Buying a car in NY
Discussion
It looks like I'll be spending some extended periods in the USA and need to get myself some wheels - would rather buy than rent and believe if I look hard enough I can get insurance to cover a foreigner (some reports that Progressive can do it over the phone, possibly also Geico or a local broker). We're renting a place, so will have an address but no SSN as I won't be formally staying in the US (at least not initially - may go that route if this inspires enough business to justify it) and no US driving license.....so my questions.....assuming I can source insurance:
1. Where is the best place to buy a reasonable used car? Looking for something which will be reliable but don't want to get ripped off....should I just go to one of the numerous "auto-mall" type dealerships
2. Will be paying cash, or credit card (as I assume no-one will give credit to a foreigner without a SSN) - will this give me bargaining power in todays economy? Or are the sticker prices pretty much what you'll pay?
3. What should I buy - its going to be Westchester area of NY so can be snowy in the winter - should I be looking at a 4x4/SUV style or is a simple Focus style thing. Not looking for driving experience here; functional, reliable and price are key - have previously rented a pontiac G6 which was a reasonble enough car and I seem to be able to get one of these in fairly recent model years with <30,000 on the clock for around the $12,000 mark.....given these criteria what is a good functional car which will get me from A to B reliably, work in the winter, not be too big or difficult to park (my Mrs will be there also!)....what would you be looking at?
1. Where is the best place to buy a reasonable used car? Looking for something which will be reliable but don't want to get ripped off....should I just go to one of the numerous "auto-mall" type dealerships
2. Will be paying cash, or credit card (as I assume no-one will give credit to a foreigner without a SSN) - will this give me bargaining power in todays economy? Or are the sticker prices pretty much what you'll pay?
3. What should I buy - its going to be Westchester area of NY so can be snowy in the winter - should I be looking at a 4x4/SUV style or is a simple Focus style thing. Not looking for driving experience here; functional, reliable and price are key - have previously rented a pontiac G6 which was a reasonble enough car and I seem to be able to get one of these in fairly recent model years with <30,000 on the clock for around the $12,000 mark.....given these criteria what is a good functional car which will get me from A to B reliably, work in the winter, not be too big or difficult to park (my Mrs will be there also!)....what would you be looking at?
steve.c said:
Can't help on what to buy but also remember you will need to sit a driving test to obtain a Ny state driver license, your UK one is only valid for a short while when driving over there.
Can drive legally on the UK one for up to a year, so not an issue - if we're there anywhere near that time then I'd be getting a visa and sitting the test....so this is for the first 3 to 6 months initially...GreigM said:
steve.c said:
Can't help on what to buy but also remember you will need to sit a driving test to obtain a Ny state driver license, your UK one is only valid for a short while when driving over there.
Can drive legally on the UK one for up to a year, so not an issue - if we're there anywhere near that time then I'd be getting a visa and sitting the test....so this is for the first 3 to 6 months initially...Since 9/11 a number of states have made life difficult in this regard.
As far as the vehicle goes I live in Detroit with a 5 month winter. We have a Ford Explorer and a Ford Fusion. Both are very good in snow.
For the money you are going to spend you can buy a brand new car, not secondhand, because with those mileages in the snow you will definitely need to shell out for a new set of all season tyres.
I'm in the trade in the NYC area, I probably don't deal in what you want, but can point you in the direction of people who won't rob you or be happy to help if I can.
1) Depends largely what you want. Late model stuff? Probably a dealer. I know quite a few people who have used car lots who are trustworthy, it largely depends on what kind of car you wish to buy. Personally I'd get something amusing, Petrol is cheap here!
2) Haggling happens, if I had to guess on a used car advertised at a dealer for $11,995 you would expect to pay around $11,000 plus tax and registration. In NY State it's about $100 or so for plates and reg, $20 or so for NY State Inspection (MOT) and a $45 max dealer documentary fee (They ALL charge it). Sales tax is based on where you live, Westchester County is approximately 7.375 if I recall, about the lowest in the state. Most dealers in NY issue number plates on the spot. Unlike the UK, number plates don't stay with the car for life as a rule (California is an exception), they tend to stay with the owner. You MUST have Insurance ID cards with a barcode on them to take delivery in NY State without exception.
