G40R questions
Discussion
Hi all,
Having just taken a deposit on my Caterham Supersport R I have set about looking for a replacement.
Caterham was used for Sprints/hillclimbs and lately I have done a lot more road miles. Also, with 3 young children something I can use a little more to work etc (nice roads on route to work) would be nice.
Whilst I am looking for something more usable, I still want the sense of occasion etc and still able to do the odd sprint if I get a free weekend.
Elise/exige seemed the sensible step BUT I sat in an S2 elise and struggled for knee room. Head room was ok but was tight once I stuck my helmet on. Exige prices have also gone daft!
TVR itch is something I've always had so TVR tamora is where I've been looking. Engine fragility is a concern as I do like to drive cars as they are intended! Have a very nice one I've been finding out about but possibly too nice for me (ie. above my budget)
This leads me on to the G40R!
I've always liked them, and coming from the caterham it could be a good move. My Caterham is obviously lighter but only 160bhp on throttle bodies so around 300bhp/tonne.
G40R would be slightly down on this (around 250bhp/tonne?) but still front engine/RWD which I am so used to, on throttle bodies so won't miss out on throttle body soundtrack and with a roof will be a bit more usable than the caterham.
No stereo is the only box it doesn't tick as quite fancied some music on road trips for a change.
Any tall drivers on here? I'm 6ft 4. I fit in my caterham with lowered floor but my helmet is in line with the top of my roll cage. Without helmet I have plenty clearance.
Any local to Aberdeen and any for sale? I see the one in classifieds but ideally I'm looking for used as from memory they sell for around £20k which is coincidently the budget I've set myself.
Cheers,
Dave
Having just taken a deposit on my Caterham Supersport R I have set about looking for a replacement.
Caterham was used for Sprints/hillclimbs and lately I have done a lot more road miles. Also, with 3 young children something I can use a little more to work etc (nice roads on route to work) would be nice.
Whilst I am looking for something more usable, I still want the sense of occasion etc and still able to do the odd sprint if I get a free weekend.
Elise/exige seemed the sensible step BUT I sat in an S2 elise and struggled for knee room. Head room was ok but was tight once I stuck my helmet on. Exige prices have also gone daft!
TVR itch is something I've always had so TVR tamora is where I've been looking. Engine fragility is a concern as I do like to drive cars as they are intended! Have a very nice one I've been finding out about but possibly too nice for me (ie. above my budget)
This leads me on to the G40R!
I've always liked them, and coming from the caterham it could be a good move. My Caterham is obviously lighter but only 160bhp on throttle bodies so around 300bhp/tonne.
G40R would be slightly down on this (around 250bhp/tonne?) but still front engine/RWD which I am so used to, on throttle bodies so won't miss out on throttle body soundtrack and with a roof will be a bit more usable than the caterham.
No stereo is the only box it doesn't tick as quite fancied some music on road trips for a change.
Any tall drivers on here? I'm 6ft 4. I fit in my caterham with lowered floor but my helmet is in line with the top of my roll cage. Without helmet I have plenty clearance.
Any local to Aberdeen and any for sale? I see the one in classifieds but ideally I'm looking for used as from memory they sell for around £20k which is coincidently the budget I've set myself.
Cheers,
Dave
Mines in pieces at the moment for an engine swap. If you're thinking of using it as a road car around Aberdeen, don't! It's a race car adapted for the road and the corrosion projection, general quality of components, heating/ventilation/air con are not up to it. The powder coating on the chassis is very poor. Mines done about 2500 miles in mostly summer conditions and the coating is lifting in high impact areas already. Winter roads with salt and slush will wreck it in no time. Also, with about 4" ground clearance it does not like rough roads.
If on the other hand you are going to save it for high days and holidays and track use, go ahead.
Apart from the roof and boot, it's not really any more of a practical road car than your Caterham. It's not a car for wide people or women in skirts!
