Discussion
Bit of a strange one I hope you US guys can help with?
A friend has a classic car he purchased in Florida about 10 years ago. He knows the person it was purchased from as they were the owner and he has the physical title document here in the UK but it still shows the previous owners name.
We think the title may have been transferred into my friends name but can’t find any record of it and he does not have a US address. In the past 10 years the car has been completely restored but the car and the restorer now seem to have vanished however we do know the car was finished. My friend still has all the invoices etc for the restoration works along with a bill of sale from when he purchased it.
From reading the DMV website it implies only the person on the title can get a duplicate or sell the car the vehicle but in reality is it possible for anyone to apply for a title and sell the car on? Can it also be taken out of state and sold?
We have tried Carfax reports etc but the chassis is pre 1981 and does not show up.
Any advice would be helpful
A friend has a classic car he purchased in Florida about 10 years ago. He knows the person it was purchased from as they were the owner and he has the physical title document here in the UK but it still shows the previous owners name.
We think the title may have been transferred into my friends name but can’t find any record of it and he does not have a US address. In the past 10 years the car has been completely restored but the car and the restorer now seem to have vanished however we do know the car was finished. My friend still has all the invoices etc for the restoration works along with a bill of sale from when he purchased it.
From reading the DMV website it implies only the person on the title can get a duplicate or sell the car the vehicle but in reality is it possible for anyone to apply for a title and sell the car on? Can it also be taken out of state and sold?
We have tried Carfax reports etc but the chassis is pre 1981 and does not show up.
Any advice would be helpful
From memory it would have had to be proven upon entry to the UK that everything was legal for your friend to be importing it and to pay any relevant duty/tax, also I seem to recall any title doesn't go with the vehicle mine didn't when I bought mine to ship to here (UK)
I'm sure someone will confirm or correct if I got it wrong
I'm sure someone will confirm or correct if I got it wrong
Possible a new title has been issued? Pretty easy in the US to get a new one if you're the registered owner. Car could then have been transferred and sold to someone else.
Is the back of the title/transfer title section been filled out into your friends name and signed by the seller/previous owner?
I'm sure those in the US can comment, but I'm sure you can request information from DMW, pay a small fee for vehicle details?
Is the back of the title/transfer title section been filled out into your friends name and signed by the seller/previous owner?
I'm sure those in the US can comment, but I'm sure you can request information from DMW, pay a small fee for vehicle details?
Edited by Rich_AR on Tuesday 15th February 00:27
As above I was thinking the physical title (document is here in the UK) is proof of ownership. We have also been in contact with the previous owner and he has not heard or done anything regarding the car / title since he sold it and is happy to try and help.
My main concern is the restorer somehow got / gets a title and has / try’s to sell the car on.
My main concern is the restorer somehow got / gets a title and has / try’s to sell the car on.
Having re-read this, it all sounds a bit odd.
Did your friend buy a car and receive a title document naming the previous owner - and then not do a transfer of title?
Does the title have the previous owner, as the current owner?
Has the vehicle now disappeared?
Are you still in contact with the previous owner?
Unfortunately cars do get sold without title from time to time - and if it's gone out-of-state it may be extremely difficult to trace it.
Unless it is a rare, highly valuable and easily recognizable vehicle, it may well have just been spirited away.
Was the restorer a recognized business, or just some shade-tree mechanic?
Did your friend buy a car and receive a title document naming the previous owner - and then not do a transfer of title?
Does the title have the previous owner, as the current owner?
Has the vehicle now disappeared?
Are you still in contact with the previous owner?
Unfortunately cars do get sold without title from time to time - and if it's gone out-of-state it may be extremely difficult to trace it.
Unless it is a rare, highly valuable and easily recognizable vehicle, it may well have just been spirited away.
Was the restorer a recognized business, or just some shade-tree mechanic?
Matt Harper said:
Having re-read this, it all sounds a bit odd.
Did your friend buy a car and receive a title document naming the previous owner - and then not do a transfer of title?
Does the title have the previous owner, as the current owner?
Has the vehicle now disappeared?
Are you still in contact with the previous owner?
Unfortunately cars do get sold without title from time to time - and if it's gone out-of-state it may be extremely difficult to trace it.
Unless it is a rare, highly valuable and easily recognizable vehicle, it may well have just been spirited away.
Was the restorer a recognized business, or just some shade-tree mechanic?
Surely the seller also informed the local DMV/state that they sold the vehicle and to the buyer (providing their details, even if non-US). The buyer should have the title as well, with the sellers signature in the transfer part on the back of the title etc if done correctly, ready to apply for a new title (or export).Did your friend buy a car and receive a title document naming the previous owner - and then not do a transfer of title?
Does the title have the previous owner, as the current owner?
Has the vehicle now disappeared?
Are you still in contact with the previous owner?
Unfortunately cars do get sold without title from time to time - and if it's gone out-of-state it may be extremely difficult to trace it.
