Discussion
Following the diesel v petrol thread, its going to be petrol, so nothing hugely controversial!
So, I know nothing about these types of cars - previous ownership has been a few Elises, an Exige, 996 GT3 (until wife got pregnant earlier than anticipated!), 1998 Audi S8, and now a diesel people carrier. Would be good to have something that is nice to drive, but don't want anything that is going to be massively expensive to run. Obviously none of the cars below are going to be amazing on fuel economy, and there is a bit of a variation in price (which reflects the range of my budget), but I'm looking for an indication of servicing and other running costs for the types of cars below. With 2 kids and regular transport of bikes, want something vaguely practical, so either towbar or room in the boot. Any other tips on ownership, or what to look out for when buying are welcome, as are any other car suggestions.
Subaru Legacy
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Cars/Suba...
Subaru Imprezza
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Cars/Suba...
Holden Commodore V6
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Cars/Hold...
BMW 5
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Cars/BMW/...
Another BMW 5
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Cars/BMW/...
BMW 3
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Cars/BMW/...
Cheers
So, I know nothing about these types of cars - previous ownership has been a few Elises, an Exige, 996 GT3 (until wife got pregnant earlier than anticipated!), 1998 Audi S8, and now a diesel people carrier. Would be good to have something that is nice to drive, but don't want anything that is going to be massively expensive to run. Obviously none of the cars below are going to be amazing on fuel economy, and there is a bit of a variation in price (which reflects the range of my budget), but I'm looking for an indication of servicing and other running costs for the types of cars below. With 2 kids and regular transport of bikes, want something vaguely practical, so either towbar or room in the boot. Any other tips on ownership, or what to look out for when buying are welcome, as are any other car suggestions.
Subaru Legacy
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Cars/Suba...
Subaru Imprezza
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Cars/Suba...
Holden Commodore V6
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Cars/Hold...
BMW 5
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Cars/BMW/...
Another BMW 5
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Cars/BMW/...
BMW 3
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Cars/BMW/...
Cheers
No specific feedback to the cars on the list, but...
I've previously owned an Audi A4 Avant here, and while shopping for it I was also looking at a Legacy. Subaru's are in general pretty high up the 'most stolen' list so they tend to attract higher insurance premiums. At a similar value, a non-turbo legacy was approx 25% more to insure for me than the A4 1.8TQ. Regardless of car, you'll find insurance here cheaper than the UK though (well I know I did).
The main bonus of the Subaru's on your list (or a Quattro, 4motion etc) is if you're into skiing/boarding. Often during the ski season the Ruapehu mountain access road can be limited to '4wd or chains' only. Having a 4wd saves you the expense and the wait of having to fit chains, also gives you a bit more security when the road's 'open' but still covered in ice.
Re: bike carrying. In a Legacy/A4 with the seats flat you'd be able to get a road bike in with both wheels on easy. For a mountainbike I've always used a tow ball mounted rack - saves having a muddy bike loaded inside. Nearly all car towballs here are plate mounted which means you can by a towball bike rack (big enough for 3 or 4 bikes) for about $150 which attaches easily with 2 Allen bolts.
If you're reasonably serious about cycling it might also be worth bringing a few 'consumables' with you. Bikes in general aren't much more expensive than the UK, but things like tyres, cassettes, pedals etc can be double the price here. It's easy enough to buy out of the UK via the interweb, but if you're shipping a load of gear anyway, it might be worth throwing in a few spares...
Hope that's useful. As Mark and Iain have said, beers in Welly when you arrive...
I've previously owned an Audi A4 Avant here, and while shopping for it I was also looking at a Legacy. Subaru's are in general pretty high up the 'most stolen' list so they tend to attract higher insurance premiums. At a similar value, a non-turbo legacy was approx 25% more to insure for me than the A4 1.8TQ. Regardless of car, you'll find insurance here cheaper than the UK though (well I know I did).
