Boys in Blue don't you just love 'em
Discussion
Cruising back to Pukekohe from a trip to Tauranga. Going through some road works at 5.30pm (putting up crash barriers). The boys had packed up for the day, and plod is sitting there with a speed trap. 93 in a temp 70. Ask him straight away to cut the crap and just write the ticket. Inquire as to why he was there - answer to protect the road workers. Fair comment I say except for the fact there are none, so why isn't he somewhere else doing something useful. No comment. Then he checks the WOF sticker, I can't see it's expiry date and neither can he - it's faded away. Its due in June and I've just had it in for a service and pre-warrant check. He checks on his computer and its out of date. So he tags on another two hundred dollars for:
"No evidence of inspection"
Whatever the hell that’s supposed to mean I don't know. I mean if he had asked I'd have produced this check sheet from the 15th when the car when in for the service (only got the car back on Monday).
May as well scan the ticket while I'm at it.
I presume no evidence of inspection is lawyer speak for no warrant of fitness. But if you can't read the bloody expiry date, that's not my problem, that simply a case of a poorly designed WOF ticket. What is the point of writing an expiry date if its going to fade away before the warrant itself expires?
Anyway when he did reappear to hand the ticket over, I again asked why he wasn't doing something useful when there was no sign of any workers. He informed me they were still working around the corner - as expected when I got going no sign of any activity, so he perjured himself. If the missus hadn’t been in the car with me I’d have turned around and informed him of the fact.
I have no issue with getting the ticket I was speeding after all. I have an issue with these knobs setting up speed traps not for public safety but for revenue generation – in this particular case the workers had departed sometime before, and so should have he. I have an issue when it takes 6 hours for them to turn up when you report a burglary - and you know the only use they're going to be is to issue a Police report for insurance purposes.
But one thing I pride myself on is I never, ever, do the bend over and take it up the arse routine when they pull me over. Let’s face it the only reason we do it is to try and escape a ticket, its not like you really mean it when you apologise profusely for speeding and try and make up some weak excuse. 9 times out of 10 you'll get a ticket anyway. Every time I get pulled (which is not often), I make sure I get my monies worth. I still laugh one time just south of Waiouru I had a cop so wound up arguing my point I though he was going to have a stroke - it got so good he threatened to arrest me and put me in the cells in Wanganui - I called his bluff at which point he completely lost the plot and started ranting and raving like a lunatic - years of pent up anger came flooding out it was quite a spectacle - well worth the price I paid to watch it. Better out than in I guess.
I may seem very anti-Police I'm not - it's a crap job and getting a smart arse like myself doesn't make it any easier, but it's my tax payer money that funds them and I want to see better value for my hard earned dollars than speed traps set up in locations not because they're accident black spots but because they offer a steady supply of victims. Anyone living in Auckland will know what I mean with the camera vans set up between the Takanini and Manukau exits.
I actually have a radar detector but never use it in the Triumph because I never speed – or should I say hardly ever…
Anyway rant over.
"No evidence of inspection"
Whatever the hell that’s supposed to mean I don't know. I mean if he had asked I'd have produced this check sheet from the 15th when the car when in for the service (only got the car back on Monday).
May as well scan the ticket while I'm at it.
I presume no evidence of inspection is lawyer speak for no warrant of fitness. But if you can't read the bloody expiry date, that's not my problem, that simply a case of a poorly designed WOF ticket. What is the point of writing an expiry date if its going to fade away before the warrant itself expires?
Anyway when he did reappear to hand the ticket over, I again asked why he wasn't doing something useful when there was no sign of any workers. He informed me they were still working around the corner - as expected when I got going no sign of any activity, so he perjured himself. If the missus hadn’t been in the car with me I’d have turned around and informed him of the fact.
I have no issue with getting the ticket I was speeding after all. I have an issue with these knobs setting up speed traps not for public safety but for revenue generation – in this particular case the workers had departed sometime before, and so should have he. I have an issue when it takes 6 hours for them to turn up when you report a burglary - and you know the only use they're going to be is to issue a Police report for insurance purposes.
