G40R MOT emisions

G40R MOT emisions

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Discussion

ceebmoj

Original Poster:

1,898 posts

268 months

Tuesday 27th June 2017
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Im having my G40R MOTed today and it seams to be failing on CO2. Looking back at the MOT history it seams to have failed on this in the past and then come in to speck. does any one have any advice for how to improve the CO2?

giff

13 posts

244 months

Tuesday 27th June 2017
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Shot of Redex and a good spanking?

blitzracing

6,409 posts

227 months

Friday 30th June 2017
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Does the car run catalysts- Id assume so? The ECU should keep the mixture in trim to keep the CO low, but it has run the fuel in a cycle rich / lean around a mid point of 14.7:1 air fuel ratio to make the catalyst work and this is what the lambda sensors do by constantly measuring the exhaust oxygen level, and trimming the mixture to keep everything spot on. If CO is high, the mixture is not being controlled correctly in the first place, or the catalyst has become fouled for some reason, even something as simple as Silicon sealant, or high zinc oils can contaminate the catalyst or lambda probes. There are some good catalyst cleaners out there you add to the fuel that raise the temperature of the catalysts to burn of any contaminants (with a good thrashing as well) that are worth a go first off' but if this fails you should be able to plug the ecu into an OBD reader to see what the lambda cycling sensor values and fuel trim values are doing. It may be "Race" but there is no reason for it to fail MOT emissions in the process. There is a bit of a myth that you can have "race" fuel maps, normally putting in a load more fuel (and high CO) but this is just bad practice- you can have a car that passes MOT's quite happily at sub 3500 RPM, but can give you full power when you need it. I dont know the spec' on the G40R engine, but if it runs a long duration cam, the emissions may well be marginal at low RPM as the engine breathing is poor at low RPM and does lead to a clean burn. Worth checking the ignition timing as well.

jwoffshore

460 posts

261 months

Tuesday 17th October 2017
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The OP does not say whether he had passable emissions in the end. Yesterday I took my G40R to my local sympathetic tester for its first MOT. In the end, no special sympathy was required. It sat there at about 1000rpm idle and everything came up green first time.

All I did in advance was remove the V section clamp around the manifold/cat joint and seal that joint properly with some exhaust paste. It's been blowing out of there from new.

jamesG20V6

873 posts

264 months

Wednesday 18th October 2017
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Interesting to note - the clamp you mention seems a weak point on mine too - it seems to allow the joint to slip. If there is a leak at that point the lambda sensor will be get weird readings that would lead it to it wanting more fuel = bad emissions.

ceebmoj

Original Poster:

1,898 posts

268 months

Wednesday 18th October 2017
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When I returned for a retest I passed the MOT. I had tightened the V band clamp.

I have seen a technical bulletin about the fuel pressure regulator being set incorrectly on some cars leadding to over fuelling could this contribute?

jwoffshore

460 posts

261 months

Wednesday 18th October 2017
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Ah, so the V clamp seems to be a common problem. Even with the clamp tight, the actual joint is only a metal-to-metal conical seat with no gasket. Some exhaust paste did the trick and stopped the constant blowing for me.

Ref the fuel pressure, I don't think slight excess pressure would cause problems at idle, because then it should be on closed-loop control using the lambda sensor. However, at higher revs and loads when it is fuelling according to the map, yes it would cause a rich mixture. That might explain why mine guzzles fuel and the exhaust is quite sooty. Maybe I have that problem.

Can you send me the technical bulletin please? I will send you a PM.

jamesG20V6

873 posts

264 months

Wednesday 18th October 2017
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I am still learning my way with the G40 but I wonder whether they do actually run closed loop?

Quite often in the past I have seen cars mapped and then the lambda effectively turned off.

jwoffshore

460 posts

261 months

Wednesday 18th October 2017
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I think it will be closed loop on idle only, then as per map under driving conditions, but I could easily be wrong! I guess I will find out when my new 2.5 litre engine finally shows up and then needs mapping.

jamesG20V6

873 posts

264 months

Wednesday 18th October 2017
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Sounds good - I take it is a 2.5 duratec? what power output are you hoping for? Hi

I haven’t had a poke around to see what ecu the zetec is running yet.

Edited by jamesG20V6 on Wednesday 18th October 19:11

jamesG20V6

873 posts

264 months

Wednesday 18th October 2017
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A quick question - main beam lights - do they operate from the pulling the indicator stalk forward / backwards as you would expect? I don’t seem to have main beam and have no power at the light - I just wanted to check that is how they work before I start investigating.