The Duratec powered car goes alright, but in standard form suffers from a power band narrower than the gap between 2nd / 3rd gear. This gets to be tiresome on track when accelerating up hills. There should be a Quaife close ratio gear kit from Raceline available sometime next year which will be a big help. Or you could spend half the cost of the car again on a 2.5 litre engine, which is what I am up to.
The Zetec powered cars are pretty gutless in my opinion.
I'm 6'2" and with a helmet on it's just about OK. That is with the race buckets mounted as low as possible, not the road seats. In fact, the factory had to make special seat mounts at my request to put the seat low enough for me.
At 6'4" you might have problems, depending on if your extra 2" comes mainly in your body or your legs. Leg room is OK for me and the seat is probably a couple of notches forwards from the rearmost position.
I'm several hundred miles south of you, so I can't offer you a try out in mine unfortunately.
I have driven Caterhams on track and, due to sitting so far back, the front end feel seemed remote to me. The Ginetta feels much more "pointy" turning into corners. Also, unless your Caterham had a full cage, the Ginetta has a more rigid and crash-worthy structure. Overall, the G40 has a lot of potential and is let down mainly by details which Caterham had years to develop out. It depends how patient you are to get the inevitable niggles sorted.
I think that should be enough to give you an idea. Maybe you could take a trip to the factory in Leeds, if they have a car you could try. They stopped making the Duratec car now, but a Zetec car is the same except for the reduced power.
PS, if buying secondhand, try to find a private sale from an enthusiastic owner. These cars are so rare and there is no dealer network, so most dealers won't have a clue about all the details and niggles that a knowledgeable private seller could provide.
If on the other hand you are going to save it for high days and holidays and track use, go ahead.
Apart from the roof and boot, it's not really any more of a practical road car than your Caterham. It's not a car for wide people or women in skirts!
The Duratec powered car goes alright, but in standard form suffers from a power band narrower than the gap between 2nd / 3rd gear. This gets to be tiresome on track when accelerating up hills. There should be a Quaife close ratio gear kit from Raceline available sometime next year which will be a big help. Or you could spend half the cost of the car again on a 2.5 litre engine, which is what I am up to.
The Zetec powered cars are pretty gutless in my opinion.
I'm 6'2" and with a helmet on it's just about OK. That is with the race buckets mounted as low as possible, not the road seats. In fact, the factory had to make special seat mounts at my request to put the seat low enough for me.
At 6'4" you might have problems, depending on if your extra 2" comes mainly in your body or your legs. Leg room is OK for me and the seat is probably a couple of notches forwards from the rearmost position.
I'm several hundred miles south of you, so I can't offer you a try out in mine unfortunately.
I have driven Caterhams on track and, due to sitting so far back, the front end feel seemed remote to me. The Ginetta feels much more "pointy" turning into corners. Also, unless your Caterham had a full cage, the Ginetta has a more rigid and crash-worthy structure. Overall, the G40 has a lot of potential and is let down mainly by details which Caterham had years to develop out. It depends how patient you are to get the inevitable niggles sorted.
I think that should be enough to give you an idea. Maybe you could take a trip to the factory in Leeds, if they have a car you could try. They stopped making the Duratec car now, but a Zetec car is the same except for the reduced power.
PS, if buying secondhand, try to find a private sale from an enthusiastic owner. These cars are so rare and there is no dealer network, so most dealers won't have a clue about all the details and niggles that a knowledgeable private seller could provide.
Edited by jwoffshore on Monday 11th December 23:46
jwoffshore said:
Mines in pieces at the moment for an engine swap. If you're thinking of using it as a road car around Aberdeen, don't! It's a race car adapted for the road and the corrosion projection, general quality of components, heating/ventilation/air con are not up to it. The powder coating on the chassis is very poor. Mines done about 2500 miles in mostly summer conditions and the coating is lifting in high impact areas already. Winter roads with salt and slush will wreck it in no time. Also, with about 4" ground clearance it does not like rough roads.
If on the other hand you are going to save it for high days and holidays and track use, go ahead.
