
Regarding eligibility of the G20 in the G27 race series, I've checked this out with Matin Phaff of Ginetta and yes, the G20 will be able to compete in the G27 series this year. In fact Martin expects the more basic and cheaper G20 to become the weapon of choice in Ginetta racing, so maybe next year it will be the G20 race series. Time will tell.
In answer to Jazz's other question, two companies make Ginettas. Confusing, but there it is. That's because, as mentioned in the original article, the Walkletts sold the Ginetta company along with the rights to the G27 and their other current cars (G32) to Martin Phaff about 12 years ago.
I guess they must have kept the rights to their earlier models though as they're now producing both the G4 and G12 through their new company Dare. And yes, it is the same company that makes the DZ.
So you have the Ginetta G27, G20 and G33 produced by Ginetta Cars based in Sheffield and the Ginetta G4 and G12 produced by Dare based in West Mersea, Esssex.
Regarding eligibility of the G4 in the G27 series, because it's made by Dare and not Ginetta it isn't eligible for the Ginetta race series, though it is (or was) eligible for racing with the 750 Motor Club.
If any Pistonheads readers are interested in competing in the G27 series, Ginetta Cars have a brochure available so phone them on 0114 261 0099 or see www.ginettacars.com.
Anyone interested in racing a G4 should contact Dare on 01206 382987 or see www.dareuk.com.
Here are a few facts: Rarely do you read much about Dare in the motoring press, I don't know why, but I can guess. Aside from that, Dare own the world rights to make both the G4 and G12 models. The story is complicated but I would suggest that if you are thinking of being enticed by the looks of a G20 (made by the current Ginetta company), you would be an absolute fool not to take a look at the G4 made by Dare before deciding. The two are poles apart.
Graham Bell in his article under:
Road Going Race Car? stated:
"With Mark Walklett having won several races in a G4 in recent years there can be no doubting the car's cornering abilities..."
I'd like to correct that slightly. It has a little more than just cornering ability. Mark not only won, he decimated most of the Roadsports grids which comprised of many hallowed Elises, the odd Elan, Esprit, Porsche 911 RS, 911 Carrera, Morgan +8s, even a Ginetta G27 (with a Dare built engine!) and so on. More than two of the races entered were won by the G4 in excess of 20 (yes, that is 20!) seconds. One meeting I recall which was real fun (except if you were a Lotus fan of course) was at Mallory. Two races were down for Roadsports and among the Lotus contingent this time was a very serious black Elise. It was quick. Ironically, it was even noisier than the G4 and despite attempts to muffle its special exhaust to quieten it, the Elise was relegated to the back of the grid. Despite this the Elise ripped through the grid. It was not enough, however, to catch Mark in the G4 who took the outright win. The Elise in its favour, did snatch the lap record though.
This meant the second race had be a good one. It was! The G4 and the black Elise took each other on. The outcome? The G4 not only won again... it also snatched the Elise's very short-lived lap record!! If you want a few pictures go to dareuk.com, click on motorsport and then ask yourself why you didn't know about this before? Poor marketing by Dare or something else?
Yes, the DZ is made by Dare and can only be bought fully built. It rarely gets a mention anywhere. Why? It is an amazing car for road and track. Radical? It makes a 340R look like a beach buggy. Take a look - at least pistonheads has some info on it - the one on this site is under Fast Cars. Like the G4, it is tiny, weighs only 680 kg, supercharged its 195lb ft of torque, that is 313 bhp per ton!
I raved about this car after its launch at the 98 Motor Show, and having driven it several hundred miles afterwards confirmed for me just how good it was. But the mainstream motoring press were indifferent to it. Autocar said it broke down TWICE and even mentioned this TWICE. When I asked Dare what the problem was, because Autocar did not mention WHY it broke down, apparently it was simply a coolant hose had come loose! Other mainstream mags also rubbished it. Yet independent mags, like Performance Ford, used superlatives and could not praise it highly enough.Strange, eh? Also a shame.
Graham Bell in his article under:
Road Going Race Car? stated:
"With Mark Walklett having won several races in a G4 in recent years there can be no doubting the car's cornering abilities..."
I'd like to correct that slightly. It has a little more than just cornering ability. Mark not only won, he decimated most of the Roadsports grids which comprised of many hallowed Elises, the odd Elan, Esprit, Porsche 911 RS, 911 Carrera, Morgan +8s, even a Ginetta G27 (with a Dare built engine!) and so on. More than two of the races entered were won by the G4 in excess of 20 (yes, that is 20!) seconds. One meeting I recall which was real fun (except if you were a Lotus fan of course) was at Mallory. Two races were down for Roadsports and among the Lotus contingent this time was a very serious black Elise. It was quick. Ironically, it was even noisier than the G4 and despite attempts to muffle its special exhaust to quieten it, the Elise was relegated to the back of the grid. Despite this the Elise ripped through the grid. It was not enough, however, to catch Mark in the G4 who took the outright win. The Elise in its favour, did snatch the lap record though.
This meant the second race had be a good one. It was! The G4 and the black Elise took each other on. The outcome? The G4 not only won again... it also snatched the Elise's very short-lived lap record!! If you want a few pictures go to dareuk.com, click on motorsport and then ask yourself why you didn't know about this before? Poor marketing by Dare or something else?
Yes, the DZ is made by Dare and can only be bought fully built. It rarely gets a mention anywhere. Why? It is an amazing car for road and track. Radical? It makes a 340R look like a beach buggy. Take a look - at least pistonheads has some info on it - the one on this site is under Fast Cars. Like the G4, it is tiny, weighs only 680 kg, supercharged its 195lb ft of torque, that is 313 bhp per ton!
