Moving to the US from the UK - IT Worker with no degree
Discussion
Hi All,
I'm looking to relocate to the USA with my family, ideally to one of the hotter states, and was wondering what success people here may have had when they don't currently have a degree.
I don't work for a company that I can transfer to the USA with, so I'd need to start with fresh applications to companies as an 'unknown' and I don't currently have a degree (10 years experience in what I do, IT Service Management) but I am currently studying for a Degree with the Open University.
I've seen jobs that I think I would be good at, but as I have no right to work there, I'm aware it can be complicated. My wife doesn't, and wouldn't work - the jobs I'm looking for we could support ourselves and our newborn comfortably - and we have a decent amount of savings to take with us to act as a buffer.
I'd be really keen to hear from anyone who has made the jump, and what challenges and successes they had first hand, opposed to just reading through more blogs and the like on Google.
I'm looking to relocate to the USA with my family, ideally to one of the hotter states, and was wondering what success people here may have had when they don't currently have a degree.
I don't work for a company that I can transfer to the USA with, so I'd need to start with fresh applications to companies as an 'unknown' and I don't currently have a degree (10 years experience in what I do, IT Service Management) but I am currently studying for a Degree with the Open University.
I've seen jobs that I think I would be good at, but as I have no right to work there, I'm aware it can be complicated. My wife doesn't, and wouldn't work - the jobs I'm looking for we could support ourselves and our newborn comfortably - and we have a decent amount of savings to take with us to act as a buffer.
I'd be really keen to hear from anyone who has made the jump, and what challenges and successes they had first hand, opposed to just reading through more blogs and the like on Google.
You will need FULL sponsorship from a US company, willing to petition for your visa. As an unknown, you will need something very very special for a US company to do that.
In reality, you are an uneducated specialist.. There are many of those already here.
I have been here 3 years on an Intracompany L1 visa. My company is applying for my Green Card, as a specialist engineer who does have degree qualifications, they have already spent upwards of $30,000 on my transfer, attorney costs, visa applications and fees..
Put yourself in the hiring managers position..
You have no visa = vast expense and 6 months of applications and work on his side
You have no qualifications (degree) = A minimum requirement and standard in USA preferably masters degree
You also have baggage = wife and child, will they settle OK, homesick etc
If you have a unique expertise in a specific IT field, you may have a chance. The hiring company also has to prove that an American citizen cannot fulfill the position.
I don't want to piss on your dream, but entry to the USA as a LEGAL immigrant is very tough, even if you have all the specialist credentials. Without them, I would say your chances are very small.
There have been several threads on here about Visa's and US working. For many it is still a dream. Good luck......
In reality, you are an uneducated specialist.. There are many of those already here.
I have been here 3 years on an Intracompany L1 visa. My company is applying for my Green Card, as a specialist engineer who does have degree qualifications, they have already spent upwards of $30,000 on my transfer, attorney costs, visa applications and fees..
Put yourself in the hiring managers position..
You have no visa = vast expense and 6 months of applications and work on his side
You have no qualifications (degree) = A minimum requirement and standard in USA preferably masters degree
You also have baggage = wife and child, will they settle OK, homesick etc
If you have a unique expertise in a specific IT field, you may have a chance. The hiring company also has to prove that an American citizen cannot fulfill the position.
I don't want to piss on your dream, but entry to the USA as a LEGAL immigrant is very tough, even if you have all the specialist credentials. Without them, I would say your chances are very small.
There have been several threads on here about Visa's and US working. For many it is still a dream. Good luck......
I'm aware of the difficulties in the journey ahead, no worries on that score!
I think with my degree outstanding, the fact that I'm 1 exam away from the top qualification in my field probably means I still need to bolster the education credentials.
I guess my issue is I could do with finding a company that are US headquartered and work for them in the UK On top of the above.
I think with my degree outstanding, the fact that I'm 1 exam away from the top qualification in my field probably means I still need to bolster the education credentials.
I guess my issue is I could do with finding a company that are US headquartered and work for them in the UK On top of the above.