Apart from the roof and boot, it's not really any more of a practical road car than your Caterham. It's not a car for wide people or women in skirts!
The Duratec powered car goes alright, but in standard form suffers from a power band narrower than the gap between 2nd / 3rd gear. This gets to be tiresome on track when accelerating up hills. There should be a Quaife close ratio gear kit from Raceline available sometime next year which will be a big help. Or you could spend half the cost of the car again on a 2.5 litre engine, which is what I am up to.
The Zetec powered cars are pretty gutless in my opinion.
I'm 6'2" and with a helmet on it's just about OK. That is with the race buckets mounted as low as possible, not the road seats. In fact, the factory had to make special seat mounts at my request to put the seat low enough for me.
At 6'4" you might have problems, depending on if your extra 2" comes mainly in your body or your legs. Leg room is OK for me and the seat is probably a couple of notches forwards from the rearmost position.
I'm several hundred miles south of you, so I can't offer you a try out in mine unfortunately.
I have driven Caterhams on track and, due to sitting so far back, the front end feel seemed remote to me. The Ginetta feels much more "pointy" turning into corners. Also, unless your Caterham had a full cage, the Ginetta has a more rigid and crash-worthy structure. Overall, the G40 has a lot of potential and is let down mainly by details which Caterham had years to develop out. It depends how patient you are to get the inevitable niggles sorted.
I think that should be enough to give you an idea. Maybe you could take a trip to the factory in Leeds, if they have a car you could try. They stopped making the Duratec car now, but a Zetec car is the same except for the reduced power.
PS, if buying secondhand, try to find a private sale from an enthusiastic owner. These cars are so rare and there is no dealer network, so most dealers won't have a clue about all the details and niggles that a knowledgeable private seller could provide.
Thanks for your comments - Very helpful.If on the other hand you are going to save it for high days and holidays and track use, go ahead.
Apart from the roof and boot, it's not really any more of a practical road car than your Caterham. It's not a car for wide people or women in skirts!
The Duratec powered car goes alright, but in standard form suffers from a power band narrower than the gap between 2nd / 3rd gear. This gets to be tiresome on track when accelerating up hills. There should be a Quaife close ratio gear kit from Raceline available sometime next year which will be a big help. Or you could spend half the cost of the car again on a 2.5 litre engine, which is what I am up to.
The Zetec powered cars are pretty gutless in my opinion.
I'm 6'2" and with a helmet on it's just about OK. That is with the race buckets mounted as low as possible, not the road seats. In fact, the factory had to make special seat mounts at my request to put the seat low enough for me.
At 6'4" you might have problems, depending on if your extra 2" comes mainly in your body or your legs. Leg room is OK for me and the seat is probably a couple of notches forwards from the rearmost position.
I'm several hundred miles south of you, so I can't offer you a try out in mine unfortunately.
I have driven Caterhams on track and, due to sitting so far back, the front end feel seemed remote to me. The Ginetta feels much more "pointy" turning into corners. Also, unless your Caterham had a full cage, the Ginetta has a more rigid and crash-worthy structure. Overall, the G40 has a lot of potential and is let down mainly by details which Caterham had years to develop out. It depends how patient you are to get the inevitable niggles sorted.
I think that should be enough to give you an idea. Maybe you could take a trip to the factory in Leeds, if they have a car you could try. They stopped making the Duratec car now, but a Zetec car is the same except for the reduced power.
PS, if buying secondhand, try to find a private sale from an enthusiastic owner. These cars are so rare and there is no dealer network, so most dealers won't have a clue about all the details and niggles that a knowledgeable private seller could provide.
Edited by jwoffshore on Monday 11th December 23:46
I do with my Caterham what Ginetta advertise the G40r as - A race car for the road but having down a couple of road trips in the rain and wanting to take my children for the odd run in out in the car the lack of roof limits opportunities.
