Saker Build Update
Discussion
Hi guy's,
Popped up to Bunnythorpe today to check on the progress of my Saker and also to take some pictures of the WRX engine I am now selling due to that damn Murphy!
Bruce has been getting on well and although it doesn't look like much, he has done quite a bit so I was stoked. He has fitted...
The steering rack (plastic shroud will be replaced by a carbon setup).
Willwood Brake and Clutch pedal set-up.
Modified rear section for the longer 6 speed WRX gearbox.
Pop riveted all the alloy panels and fitted the floor(now removed ready for install later).
Fitted windscreen wiper motor.
Installed all the brake lines.
Removed all suspension arms to be anodised.
Removed all hubs for brake/disc upgrade.
That's about it. Initially I had purchased a 2004 WRX STi engine for it but then just after it arrived at Bruces a brand new 2.5 WRX STi engine came up so I brought that instead. We were originally going to run the WRX 5speed but are now going with the stronger 6speed which Bruce hasn't used before. I am going to run the new LinkPlus G3 ECU and Link Dispay and Link has offered a sponsorship arrangement which will be great for me and good exposure for both Saker and Link. They were great to talk to and deal with too. I'll keep updating this thread as the project develops. KiwiXTR2 suggested an online build log but I have no idea where to start or do that?
WRX engine for sale for anyone interested www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=63276585
Popped up to Bunnythorpe today to check on the progress of my Saker and also to take some pictures of the WRX engine I am now selling due to that damn Murphy!
Bruce has been getting on well and although it doesn't look like much, he has done quite a bit so I was stoked. He has fitted...
The steering rack (plastic shroud will be replaced by a carbon setup).
Willwood Brake and Clutch pedal set-up.
Modified rear section for the longer 6 speed WRX gearbox.
Pop riveted all the alloy panels and fitted the floor(now removed ready for install later).
Fitted windscreen wiper motor.
Installed all the brake lines.
Removed all suspension arms to be anodised.
Removed all hubs for brake/disc upgrade.
That's about it. Initially I had purchased a 2004 WRX STi engine for it but then just after it arrived at Bruces a brand new 2.5 WRX STi engine came up so I brought that instead. We were originally going to run the WRX 5speed but are now going with the stronger 6speed which Bruce hasn't used before. I am going to run the new LinkPlus G3 ECU and Link Dispay and Link has offered a sponsorship arrangement which will be great for me and good exposure for both Saker and Link. They were great to talk to and deal with too. I'll keep updating this thread as the project develops. KiwiXTR2 suggested an online build log but I have no idea where to start or do that?
WRX engine for sale for anyone interested www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=63276585
Edited by Kiwi Carguy on Sunday 16th July 11:26
I'll be very interested to know how you get on with the Link G3. I've read the spec' of this new ECU and it does sound impressive.
I've been a bit put-off going the Link route again in the future due to some bad experiences with my current LMS. However, I realise I purchase my ECU a number of years ago and companies do progress.
I've been a bit put-off going the Link route again in the future due to some bad experiences with my current LMS. However, I realise I purchase my ECU a number of years ago and companies do progress.
jamieheasman said:
I'll be very interested to know how you get on with the Link G3. I've read the spec' of this new ECU and it does sound impressive.
I've been a bit put-off going the Link route again in the future due to some bad experiences with my current LMS. However, I realise I purchase my ECU a number of years ago and companies do progress.
I've been a bit put-off going the Link route again in the future due to some bad experiences with my current LMS. However, I realise I purchase my ECU a number of years ago and companies do progress.
I agree. There has been alot of criticism with their older stuff which I believe some is valid (like poor cold start and idle control etc) but they were just a small NZ company starting out. Much the same could be said for other companies in their early stages. I have only ever owned one Link which I brought new from them about 7 years ago. It worked fine. From my experience alot of the criticism came from people who didn't spend the money on tuning or did but with the wrong person. The ECU is only as good as it's tuner. Other thing is that people often never compaired apples with apples. Say the standard Link on an Evo road car against a Motec on Super GT style EVO. Price wise they're worlds apart and the expectation is alot higher. There is also alot of heresay and tales out there and I've had a few "oh it can only do this" and "it'll be a cut down version" etc and when I've asked Link have said in every case that it's not true.