If you do not have a NY State driver's license (You may be able to get one with a work Visa, ask your local DMV office) you will need additional ID, copies of your passport, UK license, major credit card, etc. It's a 12-point ID system.
You are right about finance, you will never get it. Even if you got a SS# you won't have any credit history here, American Banks likely won't give you a car loan, if you get one, expect APR of 20%. Also, my experience has been that they won't give you a loan that exceeds the time on your Visa, and if you're here for a year... well, basically forget it.
You'll also find that used cars are pricier here than in the UK, there's no such thing as a serviceable car for 500 quid like you can get in the UK, a 10 year old Volvo 850 that's 500 pounds in Britain is $3500 here.
As far as weather goes, yes we do get a LOT more snow than, say, London ever does, but you'll find than we can get 6-8" of snow overnight and the roads are largely clear the next morning. Most any car sold here will have all-season tyres on it, most people don't run snows. FWD isn't as much of a help as you would think. It's not normal for cars to have FSH over here, Americans tend to service their cars far more frequently than Europeans do, but a used car with an FSH is going to be the exception rather than the rule. When I ran the used car department of a large luxury car dealership out of the 30 certified used cars on the lot, I doubt a single one had a stamp in their service books. That's the norm, be prepared for it. New York State Law requires dealers to warranty any car with under 100,000 miles on it, 90 days or 4k miles for under 36k miles, 60 days or 3k miles for 36,001 miles-80,000 miles and 30 days or 1,000 miles for any car with under 100k on it but more than 80k. They can not legally waive this rule.
If I had $12k to spend on a used car and just wanted basic transportation I would look at something made by GM, probably a 2 year old or so Impala, Grand Prix, etc. If you want something a bit more fun, perhaps an 04 Cadillac CTS might be doable for around that money. American Focuses are cheap, and not as nice as Euro ones. Small cars here are purchased because they are cheap and good on gas, anyone who wants a "nice" car buys something big. IE, there's no Focus Ghias here, but a typical Focus will still have cruise, power locks and windows. Basically everything has Air Con.
You might consider a Nissan Altima, they are inoffensive and cheap enough used. Ford Fusions are nice cars for the money as well, they are a bit bigger than a Mondeo. Chryslers are really best avoided unless you get a 300 or a Dodge Charger or something.
Insurance tends to be based here more on whether or not the car is fast or high performence than whether or not it's got a big engine. Also theft-magnet cars can get charged high premiums. A 6.0L Chevrolet Tahoe is going to be much cheaper to insure than a 1.8L Integra.
Hope this helps! Feel free to E-Mail me if you need any advice.
1) Depends largely what you want. Late model stuff? Probably a dealer. I know quite a few people who have used car lots who are trustworthy, it largely depends on what kind of car you wish to buy. Personally I'd get something amusing, Petrol is cheap here!
2) Haggling happens, if I had to guess on a used car advertised at a dealer for $11,995 you would expect to pay around $11,000 plus tax and registration. In NY State it's about $100 or so for plates and reg, $20 or so for NY State Inspection (MOT) and a $45 max dealer documentary fee (They ALL charge it). Sales tax is based on where you live, Westchester County is approximately 7.375 if I recall, about the lowest in the state. Most dealers in NY issue number plates on the spot. Unlike the UK, number plates don't stay with the car for life as a rule (California is an exception), they tend to stay with the owner. You MUST have Insurance ID cards with a barcode on them to take delivery in NY State without exception.
If you do not have a NY State driver's license (You may be able to get one with a work Visa, ask your local DMV office) you will need additional ID, copies of your passport, UK license, major credit card, etc. It's a 12-point ID system.