I am used to things raw having had a couple of westfields and now my caterham so not expecting porsche cayman levels of comfort but I want an analog car that I can perhaps use a little more without fear of getting caught out with the weather and without having to wear 2 jackets going for longer drives. Also, being able to lock the car is handy as at the moment when I go for a run with folk I end up having to put stuff in others cars when we park up etc.
Disappointing to hear of issues with the powdercoating though. Certainly a nice day and weekend car for me but equally don't want it deteriorating just by using the car as intended.
Height wise I do have a long body but had thought it looked ok head room wise from videos I had seen etc. If I fit in a s2 lotus (Just) I thought it looked more roomy. Knee room between wheel and the sill was problem with lotus. Ok for driving but caused issues for heel/toe.
I was looking to get in to a 'proper car' but they all feel fat and dull compared to the caterham which is what interested me in the ginetta. I like to be a little different also.
Have seen a few for sale on pistonheads in the past but is there anywhere else to look for any for sale? Racecarsdirect seemed to throw up some results but just of GRDC cars that I could see.
Cheers,
Dave
Im 6.2" and fit fine depending on wether you are more leg or uppper boddy you may fit fine. But I found tilting the seat back helps me a lot for my budy sape and my dad who is 6'6" also fit.
My car is south manchester if you are about and would like a look.
Any chance you can post a build thread of the engin swap?
My car is south manchester if you are about and would like a look.
Any chance you can post a build thread of the engin swap?
Edited by ceebmoj on Tuesday 12th December 13:04
ceebmoj said:
Any chance you can post a build thread of the engin swap?
I'd don't have the energy to do a blow-by-blow diary, but I'll post some pictures up once the engine is running. I'm still waiting on the correct cam cover. Won't be until next year now. Frankly, I am worn out with the catalogue of misadventures I have been through to get this seemingly simple idea on the road. Hopefully it will work out OK in the end.Edited by ceebmoj on Tuesday 12th December 13:04
jwoffshore said:
ceebmoj said:
Any chance you can post a build thread of the engin swap?
I'd don't have the energy to do a blow-by-blow diary, but I'll post some pictures up once the engine is running. I'm still waiting on the correct cam cover. Won't be until next year now. Frankly, I am worn out with the catalogue of misadventures I have been through to get this seemingly simple idea on the road. Hopefully it will work out OK in the end.Edited by ceebmoj on Tuesday 12th December 13:04
I'm not sure of the best way to say this, but learning from your misadventures is my goal. I would very much like to go 2.5 and step up in power as well.
D7PNY said:
Meant to ask, is the power band not something that a decent map could resolve?
Dave
I don't think so, the map seems pretty much spot on, all runs very cleanly. I think the problem is mechanical:Dave
1. The exhaust manifold does not have tuned lengths. It is just a crude, very short branch 4-1. This connects straight into a cat which runs down behind the front wheel. I think this is responsible for a big hole in the torque curve. It would need a decent long branch 4-2-1 which would require some hacking about of the body inner panels behind the front wheel and the cat moving to the rear of the car.
2. The rev limit is set to 7000rpm to keep safe with the standard rods & pistons. You could probably squeak it up a bit to maybe 7250 or 7500, but to do the job properly would need new rods & pistons. I wasn't going to all that trouble when a large part of the cost of a new 2.5 engine is the rods and pistons anyway.
I have a 2015 car and it is generally brilliant. It does need more power though and I will be building a more powerful engine next year to drop in.
I have had ginettas, westfields, caterham, TVR, porsche etc and this makes me smile more often.
It depends what you want it for, i wiildn’t Want to use it everyday like I did with the Porsches but then when I do use it it is more fun for that time than the all rounders were.
I actually think it is pretty well built for what it is - better than the tvr t350 was - except the exhaust which is a poor design and will be replaced.
I have had ginettas, westfields, caterham, TVR, porsche etc and this makes me smile more often.
It depends what you want it for, i wiildn’t Want to use it everyday like I did with the Porsches but then when I do use it it is more fun for that time than the all rounders were.
I actually think it is pretty well built for what it is - better than the tvr t350 was - except the exhaust which is a poor design and will be replaced.
jamesG20V6 said:
I have a 2015 car and it is generally brilliant. It does need more power though and I will be building a more powerful engine next year to drop in.
I have had ginettas, westfields, caterham, TVR, porsche etc and this makes me smile more often.
It depends what you want it for, i wiildn’t Want to use it everyday like I did with the Porsches but then when I do use it it is more fun for that time than the all rounders were.
I actually think it is pretty well built for what it is - better than the tvr t350 was - except the exhaust which is a poor design and will be replaced.
Thanks, useful insight with you coming from similar car history.I have had ginettas, westfields, caterham, TVR, porsche etc and this makes me smile more often.
It depends what you want it for, i wiildn’t Want to use it everyday like I did with the Porsches but then when I do use it it is more fun for that time than the all rounders were.
I actually think it is pretty well built for what it is - better than the tvr t350 was - except the exhaust which is a poor design and will be replaced.
It's a sunny day and weekend thing for me. Have a great back road on my route to work which is great in the caterham but I find myself not being bothered to take it sometimes as caterham too much hassle to park up, empty my belongings out etc (car has to get parked on street outside my office And sometimes I don't get a space in view).
When you say it needs more power? Is that in relation to the faster stuff you've had (ie the t350) or kusst in general?
I had figured it should be comparable to a lotus elise r or n/a exige which whilst not the fastest in a straught line would get along the road nicely? Certainly wouldnt want it to be massively slower than my caterham although I know it will be slower obviously.
I was hoping that with it being a duratec engine it would be relatively easy to increase the power slightly in time.
Dave
Ref ECU, mine has SCS Tornado ECU - an older model than current Delta range. SCS have been very helpful so far and the required PC software is free to download. Then you need a CAN-USB interface which is about £100 plus VAT etc.
SCS also offer an Ecoboost specific ECU. I think perhaps they are ex-Lotus guys and they certainly do know what they are doing.
I did look at supercharged and turbo'd options, but the re-engineering and extra cooling equipment was looking like a protracted process, so it was simpler to go for a swap to 2.5 litre with the same basic Duratec engine type. This means that engine mounts, gearbox, front end ancilliaries are all a straight swap.
Somebody asking about power levels with the 2.0 engine. It's OK, just that the power band is narrow and the gearbox has too wide ratios to keep it in the sweet spot. You won't notice so much on the road, but on track it bogs down going from 2nd to 3rd gear.
SCS also offer an Ecoboost specific ECU. I think perhaps they are ex-Lotus guys and they certainly do know what they are doing.
I did look at supercharged and turbo'd options, but the re-engineering and extra cooling equipment was looking like a protracted process, so it was simpler to go for a swap to 2.5 litre with the same basic Duratec engine type. This means that engine mounts, gearbox, front end ancilliaries are all a straight swap.
Somebody asking about power levels with the 2.0 engine. It's OK, just that the power band is narrow and the gearbox has too wide ratios to keep it in the sweet spot. You won't notice so much on the road, but on track it bogs down going from 2nd to 3rd gear.
Don’t get me wrong it is a fun car. It is comparable to my s2 111R both in performance and handling - it really is a sharp and well balanced car set up properly.
Handling wise it is far better drive than the tvrs I had, much more advance suspension design and far superior chassis - as I said comparable to the Elise. Build quality beyond the tvrs too - mostly - it is a well thought out car. Other than the exhaust
The problem I have is that my previous car was 310bhp and 750kgs and so coming from that I guess anything is going to feel a bit more tame, but it is a fun quick car in its own right. It just feels as though it could cope with a lot more power - almost begging for it!
I am enjoying it very much and I use it a lot more, and go much further in it than I did in the Westfield and open top ginettas I had previously.