But one thing I pride myself on is I never, ever, do the bend over and take it up the arse routine when they pull me over. Let’s face it the only reason we do it is to try and escape a ticket, its not like you really mean it when you apologise profusely for speeding and try and make up some weak excuse. 9 times out of 10 you'll get a ticket anyway. Every time I get pulled (which is not often), I make sure I get my monies worth. I still laugh one time just south of Waiouru I had a cop so wound up arguing my point I though he was going to have a stroke - it got so good he threatened to arrest me and put me in the cells in Wanganui - I called his bluff at which point he completely lost the plot and started ranting and raving like a lunatic - years of pent up anger came flooding out it was quite a spectacle - well worth the price I paid to watch it. Better out than in I guess.
I may seem very anti-Police I'm not - it's a crap job and getting a smart arse like myself doesn't make it any easier, but it's my tax payer money that funds them and I want to see better value for my hard earned dollars than speed traps set up in locations not because they're accident black spots but because they offer a steady supply of victims. Anyone living in Auckland will know what I mean with the camera vans set up between the Takanini and Manukau exits.
I actually have a radar detector but never use it in the Triumph because I never speed – or should I say hardly ever…
Anyway rant over.
I always loved (I think it was Billy Connelly's) rendition.
Say's to the officer...
How's the shirt, nice fit, comfortable?...
Pant's o.k, warm?....
How's the shoes? Not too tight, good fit?....
Plod asks dumbly..Huh...why's that?
Caus I BLOODY PAID FOR THEM!
I too think the coppa's should be there fighting Crime, true crims not people doing 111km's on a passing lane as someone I know received a ticket for. Our shop has been broken into several times. Talked to the cops...we are understaffed and it's not a priority. Few days later there's 3 cars of them pulling up Joe Average at 3pm for WOF and REG checks. REVENUE COLLECTORS!
Say's to the officer...
How's the shirt, nice fit, comfortable?...
Pant's o.k, warm?....
How's the shoes? Not too tight, good fit?....
Plod asks dumbly..Huh...why's that?
Caus I BLOODY PAID FOR THEM!
I too think the coppa's should be there fighting Crime, true crims not people doing 111km's on a passing lane as someone I know received a ticket for. Our shop has been broken into several times. Talked to the cops...we are understaffed and it's not a priority. Few days later there's 3 cars of them pulling up Joe Average at 3pm for WOF and REG checks. REVENUE COLLECTORS!
Edited by Kiwi Carguy on Tuesday 27th June 20:11
One think which may help if are going to fight the ticket:
For a cop to issue a ticket in a temporary speed zone (roadworks) he must have a copy of the traffic management plan, signed by the STMS (site traffic management supervisor) or traffic management officer from the local authority. you can also check that every sign, cone taper etc is where it should be according to the plan, and if its not the temporary speed limit is invalid and you can't be ticketed for breaking it. That the way it was explained to us at a traffic management course last year anyway.
Unfortunately it may be too late seeing as you've already left the site, I'm not sure if you can still write to them asking for the traffic management plan or not.
HTH
Why can't the b@stards do something useful with their time? :fight:
For a cop to issue a ticket in a temporary speed zone (roadworks) he must have a copy of the traffic management plan, signed by the STMS (site traffic management supervisor) or traffic management officer from the local authority. you can also check that every sign, cone taper etc is where it should be according to the plan, and if its not the temporary speed limit is invalid and you can't be ticketed for breaking it. That the way it was explained to us at a traffic management course last year anyway.
Unfortunately it may be too late seeing as you've already left the site, I'm not sure if you can still write to them asking for the traffic management plan or not.
HTH
Why can't the b@stards do something useful with their time? :fight:
I too will have a think about this before I reply....
... but just quickly, if you're EVER booked in a temporary zone, you should check that the signage is correct. When in a temporary zone, the driver must be notified of the temporary speed change by the correct signage (duh) but MUST also be reminded of this by further signage every 250m.
I got off a ticket in chch when I got done for 102km/h in a 70 temporary zone (in the TR... what is it with these wedges eh?). I explained to the officr that the last (and only) 70 sign I passed was behind me about 700+m back from the point where he said he'd got me on radar.