You are right about finance, you will never get it. Even if you got a SS# you won't have any credit history here, American Banks likely won't give you a car loan, if you get one, expect APR of 20%. Also, my experience has been that they won't give you a loan that exceeds the time on your Visa, and if you're here for a year... well, basically forget it.
You'll also find that used cars are pricier here than in the UK, there's no such thing as a serviceable car for 500 quid like you can get in the UK, a 10 year old Volvo 850 that's 500 pounds in Britain is $3500 here.
As far as weather goes, yes we do get a LOT more snow than, say, London ever does, but you'll find than we can get 6-8" of snow overnight and the roads are largely clear the next morning. Most any car sold here will have all-season tyres on it, most people don't run snows. FWD isn't as much of a help as you would think. It's not normal for cars to have FSH over here, Americans tend to service their cars far more frequently than Europeans do, but a used car with an FSH is going to be the exception rather than the rule. When I ran the used car department of a large luxury car dealership out of the 30 certified used cars on the lot, I doubt a single one had a stamp in their service books. That's the norm, be prepared for it. New York State Law requires dealers to warranty any car with under 100,000 miles on it, 90 days or 4k miles for under 36k miles, 60 days or 3k miles for 36,001 miles-80,000 miles and 30 days or 1,000 miles for any car with under 100k on it but more than 80k. They can not legally waive this rule.
If I had $12k to spend on a used car and just wanted basic transportation I would look at something made by GM, probably a 2 year old or so Impala, Grand Prix, etc. If you want something a bit more fun, perhaps an 04 Cadillac CTS might be doable for around that money. American Focuses are cheap, and not as nice as Euro ones. Small cars here are purchased because they are cheap and good on gas, anyone who wants a "nice" car buys something big. IE, there's no Focus Ghias here, but a typical Focus will still have cruise, power locks and windows. Basically everything has Air Con.
You might consider a Nissan Altima, they are inoffensive and cheap enough used. Ford Fusions are nice cars for the money as well, they are a bit bigger than a Mondeo. Chryslers are really best avoided unless you get a 300 or a Dodge Charger or something.
Insurance tends to be based here more on whether or not the car is fast or high performence than whether or not it's got a big engine. Also theft-magnet cars can get charged high premiums. A 6.0L Chevrolet Tahoe is going to be much cheaper to insure than a 1.8L Integra.
Hope this helps! Feel free to E-Mail me if you need any advice.
Edited by MrVelox on Friday 31st October 03:22
Greig -the only thing I would add to Mr Veloxs' post is that there occasionally IS a way you can get credit without a prior US credit history. When I moved over to the US in '99, my company basically wrote to Ford Credit confirming my UK employment history/salary etc and confirming all details of my US employment. Ford were fine with that and I secured a very attractive, very competitive rate on the car I leased - a V8 Mustang I have to this day and which I repatriated to the UK with me after 6 yrs in California. So all is not lost if you are there for a longer term...
Baz,
That used to be the case but the credit crunch has badly affected fincing for cars here at the moment. You hear a lot about the massive downfall in car sales here, and an awful lot of that is due to the severe tightening of credit. I'd say that at least half of the decline in car sales is due to people not being able to secure finance, not because they were unwilling to purchase.
The way to do it used to be to somewhat easy, if you had an SS#.. right now it's become very very difficult, Banks view loans like this as riskier than normal, and right now they aren't buying any risky paper.
That used to be the case but the credit crunch has badly affected fincing for cars here at the moment. You hear a lot about the massive downfall in car sales here, and an awful lot of that is due to the severe tightening of credit. I'd say that at least half of the decline in car sales is due to people not being able to secure finance, not because they were unwilling to purchase.
The way to do it used to be to somewhat easy, if you had an SS#.. right now it's become very very difficult, Banks view loans like this as riskier than normal, and right now they aren't buying any risky paper.
hmmm, yes I imagine even if I go down the L1 process and get a SSN it may take a loooooong time to get decent credit.