For me the LinkG3 and Link Display will cost around $3K full retail. The Motec alone is $3500 without the Motec display.
There are also quite a few very respected cars running the G2 and showing excellant results.
I still think Motec are #1 but it comes at a cost.
Edited by Kiwi Carguy on Monday 17th July 06:13
GravelBen said:
Looks like fun 
what sort of power are you likely to be getting out of the 2.5? apparently the 04 Sti EJ20 motor can handle 450bhp on the stock internals, which is pretty respectable so will be interesting to see what the 2.5 will run.
what sort of power are you likely to be getting out of the 2.5? apparently the 04 Sti EJ20 motor can handle 450bhp on the stock internals, which is pretty respectable so will be interesting to see what the 2.5 will run.I spoke to several highly regarded Subaru tuners and it's been quite interesting to dispell alot of myths.
The V7 STi (bugeye) engine has forged pistons but from V8 STi onwards Subaru used Hyperutectic pistons.
The V8 was still regarded as a much better option because as a package they found it a much better engine to mod and a heap better with the addition of forged pistons and rods further down the track. The version 8 also came with factory twin scroll turbo and extractors. All the engine builders felt the 320-350hp was realistically achievable with careful tuning but anything over that was optimistic or BS. I have no doubt some have reached 400+ but "for how long"?
The 2.5 STi is supposed to be safe for 19psi max and around circa 400hp but once again it comes back to reliability and skills of the tuner. Future performance upgrades are much more favourable with guys in the US reaching between 600-700hp (obviously at a cost). Link, PBM and others and having great reults so far and all recommended the 2.5 over the 2.0L. They are just very hard to find.
Ohok, interesting stuff I'm actually surprised the power claims are as low as 320-350bhp given that grpN rally cars run around 300 and have an incredibly hard life, and I haven't really heard of any engine problems other than the turbos letting go on those. Or do they modify more than they let on in those motors?
Marty Roestenburg runs a 3.0 twin-turbo H6 in his hillclimb Impreza at around 700bhp, and the Ex-Possum car (originally a WRC97 I think) now driven by Eriksson at the Race to the Sky is pushing out around 750bhp from an EJ20, but it is somewhat fragile. I guess you can't really make a direct comparison between competition and road motors though.
I'm actually surprised the power claims are as low as 320-350bhp given that grpN rally cars run around 300 and have an incredibly hard life, and I haven't really heard of any engine problems other than the turbos letting go on those. Or do they modify more than they let on in those motors? Marty Roestenburg runs a 3.0 twin-turbo H6 in his hillclimb Impreza at around 700bhp, and the Ex-Possum car (originally a WRC97 I think) now driven by Eriksson at the Race to the Sky is pushing out around 750bhp from an EJ20, but it is somewhat fragile. I guess you can't really make a direct comparison between competition and road motors though.
You summed it up in your last sentence.
Things like what fuel C16?
How often rebuilt?
What budget $25K engine only?
David from Link said they had the H6 of Marty's pushing 600+hp and the gearbox was the only limiting factor. The engine had plently more but they had to back off!
I had an FJ20T built by Reg Cook a few years back and I remember him saying people would spend $20K with him for 8hp just so they had 8hp more than the next guy down the back straight at Puke in a race.
Things like what fuel C16?
How often rebuilt?
What budget $25K engine only?
David from Link said they had the H6 of Marty's pushing 600+hp and the gearbox was the only limiting factor. The engine had plently more but they had to back off!
I had an FJ20T built by Reg Cook a few years back and I remember him saying people would spend $20K with him for 8hp just so they had 8hp more than the next guy down the back straight at Puke in a race.