I work in IT service management, and specifically around business relationship management (getting the business what they need from IT) which in my experience is usually with the other core IT functions in head office, rather than offsite. That said, some companies do have a few roles on overseas centres, but it's unlikely that they would be in my area of expertise.
All that said, I have no idea what company you work for and what office you are opening in the US, so for all I know you could have the role I do based there.
All that said, I have no idea what company you work for and what office you are opening in the US, so for all I know you could have the role I do based there.
Just to throw my my two'penneth into the hat.
H1-B requires a minimum bachelors degree - or equivalent - which is usually viewed by USCIS as 12 years of work experience, demonstrating expertise progression in a relevant field to the position being offered.
The position being offered must be of a skill level requiring a bachelors degree, or equivalent.
The petitioner does NOT have to demonstrate that it is impossible to fill the position with a local hire - only to demonstrate that it is burdensome or impractical. Nor are they required to advertise the position locally (at this stage).
An L1-A/B visa requires the beneficiary to have worked for the petitioning company outside of the US for a minimum 12 months, continuous, within the previous 36 months.
An E1 requires the US entity to conduct substantial business with the non US entity, provided that organization is headquartered in a recognized treaty trader nation (which the UK is).
I have been a beneficiary of L1-A, E1 and H1-B visas (I do not have a degree) and have petitioned L1-A, L1-B and H1-B visas for UK workers as an employer.
As others have stated, yours is a tough situation. There is no shortage of IT expertise in the US and the investment required to petition you may not make commercial sense to an employer.
My advice - start networking.
H1-B requires a minimum bachelors degree - or equivalent - which is usually viewed by USCIS as 12 years of work experience, demonstrating expertise progression in a relevant field to the position being offered.
The position being offered must be of a skill level requiring a bachelors degree, or equivalent.
The petitioner does NOT have to demonstrate that it is impossible to fill the position with a local hire - only to demonstrate that it is burdensome or impractical. Nor are they required to advertise the position locally (at this stage).
An L1-A/B visa requires the beneficiary to have worked for the petitioning company outside of the US for a minimum 12 months, continuous, within the previous 36 months.
An E1 requires the US entity to conduct substantial business with the non US entity, provided that organization is headquartered in a recognized treaty trader nation (which the UK is).
I have been a beneficiary of L1-A, E1 and H1-B visas (I do not have a degree) and have petitioned L1-A, L1-B and H1-B visas for UK workers as an employer.
As others have stated, yours is a tough situation. There is no shortage of IT expertise in the US and the investment required to petition you may not make commercial sense to an employer.
My advice - start networking.
conanius said:
All that said, I have no idea what company you work for and what office you are opening in the US, so for all I know you could have the role I do based there.
We are a software company but we have no shortage of existing employees willing and able to transfer to the US, which is one of the problems looking for a role that may lead there. Given that you need at least 12 months service on an L visa it takes a lot of froward thinking to recruit someone with the aim of them being transferred there.I'd second what Matt says. He's very knowledgeable on the topic of visas.
I think it's best to have a goal and a path to get there. Strategically, whether the degree is any practical use or not, in the US people make a far bigger deal about having one than in the UK. So it makes sense to complete the degree then look for jobs.
The other thing to consider with the US is the overall standard of living that you get moving to a particular place. That is to say that the market rate for your job may be different to that in the UK, furthermore, some areas of the US pay very well but have very high taxes and a high cost of living, others pay less but have an overall better living standard, you then factor in weather and proximity to major cities and you can be caught in analysis paralysis, not forgetting that as somebody needing an H1-B or an L1 you are a beggar and not a chooser.
I think it's best to have a goal and a path to get there. Strategically, whether the degree is any practical use or not, in the US people make a far bigger deal about having one than in the UK. So it makes sense to complete the degree then look for jobs.