In the meantime I may be able to get one of my US friends to buy the car - is there a concept of a "named driver" on insurance policies - i.e. if he buys and insures the car can he add my name to the insurance to give me cover.....
In the meantime I may be able to get one of my US friends to buy the car - is there a concept of a "named driver" on insurance policies - i.e. if he buys and insures the car can he add my name to the insurance to give me cover.....
GreigM said:
hmmm, yes I imagine even if I go down the L1 process and get a SSN it may take a loooooong time to get decent credit.
In the meantime I may be able to get one of my US friends to buy the car - is there a concept of a "named driver" on insurance policies - i.e. if he buys and insures the car can he add my name to the insurance to give me cover.....
It depends on the policy, but most policies over here allow you to lend your car to other people, the coverage isn't so much on John Doe to drive Car X as it is John Doe has insured Car X.In the meantime I may be able to get one of my US friends to buy the car - is there a concept of a "named driver" on insurance policies - i.e. if he buys and insures the car can he add my name to the insurance to give me cover.....
However, if the car is going to be habitually driven by you then it might be an issue, but the chances of them proving that are slight. OTOH, the worst that will happen in the insured will have their coveraged dropped after a claim is paid.
You should not have too much trouble getting insurance, a letter from your UK insurer showing NCB would help, when I had to get insurance in the UK a letter from my agent over here got me full NCB.
Hey guys, so i have some first hand experience of this.
I can confirm that credit isn't the easiest to come by - i moved over here (CA and then NYC) on an L1 visa in 2003. I have a reasonably high paying job and the only credit card i could get initially was a bonded credit card. This invovles me putting 10k in a CD (long term savings account), and the bank graciously giving me a 10k credit limit on a card.
6 months later, i was having credit thrown at me. its just that first step which takes some doing..
Anyway - i bought a 8 year old Grand Cherokee with a thumping great 5.2 v8 (on Ebay) for something like 4k. has a high mileage, but i've added another 30k in 3 years without issues. It feels unstoppable and gets me through much worse weather than i could imagine in the UK. I tend to head up to Vermont skiing every other weekend in the winter, and it hasn't got stuck yet despite some atrocious conditions.. I actually bought mine in NJ, but close enough to NYC.
Insurance was steep. Geico were charging me ~3k/ year initially, but that rapidly came down with driving history. UK experience may have helped a bit, but its come down a lot since. I think the NY metro area is simply an expensive place to insure a car.
For info. a NJ driving license is very easy to obtain if you have a UK one (and live in NJ). You take a theory test and hand over 40 bucks, and they give you an NJ license for the duration of your visa (you need a visa). A NY one - harder. theory test and a 8 hour course followed by a practical test.
What else.
There are 2 common ways to value a car in the US. Kelly Blue book - kbb.com and Edmunds.com. There are huge price descrepancies (in the vehicles i was looking at) between the 2. like 50%. KBB said ~7k. Edmunds ~4k
There are sites where you can take over someones existing lease, which might be suitable... (although the credit history may be an issue here)
Long term rentals from Avis, Enterprise etc are surprisingly reasonable. I think starting @ circa 650/ month AND you may be able to get the basic insurance covered by your credit card if you go this route - i forget whether UK cards do it, but US cards typically cover the liability insurance on rental cars.
Hope this helps a little. If you do come over, its a great place to live!!!
Good luck
I can confirm that credit isn't the easiest to come by - i moved over here (CA and then NYC) on an L1 visa in 2003. I have a reasonably high paying job and the only credit card i could get initially was a bonded credit card. This invovles me putting 10k in a CD (long term savings account), and the bank graciously giving me a 10k credit limit on a card.
6 months later, i was having credit thrown at me. its just that first step which takes some doing..
Anyway - i bought a 8 year old Grand Cherokee with a thumping great 5.2 v8 (on Ebay) for something like 4k. has a high mileage, but i've added another 30k in 3 years without issues. It feels unstoppable and gets me through much worse weather than i could imagine in the UK. I tend to head up to Vermont skiing every other weekend in the winter, and it hasn't got stuck yet despite some atrocious conditions.. I actually bought mine in NJ, but close enough to NYC.
