Discussion
Stuff are running a poll on the home page "Should police shoulder some blame for the record pursuit death toll?"
I can't believe this is even a debate as it seems to me the more we talk about pursuit being a bad thing, the more scrotes will flee because they think there's a better chance of not being followed! So the increase in deaths is maybe a reflection of more pursuits....?
I can't believe this is even a debate as it seems to me the more we talk about pursuit being a bad thing, the more scrotes will flee because they think there's a better chance of not being followed! So the increase in deaths is maybe a reflection of more pursuits....?
Esprit said:
It's ludicrous isn't it? The fact that they publicise that Police pull out of chases when things get dangerous means you're going to get a large proportion of people running from the cops when signalled to pull over.
They need to make the penalty for "failing to stop" tougher.Like a mandatory 28 days in jail.
But it is a problem when some little tosser gets chased, he's running because he has no WOF or something trivial and then 2 innocents get killed when he hits them.
Seems a waste & pretty sad.
Isn't it some ridiculous proportion of 'chases' end in a crash within the first minute? Ie before the plod are even really chasing. Events along the lines of:
1) Cop sees crap driving, pulls car over
2) Drunk idiot says "oh bother I already lost my licence this month, lets do a runner"
3) Drunk idiot's drunk idiot mates say "fo shizzle bo"
4) Drunk idiot applies foot to floor
5) Drunk idiot fails to take first corner and meets power pole
Which I guess is a change from a few years back, when there was a flurry of police cars crashing 'shortly after ceasing pursuit'.
To be honest (at risk of flaming) I'd be pretty confident (as I expect others on here with capable cars would) of getting away from a police car if I was so inclined and had little enough regard for others. Which is why it amazes me how many of these 'chase incidents' involve cars like WRXs which are very easy to drive fast and should be able to lose a V6 Commodore in pretty short order. Or are there more cases they don't publicise where that does happen?
1) Cop sees crap driving, pulls car over
2) Drunk idiot says "oh bother I already lost my licence this month, lets do a runner"
3) Drunk idiot's drunk idiot mates say "fo shizzle bo"
4) Drunk idiot applies foot to floor
5) Drunk idiot fails to take first corner and meets power pole
Which I guess is a change from a few years back, when there was a flurry of police cars crashing 'shortly after ceasing pursuit'.
To be honest (at risk of flaming) I'd be pretty confident (as I expect others on here with capable cars would) of getting away from a police car if I was so inclined and had little enough regard for others. Which is why it amazes me how many of these 'chase incidents' involve cars like WRXs which are very easy to drive fast and should be able to lose a V6 Commodore in pretty short order. Or are there more cases they don't publicise where that does happen?
Edited by GravelBen on Tuesday 7th December 05:26
J T said:
There is a quote from Leighton Smith that always sticks in my head:
"The man did not die because the Police decided to chase him; he died because he was a bloody idiot who decided to run away"
And a bloody good job too, saves the cost of a trial."The man did not die because the Police decided to chase him; he died because he was a bloody idiot who decided to run away"
It's the nice people & kids they keep hitting that's the problem.
willyheatley said:
J T said:
There is a quote from Leighton Smith that always sticks in my head:
"The man did not die because the Police decided to chase him; he died because he was a bloody idiot who decided to run away"
And a bloody good job too, saves the cost of a trial."The man did not die because the Police decided to chase him; he died because he was a bloody idiot who decided to run away"
It's the nice people & kids they keep hitting that's the problem.
The other option that gets talked about is pulling out of a chase as soon as they've got a rego on the basis they'll catch the idiot later, but then you've got to prove who was driving, assuming it's not stolen....
GravelBen said:
Isn't it some ridiculous proportion of 'chases' end in a crash within the first minute? Ie before the plod are even really chasing. Events along the lines of:
1) Cop sees crap driving, pulls car over
2) Drunk idiot says "oh bother I already lost my licence this month, lets do a runner"
3) Drunk idiot's drunk idiot mates say "fo shizzle bo"
4) Drunk idiot applies foot to floor
5) Drunk idiot fails to take first corner and meets power pole
Which I guess is a change from a few years back, when there was a flurry of police cars crashing 'shortly after ceasing pursuit'.
Indeed. There are many 'proper' Police chases, whereby the criminal is pursued over a not inconsiderable distance, and normally stopped by road spikes/blocks. These pursuits seem to often have a sucessfull outcome. One must hypothesise that this is because the drivers are not drunk/stoned out of their minds, and have retained some level of driving ability. 1) Cop sees crap driving, pulls car over
2) Drunk idiot says "oh bother I already lost my licence this month, lets do a runner"
3) Drunk idiot's drunk idiot mates say "fo shizzle bo"
4) Drunk idiot applies foot to floor
5) Drunk idiot fails to take first corner and meets power pole
Which I guess is a change from a few years back, when there was a flurry of police cars crashing 'shortly after ceasing pursuit'.
However, many of these seem to arise from complete non pursuits. The officer puts his lights on, and the criminal nails it straight into a tree/car/pole/building. There is often not even time for the officer to assess the pursuit, or to even have enough time to make a decision to pull out.