Handling wise it is far better drive than the tvrs I had, much more advance suspension design and far superior chassis - as I said comparable to the Elise. Build quality beyond the tvrs too - mostly - it is a well thought out car. Other than the exhaust
The problem I have is that my previous car was 310bhp and 750kgs and so coming from that I guess anything is going to feel a bit more tame, but it is a fun quick car in its own right. It just feels as though it could cope with a lot more power - almost begging for it!
I am enjoying it very much and I use it a lot more, and go much further in it than I did in the Westfield and open top ginettas I had previously.
Edited by jamesG20V6 on Friday 22 December 14:55
jamesG20V6 said:
Don’t get me wrong it is a fun car. It is comparable to my s2 111R both in performance and handling - it really is a sharp and well balanced car set up properly.
Handling wise it is far better drive than the tvrs I had, much more advance suspension design and far superior chassis - as I said comparable to the Elise. Build quality beyond the tvrs too - mostly - it is a well thought out car. Other than the exhaust
The problem I have is that my previous car was 310bhp and 750kgs and so coming from that I guess anything is going to feel a bit more tame, but it is a fun quick car in its own right. It just feels as though it could cope with a lot more power - almost begging for it!
I am enjoying it very much and I use it a lot more, and go much further in it than I did in the Westfield and open top ginettas I had previously.
Thanks, that sums up what I thought the car would be.Handling wise it is far better drive than the tvrs I had, much more advance suspension design and far superior chassis - as I said comparable to the Elise. Build quality beyond the tvrs too - mostly - it is a well thought out car. Other than the exhaust
The problem I have is that my previous car was 310bhp and 750kgs and so coming from that I guess anything is going to feel a bit more tame, but it is a fun quick car in its own right. It just feels as though it could cope with a lot more power - almost begging for it!
I am enjoying it very much and I use it a lot more, and go much further in it than I did in the Westfield and open top ginettas I had previously.
Edited by jamesG20V6 on Friday 22 December 14:55
With it being a duratec engine I guess a bit more power is accessible down the line with a bit of cash obviously.
I have managed to source one and due to pick it up in January so thanks for all the pointers guys 😎
Dave
Awesome. Is it white?
Check suspension set up when you get it. Mine was very twitchy. Took it to Track developments to see what was going on and it had been set up very aggressively for track use to eliminate any option of understeer and once it snapped sideways it really snapped. Now set up for road compliance and it is a joy.
It also had 800lb springs and shocks set to stiffest setting....
Check suspension set up when you get it. Mine was very twitchy. Took it to Track developments to see what was going on and it had been set up very aggressively for track use to eliminate any option of understeer and once it snapped sideways it really snapped. Now set up for road compliance and it is a joy.
It also had 800lb springs and shocks set to stiffest setting....
Edited by jamesG20V6 on Sunday 24th December 07:53
jamesG20V6 said:
Awesome. Is it white?
Check suspension set up when you get it. Mine was very twitchy. Took it to Track developments to see what was going on and it had been set up very aggressively for track use to eliminate any option of understeer and once it snapped sideways it really snapped. Now set up for road compliance and it is a joy.
It also had 800lb springs and shocks set to stiffest setting....
It's not the white one on pistonheads. It's actually through the factory sporting some rather interesting livery (painted) which may well end up getting wrapped. Taking it with the livery as part of me quite likes it and the story behind it. The other part of me would like to blend in 'slightly' more. By taking it as it is I can decide at a later date I figured.Check suspension set up when you get it. Mine was very twitchy. Took it to Track developments to see what was going on and it had been set up very aggressively for track use to eliminate any option of understeer and once it snapped sideways it really snapped. Now set up for road compliance and it is a joy.
It also had 800lb springs and shocks set to stiffest setting....
Edited by jamesG20V6 on Sunday 24th December 07:53
Its a 2014 car with around 8k miles. I'll be sure to ask about setup as it's going through the factory workshop before i get it.
Caterham getting collected on 8th Jan now so will hopefully be making the trip down south to ginetta at some point in Jan to as soon as the car is ready.
Dave
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