Insurance was steep. Geico were charging me ~3k/ year initially, but that rapidly came down with driving history. UK experience may have helped a bit, but its come down a lot since. I think the NY metro area is simply an expensive place to insure a car.
For info. a NJ driving license is very easy to obtain if you have a UK one (and live in NJ). You take a theory test and hand over 40 bucks, and they give you an NJ license for the duration of your visa (you need a visa). A NY one - harder. theory test and a 8 hour course followed by a practical test.
What else.
There are 2 common ways to value a car in the US. Kelly Blue book - kbb.com and Edmunds.com. There are huge price descrepancies (in the vehicles i was looking at) between the 2. like 50%. KBB said ~7k. Edmunds ~4k
There are sites where you can take over someones existing lease, which might be suitable... (although the credit history may be an issue here)
Long term rentals from Avis, Enterprise etc are surprisingly reasonable. I think starting @ circa 650/ month AND you may be able to get the basic insurance covered by your credit card if you go this route - i forget whether UK cards do it, but US cards typically cover the liability insurance on rental cars.
Hope this helps a little. If you do come over, its a great place to live!!!
Good luck
Craig,
You in Bergen County as well?
Also, re: Credit Cards, you know, some banks that issue cards in the UK also issue them in the USA, AmEx, Capital One, Barclays (I think)< Citibank, etc.
A quick call to them, and asking them if they will give you one in the USA based on your UK history can work wonders I am told.
You in Bergen County as well?
Also, re: Credit Cards, you know, some banks that issue cards in the UK also issue them in the USA, AmEx, Capital One, Barclays (I think)< Citibank, etc.
A quick call to them, and asking them if they will give you one in the USA based on your UK history can work wonders I am told.
One other credit card / bank option for UK to USA moves is HSBC. They have a dedicated service for this kind of thing and can help sort it out. They sort out the relationships between the various HSBC entities and get your accounts and cards / credit limits & histiry all sorted before you leave the UK. Thus you arrive in the USA with a decent credit limit and history. Of course there is a fee for this, think it's in the order of GBP 90 as a one time cost.
We're over for a couple of year son secondment and found the process very easy and very convienient to ensure we had a credit card with a decent limit on it. Also at the moment with very little USA credit history you might find lenders not so willing to lend.
HTH
Chris
We're over for a couple of year son secondment and found the process very easy and very convienient to ensure we had a credit card with a decent limit on it. Also at the moment with very little USA credit history you might find lenders not so willing to lend.
HTH
Chris
Er, think you have to bank with them for some time in the Uk before moving. I do not recall a stipulation on how long that is. Worth giving them a call just to talk it through. They do two services I am aware of, one holds your money at HSBC in Jersey and then you have local accounts in the countries you need e.g. Uk and USA. The other is where they simply talk to HSBC in the country you are going to and smooth over the setting up of a local aco
in the new country. This is the optino we went for and is the one where there is the fee payable. The other optino seemed free but you had to deposit a lot of cash in Jersey to get the free service.
On the Amex side of things Mrs CVP tried to move hers from a UK card to a US card and they have been most unhelpful so far but you may have better luck.
The one thign I have found since we've been here (March 08) is that dealing with anythign "system" related is an absolute ball ache. Until you get a social security number you are nobody and can't get bank aco, mobile phone, landline, TV service, broadband etc etc. You have to be living here for about 2 weeks before you can apply for a social security number and then it can take a further 2-4 weeks for the document to come through. Then you're off and away. Just be prepared for 4 weeks of not being able to get some services you'd take for granted elsewhere.
However on the flip side of the coin we have found NY to be superb in so many ways and the New Yorkers themselves that I have run into are generally a great bunch of folks, much more friendly and worldy-wise than the stereotypes would have you believe. Of course the fact that stereotypes exist means you do run into some total bellends, but that's just like London ! I would certainly make the same choice again to risk it and come here.