The main bonus of the Subaru's on your list (or a Quattro, 4motion etc) is if you're into skiing/boarding. Often during the ski season the Ruapehu mountain access road can be limited to '4wd or chains' only. Having a 4wd saves you the expense and the wait of having to fit chains, also gives you a bit more security when the road's 'open' but still covered in ice.
Re: bike carrying. In a Legacy/A4 with the seats flat you'd be able to get a road bike in with both wheels on easy. For a mountainbike I've always used a tow ball mounted rack - saves having a muddy bike loaded inside. Nearly all car towballs here are plate mounted which means you can by a towball bike rack (big enough for 3 or 4 bikes) for about $150 which attaches easily with 2 Allen bolts.
If you're reasonably serious about cycling it might also be worth bringing a few 'consumables' with you. Bikes in general aren't much more expensive than the UK, but things like tyres, cassettes, pedals etc can be double the price here. It's easy enough to buy out of the UK via the interweb, but if you're shipping a load of gear anyway, it might be worth throwing in a few spares...
Hope that's useful. As Mark and Iain have said, beers in Welly when you arrive...
Avoid any imports out of singapore, the humidity apparently kills the electronics.
http://www.carjam.co.nz is quite handy for basic info on a car if you have the licence plate no.
That NZ New 5 series looks genuine and you could proabbly get them to scan and email the service history over.
As has already been said in the other thread, the AA could do an inspection on your behalf.
http://www.carjam.co.nz is quite handy for basic info on a car if you have the licence plate no.
That NZ New 5 series looks genuine and you could proabbly get them to scan and email the service history over.
As has already been said in the other thread, the AA could do an inspection on your behalf.
For those kind of cars I dont think the bikes add an issue. I use a tow bar mounted rack for mine, being a hatch I can fit them inside with the backseat down but its easier to just throw it on the back.
I wouldnt plan too much till you get here, for more ordinary type cars like what your looking at there will be dozens of every model for sale once you arrive. As im sure you've already worked out the relative value of cars is quite different here with Jap stuff being cheap compared to stuff like BMWs. Get here and drive a few of each model and see what you like.
I wouldnt plan too much till you get here, for more ordinary type cars like what your looking at there will be dozens of every model for sale once you arrive. As im sure you've already worked out the relative value of cars is quite different here with Jap stuff being cheap compared to stuff like BMWs. Get here and drive a few of each model and see what you like.
GravelBen said:
Go for the Subaru, they're great! 
Who me, biased?
My regular mechanic, plus a good friend (also a mechanic) and his brother (ex panelbeater now insurance assessor) all said the same thing about Subarus when I was looking at buying a Forester. Who me, biased?That was
plus a load of profanities.As luck would have it, I've found out that sister-in-laws friends who emigrated to Paraparaumu (how do you pronounce it?!) have a work colleague who is a car buyer for a living, buying c 3,000 cars per year. Hopefully should be able to get some help and sound advice, possibly with auctions that I don't have enough in depth knowledge to feel confident enough in doing myself!
I'm sure there will be varying opinions out there anyway.
Re bikes - yes - had been planning on bringing a supply of consumables for the 7 bikes we are bringing between me and the missus. So yes, relatively serious, but more into road than mtb at the moment. With the MTB I am ok up hills, but sh!t on the way down, so will need practice!
Plans are coming together - arrive on Fri 23rd July 8am, and have accomodation in central Welly for the first week. How exciting! Cheers for the various offers of beers, cheers D1ggy for the email, will be in touch at some point.
I'm sure there will be varying opinions out there anyway.
Re bikes - yes - had been planning on bringing a supply of consumables for the 7 bikes we are bringing between me and the missus. So yes, relatively serious, but more into road than mtb at the moment. With the MTB I am ok up hills, but sh!t on the way down, so will need practice!