The other thing to remember about mega-horsepower turbo motors is driveability. So it'll hit 800bhp on a dyno - big deal! What's it like when you try and drive it? The number of times I've seen or heard of 1000bhp Skylines getting their awses whooped at a track day or a run-what-you-brung by a 300bhp TVR, Noble or stock EVO is laughable. As mentioned before, it's all about braggin' rights with these people.
The Group 'N' question is a case in point. So the cars are limited to 300bhp but it's the torque curve that tells the story. They've got monster grunt from bugger-all revs and they're kept nicely on the boil by some sophisticated electronics and flash gearboxes.
It's all about how they drive!
By the way, my troubles with my Link were due to them admitting some years after I bought it that it doesn't really seem to work with the Rover V8! Thanks guys! Also, my ignitor failed and when we opened it up to see if it was anything obvious we discovered the whole board was suspended by a capacitor (or one of those little electronic thingys anyway) inside the case. Even I could work out what would happen when you placed this in an engine bay!
The LEM was very basic. In my opinion it did (and does) lack some basic tuning options needed to get a well behaved road car, especially if it's running one of Aunties V8s. Looking at the spec' of the later ECUs they obviously realised these shortcomings and addressed them. This is why the G3 looks so good.
I wasn't aware they'd released their dash yet? $3000 for both is very, very cheap given the spec' of the ECU. Isn't the Motec dash something like $7,000 on it's own? If you were building a car to race at LeMans you'd go Motec, for road-use and minor competition stuff it'd be hard to go passed the G3.
The Group 'N' question is a case in point. So the cars are limited to 300bhp but it's the torque curve that tells the story. They've got monster grunt from bugger-all revs and they're kept nicely on the boil by some sophisticated electronics and flash gearboxes.
It's all about how they drive!
By the way, my troubles with my Link were due to them admitting some years after I bought it that it doesn't really seem to work with the Rover V8! Thanks guys! Also, my ignitor failed and when we opened it up to see if it was anything obvious we discovered the whole board was suspended by a capacitor (or one of those little electronic thingys anyway) inside the case. Even I could work out what would happen when you placed this in an engine bay!
The LEM was very basic. In my opinion it did (and does) lack some basic tuning options needed to get a well behaved road car, especially if it's running one of Aunties V8s. Looking at the spec' of the later ECUs they obviously realised these shortcomings and addressed them. This is why the G3 looks so good.
I wasn't aware they'd released their dash yet? $3000 for both is very, very cheap given the spec' of the ECU. Isn't the Motec dash something like $7,000 on it's own? If you were building a car to race at LeMans you'd go Motec, for road-use and minor competition stuff it'd be hard to go passed the G3.
jamieheasman said:
The Group 'N' question is a case in point. So the cars are limited to 300bhp but it's the torque curve that tells the story. They've got monster grunt from bugger-all revs and they're kept nicely on the boil by some sophisticated electronics and flash gearboxes.
A WRC car actually has more torque than an aussie V8 racer (still can't bring myself to call them 'supercars') despite having less than half the power. Anti-lag is quite clever, but grp N gearboxes aren't actually that flash
just rather tough 5-speed manuals, with extremely close ratios. None of this sequential flappy-paddle stuff like WRC (or XTR2 
)though. Edited by GravelBen on Tuesday 18th July 04:53
jamieheasman said:
The other thing to remember about mega-horsepower turbo motors is driveability. So it'll hit 800bhp on a dyno - big deal! What's it like when you try and drive it? The number of times I've seen or heard of 1000bhp Skylines getting their awses whooped at a track day or a run-what-you-brung by a 300bhp TVR, Noble or stock EVO is laughable. As mentioned before, it's all about braggin' rights with these people.
The Group 'N' question is a case in point. So the cars are limited to 300bhp but it's the torque curve that tells the story. They've got monster grunt from bugger-all revs and they're kept nicely on the boil by some sophisticated electronics and flash gearboxes.