Chris
in the new country. This is the optino we went for and is the one where there is the fee payable. The other optino seemed free but you had to deposit a lot of cash in Jersey to get the free service.On the Amex side of things Mrs CVP tried to move hers from a UK card to a US card and they have been most unhelpful so far but you may have better luck.
The one thign I have found since we've been here (March 08) is that dealing with anythign "system" related is an absolute ball ache. Until you get a social security number you are nobody and can't get bank aco
, mobile phone, landline, TV service, broadband etc etc. You have to be living here for about 2 weeks before you can apply for a social security number and then it can take a further 2-4 weeks for the document to come through. Then you're off and away. Just be prepared for 4 weeks of not being able to get some services you'd take for granted elsewhere.However on the flip side of the coin we have found NY to be superb in so many ways and the New Yorkers themselves that I have run into are generally a great bunch of folks, much more friendly and worldy-wise than the stereotypes would have you believe. Of course the fact that stereotypes exist means you do run into some total bellends, but that's just like London ! I would certainly make the same choice again to risk it and come here.
Chris
I'm in Hudson County, but have several friends up in Bergen (Creskill area).
When i got here (Jan 2003), i'd been with HSBC in UK for near enough 25 years and they didn't help me at all. I only really tried at my local branch though, and i certainly wasn't persistent.
Amex were also no use (to me), i'd established an Amex in UK specifically for the purpose of building an Amex credit history so i could get one over here, and not only did it work work, but they won't tell you it doesn't work until you have filed an application. and filing an application that is subsequently refused means that all other lenders don't look favourably on your subsequent applications either... :-)
Fully agree on the friendly NY'ers. I spent time in Northern Cali before landing here and its great over there as well.
When i got here (Jan 2003), i'd been with HSBC in UK for near enough 25 years and they didn't help me at all. I only really tried at my local branch though, and i certainly wasn't persistent.
Amex were also no use (to me), i'd established an Amex in UK specifically for the purpose of building an Amex credit history so i could get one over here, and not only did it work work, but they won't tell you it doesn't work until you have filed an application. and filing an application that is subsequently refused means that all other lenders don't look favourably on your subsequent applications either... :-)
Fully agree on the friendly NY'ers. I spent time in Northern Cali before landing here and its great over there as well.
Re HSBC I only knew of the service because I'd seen some advertising on the TV and a couple of phamphlets in the local branch.
Mr V, I'm pretty sorted for most UK ex-pat needs, I can find Marmite in my local grocer and I've even located a source of Twiglets only 5 mins walk away, but if anyone out there can tell me where I can get proper back bacon from I'm sure some beer tokens can be found. We have tried Meyers of Keswick in the village but theirs is not the real McCoy, it's just watery danish bacon. To add insult to injury their black pudding is not good either
Cheers
Chris
Mr V, I'm pretty sorted for most UK ex-pat needs, I can find Marmite in my local grocer and I've even located a source of Twiglets only 5 mins walk away, but if anyone out there can tell me where I can get proper back bacon from I'm sure some beer tokens can be found. We have tried Meyers of Keswick in the village but theirs is not the real McCoy, it's just watery danish bacon. To add insult to injury their black pudding is not good either
Cheers
Chris
Craig, Mr Velox,
A little off topic, but I'd like to pick your brains, is there an easy way of converting a UK drivers licence to a NY one? As far as I know (and as you've confirmed), you have to do the theory test, and then spend the 8 hours trundling around with the 16 year olds in the drivers ed car, is there any form of short cut to this?
Thanks
A little off topic, but I'd like to pick your brains, is there an easy way of converting a UK drivers licence to a NY one? As far as I know (and as you've confirmed), you have to do the theory test, and then spend the 8 hours trundling around with the 16 year olds in the drivers ed car, is there any form of short cut to this?
Thanks
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