I raved about this car after its launch at the 98 Motor Show, and having driven it several hundred miles afterwards confirmed for me just how good it was. But the mainstream motoring press were indifferent to it. Autocar said it broke down TWICE and even mentioned this TWICE. When I asked Dare what the problem was, because Autocar did not mention WHY it broke down, apparently it was simply a coolant hose had come loose! Other mainstream mags also rubbished it. Yet independent mags, like Performance Ford, used superlatives and could not praise it highly enough.Strange, eh? Also a shame.
Thanks for the racing info dandarez. I think part of the reason mainstream magazines etc. don't tend to like specialist cars like the DZ is that they just don't understand them.
Maybe they're just not as enthusiastic about performance cars as they like to let on - unless of course they're form the big name manufacturers (Ferrari, Porsche etc) and they can pose round in them all day. Even the magazine that claims to be about ' the thrill of driving' won't look at many really good driver's cars just because they're kit cars.
Could it be because when it comes down to it most motoring hacks really don't know that much about automotive engineering? Perhaps I'm being too cynical, but I can just imaging the Autocar crowd staring at that lose hose and having the call out the AA to put it back on for them. Screwdriver - how do you use one of those?
Personally I've been luck enough to drive some big name cars myself (Ferrari, Aston, Lotus & TVR among others) but some of my most enjoyable drives have been in 'specialist' cars - maybe because I've built some of them.
As for the DZ, Dare have invited Pistonheads to test it so hopefuly we'll be able to arrange something for later in the year.
Maybe they're just not as enthusiastic about performance cars as they like to let on - unless of course they're form the big name manufacturers (Ferrari, Porsche etc) and they can pose round in them all day. Even the magazine that claims to be about ' the thrill of driving' won't look at many really good driver's cars just because they're kit cars.
Could it be because when it comes down to it most motoring hacks really don't know that much about automotive engineering? Perhaps I'm being too cynical, but I can just imaging the Autocar crowd staring at that lose hose and having the call out the AA to put it back on for them. Screwdriver - how do you use one of those?
Personally I've been luck enough to drive some big name cars myself (Ferrari, Aston, Lotus & TVR among others) but some of my most enjoyable drives have been in 'specialist' cars - maybe because I've built some of them.
As for the DZ, Dare have invited Pistonheads to test it so hopefuly we'll be able to arrange something for later in the year.
I am one of the few poeple that has driven the Ginetta G4 built by DARE and the Phaff G20. DanDare is right to mention the exploits of Mark Walklett in the G4, because they were ignored by the mainstream mags such as Autosport. I drove the G4 on several occaisions and it was a revallation after my G27. When Martin Phaff's company went into recievership; I bought the assets of the so called works team from the finance house General Guaranttee. One of the three cars I had bought was modified for "Roadsports" with the DARE engine; so even with equal power the G4 was far superior.
So the conclusion is that the Phaff G20/G27/S4 or whatever he calls it as the time suits is only a cheap imitation of the great G4.
So if you want the true spirit of the "60s" thne the DARE built Ginetta G4 is the car for you.
James
So the conclusion is that the Phaff G20/G27/S4 or whatever he calls it as the time suits is only a cheap imitation of the great G4.
So if you want the true spirit of the "60s" thne the DARE built Ginetta G4 is the car for you.
James
WOW G4!
I must say this G4 with it's track history is sounding mighty impressive. All the information provided has been very interesting too.
My question is, Can the G4 be brought to US streets not just imported as a track car. I could call up dare and ask (US&UK phone numbers ?) but I am shy and not serious for another year or two. I've combed the internet trying to find Ginetta in the US and sure enough there is a following but no references to new cars brought over the pond.
A new race track is being built near where I live for the public to use. (Totally unheard of around Nebraska) Haveing a track prepped G4 sounds extremely competitive. Yet, I need some practicality of a street legal car not a sole track car.
PiB
I must say this G4 with it's track history is sounding mighty impressive. All the information provided has been very interesting too.
My question is, Can the G4 be brought to US streets not just imported as a track car. I could call up dare and ask (US&UK phone numbers ?) but I am shy and not serious for another year or two. I've combed the internet trying to find Ginetta in the US and sure enough there is a following but no references to new cars brought over the pond.
A new race track is being built near where I live for the public to use. (Totally unheard of around Nebraska) Haveing a track prepped G4 sounds extremely competitive. Yet, I need some practicality of a street legal car not a sole track car.
PiB
Hi PiB,
You'll find UK phone numbers (just remove the first 0 and add +44 when phoning from the US - but remember the time difference!)and web site URLs on page 3 of these discussions.
Not sure, but I think I remember seeing a current G4 advertised for sale recently in the US in Classic and Sports Car magazine. Don't know whether it would be road legal in the US though. Why not e-mail Dare and ask?
You'll find UK phone numbers (just remove the first 0 and add +44 when phoning from the US - but remember the time difference!)and web site URLs on page 3 of these discussions.
Not sure, but I think I remember seeing a current G4 advertised for sale recently in the US in Classic and Sports Car magazine. Don't know whether it would be road legal in the US though. Why not e-mail Dare and ask?
PiB
Please e-mail me and I'll give you a couple of contacts Stateside. I can't promise anything, but they are members of the Ginetta Owners Club and I'm sure they'll try and help if they can. It might be well worth your while joining the GOC as well, you get an excellent bi-monthly magazine packed with information about all Ginettas.
PS
Please e-mail me and I'll give you a couple of contacts Stateside. I can't promise anything, but they are members of the Ginetta Owners Club and I'm sure they'll try and help if they can. It might be well worth your while joining the GOC as well, you get an excellent bi-monthly magazine packed with information about all Ginettas.
PS
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