Unless it is a rare, highly valuable and easily recognizable vehicle, it may well have just been spirited away.
Was the restorer a recognized business, or just some shade-tree mechanic?
Also - surely only the registered owner can apply for a replacement title? So did this 'seller' actually transfer it and inform DMV..... plus, if the buyer does not apply for a new title, the ownership status will not change.
It does sound rather fishy.
Matt - Curious is it possible to register an out-of-state vehicle without a title from another state (excluding imports here)?
Edited by Rich_AR on Tuesday 15th February 16:40
Hi,
Have answered in the quotes as on my phone.
Have answered in the quotes as on my phone.
Matt Harper said:
Having re-read this, it all sounds a bit odd.
Did your friend buy a car and receive a title document naming the previous owner - and then not do a transfer of title? He is the physical title signed by the previous owner but has not transferred it due to no US address and originally planning to export it to the UK. The plates (tags?) were taken off and surrendered.
Does the title have the previous owner, as the current owner? I believe so, his name and address are printed on it.
Has the vehicle now disappeared? At the moment it seems to have. We have now found someone more local that is going to visit and see if the business and more importantly the car is still there.
Are you still in contact with the previous owner? Yes
Unfortunately cars do get sold without title from time to time - and if it's gone out-of-state it may be extremely difficult to trace it. This is the worry.
Unless it is a rare, highly valuable and easily recognizable vehicle, it may well have just been spirited away. It is quite rare.
Was the restorer a recognized business, or just some shade-tree mechanic? He was recommended and has registered premises etc but we are not sure if he is still there. All seemed to be going well with progress updates, several independent inspections etc but now silence.
Did your friend buy a car and receive a title document naming the previous owner - and then not do a transfer of title? He is the physical title signed by the previous owner but has not transferred it due to no US address and originally planning to export it to the UK. The plates (tags?) were taken off and surrendered.
Does the title have the previous owner, as the current owner? I believe so, his name and address are printed on it.
Has the vehicle now disappeared? At the moment it seems to have. We have now found someone more local that is going to visit and see if the business and more importantly the car is still there.
Are you still in contact with the previous owner? Yes
Unfortunately cars do get sold without title from time to time - and if it's gone out-of-state it may be extremely difficult to trace it. This is the worry.
Unless it is a rare, highly valuable and easily recognizable vehicle, it may well have just been spirited away. It is quite rare.
Was the restorer a recognized business, or just some shade-tree mechanic? He was recommended and has registered premises etc but we are not sure if he is still there. All seemed to be going well with progress updates, several independent inspections etc but now silence.
@matt,
This is the case, we don’t consider the previous owner a problem as he is not making any claim to the car and will help with any paperwork etc, even helping selling the car in Florida if needed.
The main concern is the person who has the car and what they do with it. It sounds like it will be hard for them to sell the car on locally.
Hopefully should here back from the guy that’s going to make a visit and if the car is there we are going to work out the next steps to getting it recovered / repo’d.
Failing this is there any ways you know of to put the chassis on some form of watch list like Carfax?
This is the case, we don’t consider the previous owner a problem as he is not making any claim to the car and will help with any paperwork etc, even helping selling the car in Florida if needed.
The main concern is the person who has the car and what they do with it. It sounds like it will be hard for them to sell the car on locally.
Hopefully should here back from the guy that’s going to make a visit and if the car is there we are going to work out the next steps to getting it recovered / repo’d.
Failing this is there any ways you know of to put the chassis on some form of watch list like Carfax?
South tdf said:
@matt,
This is the case, we don’t consider the previous owner a problem as he is not making any claim to the car and will help with any paperwork etc, even helping selling the car in Florida if needed.
The main concern is the person who has the car and what they do with it. It sounds like it will be hard for them to sell the car on locally.
Hopefully should here back from the guy that’s going to make a visit and if the car is there we are going to work out the next steps to getting it recovered / repo’d.
Failing this is there any ways you know of to put the chassis on some form of watch list like Carfax?
For the sale to be legal, the title must me transferred to the new owner in sight of FL DMV with proof of ID from both parties. i.e. when the seller completes the title transfer portion of the document and submits it to the DMV it is accompanied by a copy of the sellers ID - invariably drivers license. New owner applies for new title - either paper or electronic, they pay relevant sales taxes and provide ID to complete the transaction.This is the case, we don’t consider the previous owner a problem as he is not making any claim to the car and will help with any paperwork etc, even helping selling the car in Florida if needed.
The main concern is the person who has the car and what they do with it. It sounds like it will be hard for them to sell the car on locally.
Hopefully should here back from the guy that’s going to make a visit and if the car is there we are going to work out the next steps to getting it recovered / repo’d.
Failing this is there any ways you know of to put the chassis on some form of watch list like Carfax?
That's for it it be a legal transfer of title. Do less than legal sales take place? Absolutely. Look on eBay, Facebook Marketplace etc., lots of vehicles on offer without title - usually older junkers/clunkers, but FL is not known for legal compliance when it comes to things automotive.