Plans are coming together - arrive on Fri 23rd July 8am, and have accomodation in central Welly for the first week. How exciting! Cheers for the various offers of beers, cheers D1ggy for the email, will be in touch at some point.
lestag said:
Exige46 said:
As luck would have it, I've found out that sister-in-laws friends who emigrated to Paraparaumu (how do you pronounce it?!)
para para ooo moo (maori)or para par am (pakeha b
disation)good luck with our english language!
Insurance can be a bit pricey I agree (with turbo versions in particular), I think mostly due to some younger drivers who appreciate the performance/$$ ratio a little too enthusiastically.
Fuel economy depends what you compare it to - I average around 26mpg from mine ('02 Legacy GTB) in mixed use, 30-33mpg making decent progress on the open road which I think is pretty reasonable from a 280bhp twin-turbo AWD wagon. I think a lot of that reputation is a hangover from early-mid 90's cars which were much thirstier, my old '90 2.0 NA Legacy certainly liked a drink.
Drivetrain failures are very rare though unless you make a frequent habit of leaving traffic lights with a dropped clutch at 5000rpm - obviously a greater risk with older turbo cars as they're more likely to have been owned by someone who does drive like that. In that case the clutch it generally the sacrificial weak point as they won't spin it away through wheelspin like a 2wd car.
Like I said, the most expensive things I've had to replace have been tyres, only real mechanical issues I can remember were a couple of sensor failures - AFM on the '97 and MAP on the current car. Cambelt at 100k is the priciest service item but no worse than most V6's.
The most common really major thing you hear about is engine death on older turbos due to lean-out detonation (no.3 cylinder as it runs the hottest), nearly always caused by some combination of low-octane fuel, incompetent modifications (hey lets wind it up to 18psi and see what happens) or mechanical abuse. Common sense, normal mechanical sympathy and sensible servicing are important as with any performance car IMO.
Sorry if this is a thread hijack! I have to say that my experience and that of other long-term Sub owners I personally know is very different to the stories you hear about some bloke I met down the pub knew this guy whose mate had 3 of them explode on the same day even though he never took them over 3000rpm and then he rebuilt them for $50,000 each and then the clutch let go and the gearboxes fell out onto the road... exaggerating there but you get the general idea!
Fuel economy depends what you compare it to - I average around 26mpg from mine ('02 Legacy GTB) in mixed use, 30-33mpg making decent progress on the open road which I think is pretty reasonable from a 280bhp twin-turbo AWD wagon. I think a lot of that reputation is a hangover from early-mid 90's cars which were much thirstier, my old '90 2.0 NA Legacy certainly liked a drink.
Drivetrain failures are very rare though unless you make a frequent habit of leaving traffic lights with a dropped clutch at 5000rpm - obviously a greater risk with older turbo cars as they're more likely to have been owned by someone who does drive like that. In that case the clutch it generally the sacrificial weak point as they won't spin it away through wheelspin like a 2wd car.
Like I said, the most expensive things I've had to replace have been tyres, only real mechanical issues I can remember were a couple of sensor failures - AFM on the '97 and MAP on the current car. Cambelt at 100k is the priciest service item but no worse than most V6's.
The most common really major thing you hear about is engine death on older turbos due to lean-out detonation (no.3 cylinder as it runs the hottest), nearly always caused by some combination of low-octane fuel, incompetent modifications (hey lets wind it up to 18psi and see what happens) or mechanical abuse. Common sense, normal mechanical sympathy and sensible servicing are important as with any performance car IMO.
Sorry if this is a thread hijack! I have to say that my experience and that of other long-term Sub owners I personally know is very different to the stories you hear about some bloke I met down the pub knew this guy whose mate had 3 of them explode on the same day even though he never took them over 3000rpm and then he rebuilt them for $50,000 each and then the clutch let go and the gearboxes fell out onto the road... exaggerating there but you get the general idea!
Edited by GravelBen on Tuesday 15th June 12:15
Following on from Gravelben’s post, (hopefully this line of thought continues to be helpful and not a hijack),
I have owned 3 Subarus since 2005 and have not had any issues at all (with the exception of some synchro wear on my 91 Legacy Sedan, I sold it to another local and I still see it driving around).