The other thing to consider with the US is the overall standard of living that you get moving to a particular place. That is to say that the market rate for your job may be different to that in the UK, furthermore, some areas of the US pay very well but have very high taxes and a high cost of living, others pay less but have an overall better living standard, you then factor in weather and proximity to major cities and you can be caught in analysis paralysis, not forgetting that as somebody needing an H1-B or an L1 you are a beggar and not a chooser.
conanius said:
Hi All, thanks for the replies.
Is the best way out there then via a move with your employer then? I don't think my wife would be keen on me divorcing her to marry an American !
Not the best, but maybe the easiest (perhaps that should be 'least difficult'.Is the best way out there then via a move with your employer then? I don't think my wife would be keen on me divorcing her to marry an American !
Simplistically, there are 5 common routes - family (includes marriage to a USC), employment, investment, green card lottery (UKC's do not qualify for this) and persecution (refugee, asylum etc).
By far the least tortuous is marriage to a USC or sponsorship by a close family member.
Practically, the easiest is an EB-5 investment, where you effectively buy a green card by sinking a minimum $500,000 in a US 'collateral investment'. Although it's called an investment, few ever get their money back - though that is usually not the primary aim. The other common investment vehicle is an E-2 treaty investor visa - a pretty shaky way in, whereby you either establish or buy a business that is capable of employing USC's - but this doesn't provide a sequential route to permanence and most E-2's end in tears unfortunately.
For you - unless you are not giving the full picture, employment-based immigration would only be an option if you were either employed by an organization that was prepared to arrange an intra-company transfer (and persuade USCIS that you were suitably qualified - and that there was a need for your expertise) - an L1 petition - or you were able to persuade a US based organization that you could bring something to them that was worth the $15,000-30,000 they'd need to invest in petitioning and relocating you on an H1-B (assuming you are suitably qualified, of course).
As others already stated, the US is probably the most difficult westernized nation to emigrate to - but those who are determined enough often find a way.
Have you considered Canada or Australia?
By the way, I'm flattered by the complements of some of my fellow expats on here - though I'm not the all-knowing sage, I assure you - just a fair bit of experience of this minefield.
Thanks for all the comments everyone. It may look hollow, but I genuinely do appreciate the honest nature of your feedback. This is very much a dream, and it does need to be mixed with reality.
We've dreamed of emigrating for years, and it came very close in 2010, but to France (A major plane building company based in Toulouse) but sadly that didn't pan out (we both got flown down there, had a few days to do sight seeing, went in for the "interview" which was basically 'we want you, but in Hamburg' and I turned it down...) I was willing to learn the language, and my wife already spoke decent French. We didn't want Hamburg because of the climate, which was a major driver for Toulouse.
I think it might be worth explaining why we have 'chosen' the US, and based on that, I'd be interested in others views.
1 - My wives health. She isn't in the best of states, and suffers from ME. We have found that warmer climates have a distinct improvement on her health, and whilst that might be the placebo pill of being on holiday, it genuinely does seem to work.
2 - The US seems to be an 'easy' transition for a brit. There's no language to learn, and I'd risk saying cultures are comparable - it isn't as different as if we moved to Saudi as an example.
3 - Ease of access. You can regularly get decent flight prices too and from the states. Whilst we don't want family over every weekend, and we are realistic to how little we will probably see of them post move, we would like to try and pay to get them over now and again.
Australia and New Zealand look absolutely incredible as places to live, but the 20+ hour flight time and colossal cost puts us off a bit. If it is so much easier to get over there, maybe we need to reconsider this, and balance the issues of distance with the reality of how irregular visits are likely to be.
That obviously isn't everything, but its a few points to cover. I think from what you are saying the US probably is going to be almost impossible, and we need to 'fluke' our way over.
I've applied for a couple of jobs on the off chance in the US - both in California - and had written replies to both. Both said I was well qualified, and would have gotten to interview if I had the right to work in the US already, but they didn't feel they would be able to support me through a Visa process at that time due to other applicants.
I appreciate the detail regarding Visa's and the process, and I think we need to try and make it as 'secure' as possible - relocating with a wife and child and getting an immediate 'get to the airport and get out of here' alert doesn't feel particularly 'secure' to me, so I think this needs further research from myself.
Again, thanks for your time and honesty guys.
We've dreamed of emigrating for years, and it came very close in 2010, but to France (A major plane building company based in Toulouse) but sadly that didn't pan out (we both got flown down there, had a few days to do sight seeing, went in for the "interview" which was basically 'we want you, but in Hamburg' and I turned it down...) I was willing to learn the language, and my wife already spoke decent French. We didn't want Hamburg because of the climate, which was a major driver for Toulouse.
I think it might be worth explaining why we have 'chosen' the US, and based on that, I'd be interested in others views.
1 - My wives health. She isn't in the best of states, and suffers from ME. We have found that warmer climates have a distinct improvement on her health, and whilst that might be the placebo pill of being on holiday, it genuinely does seem to work.
2 - The US seems to be an 'easy' transition for a brit. There's no language to learn, and I'd risk saying cultures are comparable - it isn't as different as if we moved to Saudi as an example.
3 - Ease of access. You can regularly get decent flight prices too and from the states. Whilst we don't want family over every weekend, and we are realistic to how little we will probably see of them post move, we would like to try and pay to get them over now and again.
Australia and New Zealand look absolutely incredible as places to live, but the 20+ hour flight time and colossal cost puts us off a bit. If it is so much easier to get over there, maybe we need to reconsider this, and balance the issues of distance with the reality of how irregular visits are likely to be.
That obviously isn't everything, but its a few points to cover. I think from what you are saying the US probably is going to be almost impossible, and we need to 'fluke' our way over.
I've applied for a couple of jobs on the off chance in the US - both in California - and had written replies to both. Both said I was well qualified, and would have gotten to interview if I had the right to work in the US already, but they didn't feel they would be able to support me through a Visa process at that time due to other applicants.
I appreciate the detail regarding Visa's and the process, and I think we need to try and make it as 'secure' as possible - relocating with a wife and child and getting an immediate 'get to the airport and get out of here' alert doesn't feel particularly 'secure' to me, so I think this needs further research from myself.
Again, thanks for your time and honesty guys.
Certainly Australia is easier to get to although that is starting to change, they are tightening the rules on how you can do it and there is increasing hostility to people going in on 457s (the employer sponsored route) but it's still way easier than the US. It isn't as expensive as it was, the exchange rate is now 1.83 when it was down to 1.45 not so long ago.
Whether you'd like it is up to you, having been there a lot I'd say it's a nice place but not the heaven some people make out. Very isolated is one issue and very centred around the cities is another.
Whether you'd like it is up to you, having been there a lot I'd say it's a nice place but not the heaven some people make out. Very isolated is one issue and very centred around the cities is another.
conanius said:
Thanks for all the comments everyone. It may look hollow, but I genuinely do appreciate the honest nature of your feedback. This is very much a dream, and it does need to be mixed with reality.
We've dreamed of emigrating for years, and it came very close in 2010, but to France (A major plane building company based in Toulouse) but sadly that didn't pan out (we both got flown down there, had a few days to do sight seeing, went in for the "interview" which was basically 'we want you, but in Hamburg' and I turned it down...) I was willing to learn the language, and my wife already spoke decent French. We didn't want Hamburg because of the climate, which was a major driver for Toulouse.
I think it might be worth explaining why we have 'chosen' the US, and based on that, I'd be interested in others views.
1 - My wives health. She isn't in the best of states, and suffers from ME. We have found that warmer climates have a distinct improvement on her health, and whilst that might be the placebo pill of being on holiday, it genuinely does seem to work.
2 - The US seems to be an 'easy' transition for a brit. There's no language to learn, and I'd risk saying cultures are comparable - it isn't as different as if we moved to Saudi as an example.
3 - Ease of access. You can regularly get decent flight prices too and from the states. Whilst we don't want family over every weekend, and we are realistic to how little we will probably see of them post move, we would like to try and pay to get them over now and again.
Australia and New Zealand look absolutely incredible as places to live, but the 20+ hour flight time and colossal cost puts us off a bit. If it is so much easier to get over there, maybe we need to reconsider this, and balance the issues of distance with the reality of how irregular visits are likely to be.
That obviously isn't everything, but its a few points to cover. I think from what you are saying the US probably is going to be almost impossible, and we need to 'fluke' our way over.
I've applied for a couple of jobs on the off chance in the US - both in California - and had written replies to both. Both said I was well qualified, and would have gotten to interview if I had the right to work in the US already, but they didn't feel they would be able to support me through a Visa process at that time due to other applicants.
I appreciate the detail regarding Visa's and the process, and I think we need to try and make it as 'secure' as possible - relocating with a wife and child and getting an immediate 'get to the airport and get out of here' alert doesn't feel particularly 'secure' to me, so I think this needs further research from myself.
Again, thanks for your time and honesty guys.
I would say if you did make it to the states you would struggle to get medical insurance for your wife due to the existing ME, if you did the premium would be massive.We've dreamed of emigrating for years, and it came very close in 2010, but to France (A major plane building company based in Toulouse) but sadly that didn't pan out (we both got flown down there, had a few days to do sight seeing, went in for the "interview" which was basically 'we want you, but in Hamburg' and I turned it down...) I was willing to learn the language, and my wife already spoke decent French. We didn't want Hamburg because of the climate, which was a major driver for Toulouse.
I think it might be worth explaining why we have 'chosen' the US, and based on that, I'd be interested in others views.
1 - My wives health. She isn't in the best of states, and suffers from ME. We have found that warmer climates have a distinct improvement on her health, and whilst that might be the placebo pill of being on holiday, it genuinely does seem to work.
2 - The US seems to be an 'easy' transition for a brit. There's no language to learn, and I'd risk saying cultures are comparable - it isn't as different as if we moved to Saudi as an example.
3 - Ease of access. You can regularly get decent flight prices too and from the states. Whilst we don't want family over every weekend, and we are realistic to how little we will probably see of them post move, we would like to try and pay to get them over now and again.
Australia and New Zealand look absolutely incredible as places to live, but the 20+ hour flight time and colossal cost puts us off a bit. If it is so much easier to get over there, maybe we need to reconsider this, and balance the issues of distance with the reality of how irregular visits are likely to be.
That obviously isn't everything, but its a few points to cover. I think from what you are saying the US probably is going to be almost impossible, and we need to 'fluke' our way over.
I've applied for a couple of jobs on the off chance in the US - both in California - and had written replies to both. Both said I was well qualified, and would have gotten to interview if I had the right to work in the US already, but they didn't feel they would be able to support me through a Visa process at that time due to other applicants.
I appreciate the detail regarding Visa's and the process, and I think we need to try and make it as 'secure' as possible - relocating with a wife and child and getting an immediate 'get to the airport and get out of here' alert doesn't feel particularly 'secure' to me, so I think this needs further research from myself.
Again, thanks for your time and honesty guys.
conanius said:
I appreciate the detail regarding Visas and the process, and I think we need to try and make it as 'secure' as possible - relocating with a wife and child and getting an immediate 'get to the airport and get out of here' alert doesn't feel particularly 'secure' to me, so I think this needs further research from myself.
Your assessment is correct. It is insecure.If you find an employer to sponsor you for an H1-B and sponsor you for Permanent Residency (and they don't go hand in hand, that is all very well but you are stuck there for about 7 years. If you find the job is lackluster then you need to temper your desire to move with the desire to get a Green Card.
If the employer has a downturn, and you are an 'at will' employee (please research this) which is not unusual, they can close down huge areas of their business very quickly (note, it isn't redundancy) to save the business. But then that leaves you without a job, and you then need to find somebody to employ you and transfer your H1-B, which may be easier said than done. If you can't get it done in 30 days, then you have to leave the country.
Moving to France, Spain, Gibraltar, Italy or Portugal would be far easier and less risky.
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