It's all about how they drive!
By the way, my troubles with my Link were due to them admitting some years after I bought it that it doesn't really seem to work with the Rover V8! Thanks guys! Also, my ignitor failed and when we opened it up to see if it was anything obvious we discovered the whole board was suspended by a capacitor (or one of those little electronic thingys anyway) inside the case. Even I could work out what would happen when you placed this in an engine bay!
The LEM was very basic. In my opinion it did (and does) lack some basic tuning options needed to get a well behaved road car, especially if it's running one of Aunties V8s. Looking at the spec' of the later ECUs they obviously realised these shortcomings and addressed them. This is why the G3 looks so good.
I wasn't aware they'd released their dash yet? $3000 for both is very, very cheap given the spec' of the ECU. Isn't the Motec dash something like $7,000 on it's own? If you were building a car to race at LeMans you'd go Motec, for road-use and minor competition stuff it'd be hard to go passed the G3.
The Group 'N' question is a case in point. So the cars are limited to 300bhp but it's the torque curve that tells the story. They've got monster grunt from bugger-all revs and they're kept nicely on the boil by some sophisticated electronics and flash gearboxes.
It's all about how they drive!
By the way, my troubles with my Link were due to them admitting some years after I bought it that it doesn't really seem to work with the Rover V8! Thanks guys! Also, my ignitor failed and when we opened it up to see if it was anything obvious we discovered the whole board was suspended by a capacitor (or one of those little electronic thingys anyway) inside the case. Even I could work out what would happen when you placed this in an engine bay!
The LEM was very basic. In my opinion it did (and does) lack some basic tuning options needed to get a well behaved road car, especially if it's running one of Aunties V8s. Looking at the spec' of the later ECUs they obviously realised these shortcomings and addressed them. This is why the G3 looks so good.
I wasn't aware they'd released their dash yet? $3000 for both is very, very cheap given the spec' of the ECU. Isn't the Motec dash something like $7,000 on it's own? If you were building a car to race at LeMans you'd go Motec, for road-use and minor competition stuff it'd be hard to go passed the G3.
Couldn't have said it better mate. I remember when I had a 750SS Ducati and over Pikok Hill I was as quick as my mates 900RR Fireblade although well down on power. The Duke just had so much torque and was much more rideable.
The old saying "Torque wins races"
I had no doubt you had issues with the LEM. Many had. Attached is a pic of the new circuit board. Kelford cams are running the Larger Link Display in there Honda Drag car. Link have very little about it on their site tho and nothing on the larger display. www.linkecu.com/products/TuningTools/DisplayLink
Edited by Kiwi Carguy on Wednesday 19th July 07:25
Popped into the workshop on my way home from Taupo just to say hi and surprise surprise the engine was in! Only had my crappy cellphone camera but you get the idea. I'm going back up soon to watch the body being made at set stages so will take my camera then.
Engine and 6 speed in. Rear of chassis modified for mounting gearbox. That's not quite finished. Top and bottom suspension arms have all been sand blasted and anodised. That's them in the box. 280mm front rotors mounted. Adapters have been made for the nissan 4 pots. Seat brakets etc had been started but are not pictured.
Engine and 6 speed in. Rear of chassis modified for mounting gearbox. That's not quite finished. Top and bottom suspension arms have all been sand blasted and anodised. That's them in the box. 280mm front rotors mounted. Adapters have been made for the nissan 4 pots. Seat brakets etc had been started but are not pictured.
Edited by Kiwi Carguy on Monday 31st July 11:41
Man those pics are worst than I thought. FDL who make the bodies have offered me a tour of the factory and a peek at the body being made at a couple of stages. I'll be taking pics then and posting them up. Once the gearbox fabrication is done Bruce said the next stage is re-assembly of all the mechanicals. The fuel tank is also being ordered and goes in between the engine and seats.
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