Taupo Track - The new one

Taupo Track - The new one

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Kiwi XTR2

Original Poster:

2,693 posts

239 months

Wednesday 16th August 2006
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So who has actually driven the whole track and what do you think ?



It seems that most of the trackdays are either Track 2 (2.2km) or Track 3 (1.3km) rather than the full biscuit.

I see Dean cooked his brakes on the full circuit. Is this something that others need to worry about or just a technical flaw in the Londa

iwilson

246 posts

290 months

Wednesday 16th August 2006
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Technical flaw now reticfied. Dean ran into the same problems as I did when I stuck a Honda in the back of my Elise. The early Elise's had Aluminium Metal Matrix composite discs(MMC). Very very light compared with iron discs but they can't cope with the amount of energy put into them with a high powered Elise. Dean now runs ali belled iron discs like me.

Kiwi Carguy

1,202 posts

223 months

Wednesday 16th August 2006
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I drove the new track one week before it was open for competition use. Some area's weren't quite finished...namely the end of the straight left hand merger but thought the track was VERY technical and I loved it. A bit tight and twisty for my laggy 911 Turbo but great for your Westie. We were there to evaluate the track and give feedback to the track developers and in general the feedback was good. At the time the track edging and run-off left allot to be desired but I'm sure that's been rectified. I enjoy Manfield but would love to be closer to Taupo

Are you going there?

Kiwi XTR2

Original Poster:

2,693 posts

239 months

Wednesday 16th August 2006
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Not sure when we'll be down there. Still got that charity deal to sort out.

Trying to get any tips I can on the new track.

renn68

281 posts

223 months

Wednesday 16th August 2006
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well, I'm heading down for a test day on the 25th, I've got some race data coming from Motorsport Services that should be useful - I've got an Aim MXL data logger that does track mapping fitted to the 968. I'll post what we learn.

Esprit

6,370 posts

290 months

Wednesday 16th August 2006
quotequote all
I've done the full track (on the same day Dean cooked his brakes). Let me say that Dean's brake failure was more due to 2 years of constant abuse from the high-powered honda engine. It was so early on the day that his brakes didn't really even have a chance to overheat, they were just worn and it was their time

The circuit certainly isn't as hard on brakes as the old Taupo track where there were 3 big braking zones with bugger all straights to cool them down, at least now there's some pace between the braking zones.

the track is indeed amazing and very technical, although due to the A1, they're now removing 2 of my favourite corners, that is the esses complex past the old pits and the "dipper" chicane left-right-left that lead from the main straight onto the new pit straight. Having said hat, the rest of the track has PLENTY of technical challenges and is a good compromise between suiting fast cars and slower cars. Lots of camber changes and you're ALWAYS thinking about where your car needs to be placed on track.

renn68

281 posts

223 months

Wednesday 16th August 2006
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Did you do any track notes when you were last there?

Esprit

6,370 posts

290 months

Wednesday 16th August 2006
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renn68 said:
Did you do any track notes when you were last there?



Didn't have enough track time to work it all out.... besides, my rear end geometry was very suspct so the car was behaving a little weird to draw any conclusions from it. I could probably give you some VERY rough pointers though if you wanted a heads-up.

renn68

281 posts

223 months

Wednesday 16th August 2006
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Anything you've got - it all helps. Either post here or renn68 at loosecannons dot co dot nz

renn68

281 posts

223 months

Wednesday 16th August 2006
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Anyone with some in-car vid footage?

Esprit

6,370 posts

290 months

Thursday 17th August 2006
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I'll post it up here. Dean had Ian's camera for the few laps before he melted his MMCs.... I was going to then take posession of it, but I don't have a harness bar and the mount wouldn't fit the rollbar tube

track notes (very rough guide) to follow.

Esprit

6,370 posts

290 months

Thursday 17th August 2006
quotequote all
I'll use the corner numbering as in this image:


Bear in mind that this is all written from the perspective of a standard(ish) Elise on road tyres and on a fairly virgin, cold surface.

Off the start-finish straight you hit turn 1. This is a constant-radius left-hander that seems to tighten but doesn't really. I spent the whole day trying to get this corner right and couldn't for some reason. You want to apex it middle to late, I found myself either turning in and apexing it too early and running wide on the exit or turning in late and somehow not being able to get anywhere near the corner apex and still running wide on the exit. I suspect this is due to over-ambitiousness on my part and you may benefit from braking well early for this corner on your first few laps to find a comfortable turn-in and apex and then adjust your braking point to suit. It's a 2nd/3rd gear corner for me.

Exiting Turn 1, you want to get as far over to the left as possible. There is a compulsion to do this quickly, but in reality there's a fair bit of a run up to turn 2 so you can probably drift across smoothly. Turn 2 is pretty straight forward and you should be able to take this corner flat although you may benefit from a slight lift on turn-in to set the car up, simply go from the extreme left, apex it as late as possible (towards the end of the inside ripple strip) to set you up for turn 3. Turns 2 and 3 are really a large right-left chicane. The track dips in elevation going through here but is pretty decent camber-wise.

Apexing turn 2 late should allow you to keep about 3/4 towards the right of the track at the exit, you want to stay as far right as possible because you want to get a good entry into turn 3 to set you up for turn 4. Turn 3 in itself is pretty innocent and can basically be taken flat as with turn 2, the thing is with turn 3, just after you apex this, you want to be on the brakes hard for turn four. Hence, the best way is to try and apex turn 3 late and exit shallow and straight. I found myself braking pretty heavily from just after the Turn 3 apex for the right-hand turn 4.

Now Turn 4 is a tricky one. It looks sharper on the picture than I feel it really is. It certainly looks VERY open when you're approaching it. Going through 2 & 3 you've gone down in a dip and Turn 4 actually rises back up with the camber dropping away sharpishly from the apex. If you get a good exit from turn 3, you can straighten the car and get on the brakes heavily and begin to turn in to the apex, which is about where you'll expect it to be. The trick is to get back on the power but to not carry too much speed through the corner or get on the power too violently through turn 4 as the car seems to be pretty unsettled here. There's a decent straight run out of 4 into 5 and although it's not a straight as such, good corner speed through 4 will gain you a lot of time on other drivers as I feel 4 is one of those corners a lot of people will learn very quickly to be cautious (slow) through. A good technique to 4 that I've yet to try might be braking earlier out of three and trying to have the car stabilised with power partially on before even turning into 4. Basically it's one of those corners you're going to have to play around with and see what line/inputs make your car the most stable around there.

Accelerating hard out of 4 you'll be right on the white line on the left of the track. Brake HARD and down to about 2nd gear for the right-hand turn 5. Turn 5 looks off-camber on entry but you can actually apex it pretty early and the car will naturally run wide on the exit but the track straightens as it does so. Turn 5 is really one of the classic "slow in, fast out" corners. You'll then be hard on the throttle through 2nd and third gears up to turn 6.

Turn 6 is less of a corner and more of a kink, there's no reason why you won't be able to take it flat out. You want to apex this corner very late but cut it very close on the exit. I've found that I was actually turning very very late for 6 and actually was trying to traightline the car before the apex so that I could get on the brakes hard for turn 7 without upsetting the car. Either way you will be braking for 7 before you're completely done with 6 so do whatever works best with your car so as to not get completely crossed up going into 7.

Turn 7 has a decent whack of camber on it and you can use this to your advantage. Throw the car in towards the apex it pretty early and the corner opens up, so much that if you treat it like an early-apex, constant-radius corner you'll actually find yourself almost finding a second apex towards the corner exit. You don't actually want to hit this second apex, but from the early apex of the corner (due to the aggressive camber) you should be able to be pretty brutal with the power coming out and just gradually reduce your steering angle from the apex and gradually let the car open out towards the right hand side of the track.

Turn 8 is a flat-out left-hander that (like turn 6) also encompasses part of the baking zone for the very tight turn 9/10 complex. You almost don't want to apex this corner at all, stay very wide on entry and stick towards the outside then just gradually bring it closer and closer in as the corner progresses. You want to be at a point where you're still some way away from the inside of the track but heading more or less straight THROUGH the corner so that the car's straightened by the time you get back hard on the brakes for Turn 9.

Turn 9 you want to treat like a 180-degree right-hand hairpin but because there's another 180-degree hairpin left directly after it you want to apex later than you would at a normal hairpin bend. I've found that although you want to get most of your braking for turn 9 done before you get there, a little trail-braking or perhaps a little bit of controlled compression-locking of the rear wheels could help turn in here. Because the turn 9/10 complex is so very tight and the camber changes all over the place, you really have to wrestle the car through here while being very ginger with the throttle. What worked for me was trail-braking into 9, letting the back come out a few degrees and turning the car on with the back sliding a little, gradually back on the power to the late apex but very gently as this corner marks the transition from the new section of trak to the old section so there's a sudden camber change in the middle of turn 9 that does its best to prevent you from getting drive out of 9 and through 10. Given that 9 and 10 are so close and tight, you can almost use turn 9 as a scandanavian flick into 10. Carry the changeover momentum from 9 into 10 and use it to get the car turned in for a mid-corner apex.

You're now onto the old section of the track. Note that Turns 11, 2 and 13 are being reprofiled for A1GP so what's written below may have no actual bearing on the track the next time we're there.

Very gently back on the power to avoid wheelspin and move almost all the way to the left to set yourself up for the right hander at turn 11. Turn 11 should be able to be taken flat out with a late apex. Maybe a lift to aid turn-in may help here, I use this lift as a chance to change into third as I'm almost at the limiter in 2nd by then. Apexing 11 late and hard, taking just a little of the ripple strip with you as you pass should drift the car a little to the left and set you up perfectly for the 12-13 complex. These two corners are taken completely flat out and you want to be very aggressive and take a good chunk of the ripple strip of each of these corners as you go. You don't want to hit the ripple strip so hard that it bucks the car, but given that you're flat out on the throttle at this stage, the car's able to take a fair bit of unsettling without doing anything silly. the 12-13 complex is really a flick-flack where you just transition from one to the other without even thinking. Running wide out of 13 I'm using most of the track here and take this chance to grab 4th gear.

The track begins to curve left well before turn 14, you want to stay pretty close to the inside of the track here as you have to brake hard and late for 14 to make the most of your fast exit from the 12/13 complex. Staying close to the inside and getting VERY hard on the brakes and down into third gear will unsettle the car into 14. You'll find yourself basically heading towards a turn-in point very late and almost IN the corner. Turn 14 is very flat camber compared to how it used to be so you have to tru and scrub off all your speed on the late entry, turn the car in and just try to gradually reel in the late apex. The corner seems to go on for ages and the apex just seems to never come. You don't want to get caught too wide here either as it's a very dirty corner, often from people rejoing the track after losing it under brakes and because you're entering the main straight, you want to really clip that apex and be full on the throttle well before you apex it so that you can maximise your exit speed by decreasing he steering angle from the apex onwards, letting the car just naturally run wide to the outside ripple-strip.

Now you're on the straight and it's a long one. Stick from the middle to the right as the inside is usually very dirty, but this of course will depend on traffic. the straight does seem ver long and it's wide so you'll feel like you're cruising down the motorway at 100km/h. It's not as fast in terms of terminal velocity as the back straight at Puke.

The next complex at 15-16-17 is AWESOME, but sadly is due to be removed (I think) before A1GP arrives. The first left-hander really drops away suddenly to the right hander and then climbs back up for the second left hander. It was already being dubbed "the corkscrew" by the regulars.

Being the last of the late brakers here can really help you. Again this first left hander is a corner that will tolerate some trail-braking on turn in although don't be too aggressive about it as you want to have the car "balanced" through here rather than sliding. The apex for 15 is pretty much where you expect it to be and you actually turn in while still going very fast. The track opens right out at the exit of 15 almost like corner 15 is going to continue going around to the left. You actually want to use some of this track to continue scrubbing off speed. This will put you in a weird position but you'll now be slowed right down and able to affect a very sharp, late turn in for the right-hander at 16. You're now down in the bottom of a dip and you almost climb up through 16.

Given that you apex 16 late, you should be able to carry some throttle through here and then lift off to turn in late again for 17. Because you apexed 16 late, you will now be heading for a lateish apex at 17 and can be pretty brutal with the throttle into 17 because the corner will open and the car can drift wide to the pit wall. You want to get on the power as early as possible here because the pit straight, although not fast, is of useful length and the heavy braking back into Turn 1 (once you've actually sorted out your braking point) offers a good opportunity to overtake.


Well there you go, those are my basic impressions from what I remember. Might or might not be relevant to you but maybe in conjunction with the circuit diagram above you'll be able to form a slightly better picture of the form of each of the corners. I've done a best laptime there of 1:54.9 so it's a LONG lap but as I said, I never got fully on top of the track the full day, I didn't do a SINGLE lap that didn't have at least 3 or 4 mistakes in it, and some corners like Turn 1, I didn't get even close to right all day! I'd say that my car will be capable of sub-1:50s there once the driver's educated enough.

as has been said the circuit is a VERY technical one with a lot of complexes and very few corners that can be taken in isolation without worrying about what's omcing next. Elevation and camber changes are frequent so be careful and allow yourself to gradually build into it, and it's also a circuit where the car is almost always loaded up one way or another so in terms of setup, getting a car that transitions from one direction to other well and predictably could be useful. It's a circuit that's VERY tricky for road-cars as road-spec suspension (sich as in the standard Elise) doesn't take too kindly to the flip-flop type transitions where excess roll and momentum can really upset a car.

Wow... what an essay... think yourself lucky that I'm sick in bed with a headcold today with nothing better to do



Edited by Esprit on Thursday 17th August 01:21

kylie

4,391 posts

264 months

Thursday 17th August 2006
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Wow great description!!! Take it easy, seems a bit of that nasty bug going around. I obtained a map of the original track with the best racing lines drawn into it from The Formula Challenge crew. It was such a valuable tool and got results instantly just by studying that. So since youre at home could you enlarge this map, draw in the driving line and post up as to how you see it, as described above? Could open up some nice debate for the others

Ohhh go on

Edited by kylie on Thursday 17th August 02:08

renn68

281 posts

223 months

Thursday 17th August 2006
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many thanks for that - looks like it might need a bit of quite time to digest - it will be something to fill in the time while being pit-boy for my better half out at Puke on sunday.

If its the lurg thats going about, its 3 days in bed followed by 2 weeks of coughing.

iwilson

246 posts

290 months

Thursday 17th August 2006
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Great write up George. I'll be down there in October for a day on the full track.

Regarding Dean's MMC's. They weren't worn out, in fact MMC's are capable of lasting for the life of the car, they hardly wear compared to iron disks and the pads can last 10's of thousands of miles. With Dean they just got to hot and the surface melted. It only takes a few minutes of abuse to do the damage. He had been on the borderline for sometime. One day I'll get around to designing a mkII version of water cooling them and I'll put them back on in the blink of an eye. They are superior in every way to iron discs except for thermal loading.

Esprit

6,370 posts

290 months

Thursday 17th August 2006
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Kylie,

To be honest, I don't think it would come out too well unless maybe the imae was HUUUUUUUUGE as pretty much anything I could draw on it would just look like a generic "ideal" racing line (outside, turn-in, apex, outside). Might be best for you to print the image as larg as you can get it with my commentary and try to visualise it corner by corner. It's such a tecknical track with many of the "tricks" being as I've described in getting the transitions right between many of the left-right combinations, this wouldn't really come up on a "racing line" diagram I feel.

George,

Yeah I can imagine it's something that's worth reading a few times to digest properly. It's probably the sort of thing that's be MOST benecicial if you could read it corner by corner while watching some paused video. there's a video here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc
But it's not the best, might be worth scouring the net to see if there's any more.



as for the cold... I had some swollen glands in myneck a week or two back and EVERYONE in my office has been sick... started coughing after the gym on Monday and it went straight to my chest hen came up to my head.... not feeling too bad at the moment, more trying to rest up and get over it rather than work and make it worse..... in any case, lying in bed, drinking lots of water and not earing much HAS to be good for my power-weight ratio

renn68

281 posts

223 months

Thursday 17th August 2006
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Managed to line up Richard Lester for a bit of one on one, so that should be a big help. My partner is doing her first dual sprint (and her second ever sprint)and is a bit apprehensive, so a bit of the pressure is off me to learn her good.

kylie

4,391 posts

264 months

Thursday 17th August 2006
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renn68 said:
Managed to line up Richard Lester for a bit of one on one, so that should be a big help. My partner is doing her first dual sprint (and her second ever sprint)and is a bit apprehensive, so a bit of the pressure is off me to learn her good.


Is that Saturday or Sunday at Puke or Taupo? If Sun and at Puke may come out and support Ang if B.Beauty is back.

renn68

281 posts

223 months

Thursday 17th August 2006
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Its sunday - not sure if you'll be able to get across the track though 'cos PCNZ don't open the gates during the event. Mind you, they do see benefit in having instructors in the car in the open track session unlike some other clubs.

Kiwi XTR2

Original Poster:

2,693 posts

239 months

Thursday 17th August 2006
quotequote all
Cheers very much for the lap description George.

As for the track diagram - The pdf is reasonable resolution but the perspective irritates me. What's wrong with a proper eye-of-god plan rather than this perspective rubbish.