My Subaru loving mechanic hit the nail the on the hit when he said: “Subaru and Maintenance are two words that aren’t often used together in the same sentence”. Either the owner OR the previous owner has thrashed it, put the wrong liquids in it, and/or not followed the service guidelines.
Most people I speak to hold to this idea that the reputation of early-mid 1990’s 2nd, 3rd, 4th hand thrashed models applies to all Subarus. I have yet to speak to any who still holds to this view after owning an unmolested example.
The biggest problem I have had is finding a good mechanic who knows what they are doing and does what they say they will do. I had to have the cambelt replaced twice on each of my first two Subarus because the mechanics (different ones each time), purposely cut corners or didn’t do the work properly.
If you find a good example (they are out there), put the right fuel and oil in it, have some mechanical sympathy, maintain it like you should (surely those 3 apply to any car), find a good honest mechanic who knows and likes Subarus, from my experience I don’t know of any reason why you shouldn’t have trouble free motoring.
Best of luck finding the car for you.
I have owned 3 Subarus since 2005 and have not had any issues at all (with the exception of some synchro wear on my 91 Legacy Sedan, I sold it to another local and I still see it driving around).
My Subaru loving mechanic hit the nail the on the hit when he said: “Subaru and Maintenance are two words that aren’t often used together in the same sentence”. Either the owner OR the previous owner has thrashed it, put the wrong liquids in it, and/or not followed the service guidelines.
Most people I speak to hold to this idea that the reputation of early-mid 1990’s 2nd, 3rd, 4th hand thrashed models applies to all Subarus. I have yet to speak to any who still holds to this view after owning an unmolested example.
The biggest problem I have had is finding a good mechanic who knows what they are doing and does what they say they will do. I had to have the cambelt replaced twice on each of my first two Subarus because the mechanics (different ones each time), purposely cut corners or didn’t do the work properly.
If you find a good example (they are out there), put the right fuel and oil in it, have some mechanical sympathy, maintain it like you should (surely those 3 apply to any car), find a good honest mechanic who knows and likes Subarus, from my experience I don’t know of any reason why you shouldn’t have trouble free motoring.
Best of luck finding the car for you.
Former Subaru owner myself, ran it into the ground and suffered all the abuse I threw at it for carting toys around, sand salt mud you name it. This was a std FWD non turbo auto wagon. Servicing cheaper than my Audi by a long shot. I only sold it as it was a target for theives (broken into once) so I wanted to try something different. I am considering another Subaru though. But but got to say the Audis have something about them I like, just feel better put together, stylish interior, better looking imo. Audi RS4 if your feeling rich..... oh my 
Hard call really. Try as many as you can.
Hard call really. Try as many as you can.Well that bought the Subaru supports out of the wood work. Best I...
Actually the advice given to me was not the case of some guy in the pub that knew someone, who knew someone else. I've known all three blokes for more than two decades. One was an owner and could not sell his fast enough. The other two are both experienced mechanics that have worked on every common make of car in NZ. Neither had anything overly supportive to say about the marque. Although often when a mechanic does see a car it's because it's broken.
So it just goes to show what differing opinions you can get from different people when it comes to cars. No wonder Ford and Holden fans can be so emotional towards each other.
Actually the advice given to me was not the case of some guy in the pub that knew someone, who knew someone else. I've known all three blokes for more than two decades. One was an owner and could not sell his fast enough. The other two are both experienced mechanics that have worked on every common make of car in NZ. Neither had anything overly supportive to say about the marque. Although often when a mechanic does see a car it's because it's broken.
So it just goes to show what differing opinions you can get from different people when it comes to cars. No wonder Ford and Holden fans can be so emotional towards each other.
Edited by Atom Johnny on Thursday 17th June 02:34
Gassing Station | New Zealand | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff