Army and Navy Roundabout RTA

[Boydie88]

Hi Essex neighbors. Sadly I was involved in an RTA at the Army and Navy Roundabout yesterday on my way to V Festival where someone jumped a red light and drove into me (rear clam damage only it seems). His claim was he has never seen those lights red before.

Unfortunately no witnesses stopped at the scene and I'm struggling to get a written response from the council to confirm the lights were in operation as they are only part time lights and perhaps the timings were changed for V festival weekend.

I guess they were in operation due to the extra traffic around because of V Festival (which is why I was in the area).

So this is just an inquiry to see if anyone will go on record to confirm the lights here... http://goo.gl/maps/DmTfB ...were in operation at 11.00 am yesterday.

[Squiggs]

I'm not sure what the timings are for the lights but surely the other person can't claim 'I've never seen them red before'.?

What next .... knock someone over on a rarely used zebra crossing because he's never seen anybody cross there before??????

If the lights were in operation, no matter whether they are or are not usually in use on that day at that time, they are part-time traffic lights (I'm sure all the approach signage indicates that) and as such should be observed for operation at all times - and red means stop.

[Boydie88]

Squiggs said:

I'm not sure what the timings are for the lights but surely the other person can't claim 'I've never seen them red before'.?

What next .... knock someone over on a rarely used zebra crossing because he's never seen anybody cross there before??????

If the lights were in operation, no matter whether they are or are not usually in use on that day at that time, they are part-time traffic lights (I'm sure all the approach signage indicates that) and as such should be observed for operation at all times - and red means stop.

I'm just worried he will change his story and say I ran the red or it was in fact me that pulled out in front of him on the roundabout

[Squiggs]

Boydie88 said:

I'm just worried he will change his story and say I ran the red or it was in fact me that pulled out in front of him on the roundabout

The way I see it the only reason for you to need to need proof that the lights were working is if he sticks to his original statement that 'they don't work on Sundays and/or at this time' and that he denies that they working.

But ....

.... if he did jump a red light and changes his story to you running a red light then getting proof that the lights were working won't help you (cos he's already accepting that they were working)

.... if you jumped a red light then getting proof that the lights were working won't help you.

.... if you discover the lights weren't working then it sounds like you were a fault.

Shame you didn't get a witness.
Good luck.

[Boydie88]

Squiggs said:

Boydie88 said:

I'm just worried he will change his story and say I ran the red or it was in fact me that pulled out in front of him on the roundabout

The way I see it the only reason for you to need to need proof that the lights were working is if he sticks to his original statement that 'they don't work on Sundays and/or at this time' and that he denies that they working.

But ....

.... if he did jump a red light and changes his story to you running a red light then getting proof that the lights were working won't help you (cos he's already accepting that they were working)

.... if you jumped a red light then getting proof that the lights were working won't help you.

.... if you discover the lights weren't working then it sounds like you were a fault.

Shame you didn't get a witness.
Good luck.

Yeah the top one is the reason for it really. The guy was very apologetic at the scene but I can't help but think he might try and change his story when the financial impacts hit him.

Don't know what else to do. If my insurance end up making any payment and as a result I lose my NCB, my VX won't be realistically insurable for me come renewal next month The extra £100 having a non fault claim adds on is already a big hit.

[Squiggs]

It would be up to the insurance companies to prove if they were working or not.

As far as I know Essex County Council do have control over some of the lights throughout the county, and more particularly in the County City of Chelmsford at peak traffic flow times.
Because I don't 'do' the A&N very often (especially on Sundays) I can't say if the lights on there usually work on Sundays - but as you say the V Fest was on ... so common sense would get me to thinking the council would be watching the traffic and controlling some traffic lights (whether the council used this sort of common sense is a different matter).

But if they were controlling lights there was probably only one person doing it (councils are tight - no need to over-man!) and then would that one person be required to keep a log of when/if he activated any lights?
And even he did, 'cos he's a council employee, and he worked a Sunday he's probably off on a months leave now and when he returns his logs will have been made obsolete or lost

To put your mind at rest I hope someone else who's local can tell you if the lights usually do/don't work on a Sunday and if they usually don't if they happened to be working this Sunday just 'cos the fest was on ..... although most locals tend to stay at home V weekend to avoid the traffic

Once again good luck

Edited by Squiggs on Monday 20th August 16:57

[Rob348]

I do know that they were working yesterday at unusual times, I went there at 16.15, and the lights under the flyover,stopping traffic coming from miami to springfield basin ie London to colchester direction,were working,which is quite odd really as they are normally not on.
However having said that,if you get any joy from Chelmsford City Council I'd be very surprised,they are a totally Naff council,as I have learnt from a very expensive PCN,they dont budge an inch,and I have no time for them,Good luck my friend

[Harrytsg]

Is there CCTV on the roundabout?

[Squiggs]

Harrytsg said:

Is there CCTV on the roundabout?

Good call.
Defo some CCTV for the flyover crossing the A&N, not sure if there's any covering the roundabout itself or how far the flyover cover.

[Boydie88]

There appears to be CCTV that watches the flyover, but I think that may have been closed in both directions as I never saw any traffic on it.

I have actually had a response from the council saying the email has been forwarded onto the mid area highways team for their attention.

I'm trying to get through to Chelmsford Police station now to see what was reported/if any witnesses have come forward regarding the accident but it said there was no one to take my call and they'd get back in contact ASAP... this was half an hour ago, beginning to feel like I left the wrong number on the answer phone.

[4key]

Have a look at essex travel twitter feed, they may have tweeted when the lights were on and off

[Boydie88]

4key said:

Have a look at essex travel twitter feed, they may have tweeted when the lights were on and off

Love the idea, it gets a fair few mentions but none of them say the lights are on.

[TCEvo]

I think that traffic lights etc in Chelmsford are contracted out to Atkins - they have an office at Threadneedle House (opposite the library).

As a member of the public whether you can contact them remains to be seen of course...

Best of luck.

[AdamD]

As the lights are part time it's quite likely they are connected to Essex CC's Traffic Control room & UTMC system.

If it's anything like the system we use in London it will have a log of system events and alarms/faults. Turning the lights on or off would have generated an entry and associated information as to who or what invoked the command. It would not be unfeasible for the lights to be regulated on/off when certain traffic conditions (ie a queue back to a strategic point as measured with by vehicle detector) or flow levels are met.