Sorry for the thread hijack...

jwoffshore

460 posts

261 months

Wednesday 18th October 2017
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Hi James. The ECU for Zetec I think is different to Duratec, due to cable throttle instead of electrical throttle. You should find it somewhere under the left side of the dash. Power from 2.5 litre should be high 200's, maybe around 270 with the cams chosen for my engine. A lot also depends on the exhaust. The standard G40R manifold is only crude short branch plumbing and there is not much room to fit a full long branch tuned one. Engine job has been dragging on for a year or so due to problems with sump supply. I can see some light at the end of the tunnel now

Ref your lights, yes the main beam is controlled from the left column stalk. There are some CAN bus relay boxes behind the central switch panel. My car was lacking dip beam early in its life. One of the relay boxes was faulty and was replaced at the factory. However, sometimes the software in these relay boxes gets "confused". Powering down the whole car by disconnecting the battery might reset them.

jamesG20V6

873 posts

264 months

Thursday 19th October 2017
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270bhp sounds like fun. The car will be a lot of fun with that amount of power.

Thanks for the info I will find time to investigate the main beam.

I don’t suppose anyone has a wiring diagram?

ceebmoj

Original Poster:

1,898 posts

268 months

Thursday 19th October 2017
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jwoffshore said:
Hi James. The ECU for Zetec I think is different to Duratec, due to cable throttle instead of electrical throttle. You should find it somewhere under the left side of the dash. Power from 2.5 litre should be high 200's, maybe around 270 with the cams chosen for my engine. A lot also depends on the exhaust. The standard G40R manifold is only crude short branch plumbing and there is not much room to fit a full long branch tuned one. Engine job has been dragging on for a year or so due to problems with sump supply. I can see some light at the end of the tunnel now
Build thread please. I love my G40R and cant see anything else I want and can sensibly afford so an option to add anything like that much naturally aspirated power to the car would be amazing.

My 2.0 Duratec car has a traditional throttle cable and throttle position sensor.

jwoffshore

460 posts

261 months

Thursday 19th October 2017
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ceebmoj said:
Build thread please. I love my G40R and cant see anything else I want and can sensibly afford so an option to add anything like that much naturally aspirated power to the car would be amazing.

My 2.0 Duratec car has a traditional throttle cable and throttle position sensor.
OK, I'll make a start with a topic when I finally get my hands on the engine. It's been "just around the corner" for ages now, but each piece of progress comes very slow.

Yours must be an early Duratec car, whereas mine is one of the last few they built. By that time the electronic throttle was standard.

jwoffshore

460 posts

261 months

Thursday 19th October 2017
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jamesG20V6 said:


I don’t suppose anyone has a wiring diagram?
I do have some partial diagrams. They are not great, but better than nothing. Drop me a PM and I can send them to you.

ceebmoj

Original Poster:

1,898 posts

268 months

Friday 20th October 2017
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jwoffshore said:
Yours must be an early Duratec car, whereas mine is one of the last few they built. By that time the electronic throttle was standard.
Yep car no 2. I guess its another difference between the cars.

Do you know which ECU is fitted? Presumably it can be reprogrammed, the throttle pedal could be changed, and potentially the ECU may also support traction control?

jwoffshore

460 posts

261 months

Friday 20th October 2017
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ceebmoj said:
Do you know which ECU is fitted? Presumably it can be reprogrammed, the throttle pedal could be changed, and potentially the ECU may also support traction control?
The ECU is my car is an SCS Tornado 2. This is the company https://www.scs-delta.co.uk/

This is the ECU for throttle-by-wire and it will also support VVT. If your's is a cable throttle, you may have the same ECU as the Zetec cars. Only way to find out is to get under the dash.

atomic69

13 posts

175 months

Saturday 18th November 2017
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jamesG20V6 said:
Sounds good - I take it is a 2.5 duratec? what power output are you hoping for? Hi

I haven’t had a poke around to see what ecu the zetec is running yet.

Edited by jamesG20V6 on Wednesday 18th October 19:11
The Ecu used for the newer Zetec engined cars is the SCS Delta 400. The Tornado ecu range has now been replaced by a the Delta range.
https://www.scs-delta.co.uk/ginetta-cars
https://www.scs-delta.co.uk/delta-ecu-range


Edited by atomic69 on Saturday 18th November 15:46

kwak82

24 posts

195 months

Wednesday 31st January 2018
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Seems to be some small differences between cars. Mine is a very early 2012 car and has electronic throttle not cable.

Also mine is very rich. Sooty exhaust and has burnt out two cats. Now have a cat replacement pipe and it seems to run strongly.