I would inquire of the DMV if a vehicle with VIN ########## has been reregistered or tagged, since the transfer took place.
Matt Harper said:
For the sale to be legal, the title must me transferred to the new owner in sight of FL DMV with proof of ID from both parties. i.e. when the seller completes the title transfer portion of the document and submits it to the DMV it is accompanied by a copy of the sellers ID - invariably drivers license. New owner applies for new title - either paper or electronic, they pay relevant sales taxes and provide ID to complete the transaction.
That's for it it be a legal transfer of title. Do less than legal sales take place? Absolutely. Look on eBay, Facebook Marketplace etc., lots of vehicles on offer without title - usually older junkers/clunkers, but FL is not known for legal compliance when it comes to things automotive.
I would inquire of the DMV if a vehicle with VIN ########## has been reregistered or tagged, since the transfer took place.
Is that really the case? When buying or selling privately I’ve never received/given a copy of my DL.That's for it it be a legal transfer of title. Do less than legal sales take place? Absolutely. Look on eBay, Facebook Marketplace etc., lots of vehicles on offer without title - usually older junkers/clunkers, but FL is not known for legal compliance when it comes to things automotive.
I would inquire of the DMV if a vehicle with VIN ########## has been reregistered or tagged, since the transfer took place.
OP - the other issue with the timeframe is that the restoration shop could have claimed title through mechanic’s lien, received title and then sold it.
Where in FL?
Matt Harper said:
Does the title have the previous owner, as the current owner? I believe so, his name and address are printed on it.
This is a worry then. I believe that in the eyes of the Florida DMV, the previous owner still owns the car, not your friend.
That's true of all DMV's.This is a worry then. I believe that in the eyes of the Florida DMV, the previous owner still owns the car, not your friend.
Whoever's name is on the title, is the legal owner of the car.
Florida DMV customer service (850) 617-2000
But if they are anything like the other DMV's I've dealt with, they will make the DVLA look helpful and efficient
https://www.flhsmv.gov/contact-us/?utm_source=inte...
But if they are anything like the other DMV's I've dealt with, they will make the DVLA look helpful and efficient
https://www.flhsmv.gov/contact-us/?utm_source=inte...
The Moose said:
Is that really the case? When buying or selling privately I’ve never received/given a copy of my DL.
OP - the other issue with the timeframe is that the restoration shop could have claimed title through mechanic’s lien, received title and then sold it.
Where in FL?
In Florida, to obtain a certificate of title you must, at minimum, have the following:OP - the other issue with the timeframe is that the restoration shop could have claimed title through mechanic’s lien, received title and then sold it.
Where in FL?
Proof of identity.
Proof of ownership.
Proof of required insurance coverage. ...
Complete an Application for Certificate of Title With/Without Registration (HSMV form 82040).
Pay applicable sales tax and title and registration fees.
flhsmv.gov
Matt Harper said:
The Moose said:
Is that really the case? When buying or selling privately I’ve never received/given a copy of my DL.
OP - the other issue with the timeframe is that the restoration shop could have claimed title through mechanic’s lien, received title and then sold it.
Where in FL?
In Florida, to obtain a certificate of title you must, at minimum, have the following:OP - the other issue with the timeframe is that the restoration shop could have claimed title through mechanic’s lien, received title and then sold it.
Where in FL?
Proof of identity.
Proof of ownership.
Proof of required insurance coverage. ...
Complete an Application for Certificate of Title With/Without Registration (HSMV form 82040).
Pay applicable sales tax and title and registration fees.
flhsmv.gov
The Moose said:
Interesting. I've always had to provide me DL when changing title into my name, but not the other party's. I think that list is what you have to provide as proof of your (i.e. transferee's) id and it seems that's all that's required in my county. That being said, I will endeavor to start taking a copy of a seller's id just in case. Thank you for the pointer
Of course you know the old saying - "If you've been in one DMV, you've been in one DMV".Thanks for input so far.
We have had someone check the business and it is still trading but the person who checked has not confirmed the car is there but she is going back next week.
Once we know the car is there we have a repo agent who is happy to take the job on (I keep thinking of that Lizard Towing program).
We have had someone check the business and it is still trading but the person who checked has not confirmed the car is there but she is going back next week.
Once we know the car is there we have a repo agent who is happy to take the job on (I keep thinking of that Lizard Towing program).
South tdf said:
Thanks for input so far.
We have had someone check the business and it is still trading but the person who checked has not confirmed the car is there but she is going back next week.
Once we know the car is there we have a repo agent who is happy to take the job on (I keep thinking of that Lizard Towing program).
Any update.We have had someone check the business and it is still trading but the person who checked has not confirmed the car is there but she is going back next week.
Once we know the car is there we have a repo agent who is happy to take the job on (I keep thinking of that Lizard Towing program).
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