It is ridiculous to blame the police in these instances. It is even stretching it to call them pursuits in come cases. I have no idea how this problem can be solved. The criminals involved are so stupid that education is obviously not a solution. Likewise, the police ignoring suspicious cars is a non solution. Perhaps a new approach such as using two cars to block the driver before they can suspect anything may work? Again, not really practical however.
Well I'm not really an advocate of not chasing. If I was driving the cop car I'd tip the fu*^ers into a tree first corner we came to.
The issues that make me come across all soft and gooey are;
The cops get stuff all driver training. In a lot of cases they are probably driving as badly as the losers they are chasing.
The chasee may have done stuff all wrong, is it worth killing a bystander to try and catch him? When you get a rego, call a police helicopter & catch him later.
If they do catch him (or her) what happens in court? Probably a small fine added to all the other fines said loser isn't paying.
So if the court won't treat them seriously is it worth risking lives out there in public?
Like I said earlier, mandatory 28 day jail for anyone that fails to stop.
Then if you get fines & don't pay them, back to jail for a bit.
The present farce where serial offenders are still out there committing the same offences all the time is ludicrous.
A bit of jail time could also cut down on traffic a bit, certainly in Auckland where there are an estimated 20,000 unlicensed drivers.
Driving to work some days I'm sure that estimate is a bit conservative.
The issues that make me come across all soft and gooey are;
The cops get stuff all driver training. In a lot of cases they are probably driving as badly as the losers they are chasing.
The chasee may have done stuff all wrong, is it worth killing a bystander to try and catch him? When you get a rego, call a police helicopter & catch him later.
If they do catch him (or her) what happens in court? Probably a small fine added to all the other fines said loser isn't paying.
So if the court won't treat them seriously is it worth risking lives out there in public?
Like I said earlier, mandatory 28 day jail for anyone that fails to stop.
Then if you get fines & don't pay them, back to jail for a bit.
The present farce where serial offenders are still out there committing the same offences all the time is ludicrous.
A bit of jail time could also cut down on traffic a bit, certainly in Auckland where there are an estimated 20,000 unlicensed drivers.
Driving to work some days I'm sure that estimate is a bit conservative.
ds tyres out.GravelBen said:
To be honest (at risk of flaming) I'd be pretty confident (as I expect others on here with capable cars would) of getting away from a police car if I was so inclined and had little enough regard for others. Which is why it amazes me how many of these 'chase incidents' involve cars like WRXs which are very easy to drive fast and should be able to lose a V6 Commodore in pretty short order. Or are there more cases they don't publicise where that does happen?[/small]
I think you'd be surprised. I spent 40 hours in a police car and I doubt very much that you or I would be able to evade capture. There is significant advantages to the police perspective. 1. They don't have to overtake. Just chase. Which is considerably easier than leading, especially through traffic, or on an open road where cornering can be predicted by the car in front.
2. There is an effective co-ordinated effort. All police love a good chase, if they are anywhere remotely near they will alter course to diverge on the offender.
3. The cars the police have aren't slouches. I wouldn't put one against a worked WRX on a drag, but they are more than capible of keeping up a chase.
The only way I'd be confident of getting away from them is if I had my offroader.
I have often thought of this one...the police are not under the same pressure as the offender, they just have to "sit" behind, this distance may vary, but of no concern, time is on their side.
The offender meanwhile is under "pressure? - he "must" get away, and it does not take much of a mistake at speed to majorily stuff up.
A standard V6 commodore is plenty quick enough for a chase. Whilst the V8 is quicker, it still can only corner at a "certain" speed.
The offender meanwhile is under "pressure? - he "must" get away, and it does not take much of a mistake at speed to majorily stuff up.
A standard V6 commodore is plenty quick enough for a chase. Whilst the V8 is quicker, it still can only corner at a "certain" speed.
Fair points made above - I was thinking along more simplistic lines of a cop (without handy backup) trying to catch me on twisty back roads, where I also have the option to turn off onto gravel (ie what would happen in my local area). Could you get far enough ahead to get through an intersection or two without them knowing which way you've gone?
and if they've seen your number plate, can you get away with enough time and space to construct an elaborate plot to burn the car, get home, report it stolen and invent a rock-solid alibi before they find you...
Edited by GravelBen on Tuesday 14th December 05:09
Or you could just accelerate to 88mph, engage the flux capacitor.....
Actually I hate leading an endurance race. It's considerably easier to watch other peoples lines, tidy them when they get it wrong and follow at a relaxed pace. Wear them down by flashing them a corner every so often. The "go faster" stress does three things... wears them out quickly, make them slower and easier to overtake. It's also fun to know you've not only overtaken them, you've utterly destroyed them!
Actually I hate leading an endurance race. It's considerably easier to watch other peoples lines, tidy them when they get it wrong and follow at a relaxed pace. Wear them down by flashing them a corner every so often. The "go faster" stress does three things... wears them out quickly, make them slower and easier to overtake. It's also fun to know you've not only overtaken them, you've utterly destroyed them!
Edited by Redmist336 on Tuesday 14th December 09:14
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