I argued the point with him but he stood firm and gave me a ticket. Long story short, I drove off, and doubled back. waited for plod to go back to radaring people and took pictures of him doing so and where he was doing it in relation to the temporary speed signs.
I sent a letter in with said photographic evidence, and a scale drawing of the layout of the road, showing where the roadworks were, where the signage was, where I was pulled over and where I was told I was picked up on the radar as well as a copy of the relevant bits of legislation.
Obviously I gave them enough information to make them think "blimey, that's not worth fighting" so I got let off.
More on the "failure to display" later.
... but just quickly, if you're EVER booked in a temporary zone, you should check that the signage is correct. When in a temporary zone, the driver must be notified of the temporary speed change by the correct signage (duh) but MUST also be reminded of this by further signage every 250m.
I got off a ticket in chch when I got done for 102km/h in a 70 temporary zone (in the TR... what is it with these wedges eh?). I explained to the officr that the last (and only) 70 sign I passed was behind me about 700+m back from the point where he said he'd got me on radar.
I argued the point with him but he stood firm and gave me a ticket. Long story short, I drove off, and doubled back. waited for plod to go back to radaring people and took pictures of him doing so and where he was doing it in relation to the temporary speed signs.
I sent a letter in with said photographic evidence, and a scale drawing of the layout of the road, showing where the roadworks were, where the signage was, where I was pulled over and where I was told I was picked up on the radar as well as a copy of the relevant bits of legislation.
Obviously I gave them enough information to make them think "blimey, that's not worth fighting" so I got let off.
More on the "failure to display" later.
Still going to contemplate this further, but here is a bit of my background . . .
1) I have twice had to dive out of the way of cars driving through cones, ignoring the lawful temporary traffic controls.
2) I've had to call an ambulance for, and go to hospital with, one of my staff who was not as lucky when a van clipped his elbow after skittling / squashing more than a dozen cones. Off work for 4 months and 15+ years later does still not have full use / strength in that arm.
3) Due to the ever increasing extremes of temporary traffic control that is now required, because people ignore it, the cost of building and maintaining infrastructure in the road reserve is often more than double the cost of actually doing the work. And despite what many may think of local government / central government agencies, we really do try to provide good value to ratepayers / taxpayers.
1) I have twice had to dive out of the way of cars driving through cones, ignoring the lawful temporary traffic controls.
2) I've had to call an ambulance for, and go to hospital with, one of my staff who was not as lucky when a van clipped his elbow after skittling / squashing more than a dozen cones. Off work for 4 months and 15+ years later does still not have full use / strength in that arm.
3) Due to the ever increasing extremes of temporary traffic control that is now required, because people ignore it, the cost of building and maintaining infrastructure in the road reserve is often more than double the cost of actually doing the work. And despite what many may think of local government / central government agencies, we really do try to provide good value to ratepayers / taxpayers.
I think Ben’s got a valid point and I think your coppa’s lying through his teeth or just not up on the play. With the road works side of things and to back that up I nearly fell to the same fate as you, but the cop knew his stuff and I got away with it. Females just flash their bits and we get off every time …Naaah just jokes mate!!! Anyway it happened to me around two yrs ago driving back from Taupo after a Lotus meet at the track and went through some “very minor” road works that were not in action. Was doing 70 odd in a 50km temporary advertised zone - my mistake! The coppa was down a side road; of course the radar didn’t pick him up till virtually he was beside me and he snapped me. Got off with a warning as he mentioned to me he was disgusted that the signs had been up all week and nobody working there, so technically he could not ping me. He had a good look around the car and naturally happy with asking me some petrol head questions about the car – Top Bloke
In saying that I got another ticket arrived in the mail just yesterday for speeding in a residential zone, snapped by the camera in a mufti bongo van grrrrr! Holding my head in shame.
Anyway if I were you, I would write a letter to them, get some basic NZ legislation off the net or ask say Ben’s help to back yourself up with official policies or procedures on roadwork’s and go from there? For now don’t pay it! Look forward to hearing how you get on.
…Naaah just jokes mate!!! Anyway it happened to me around two yrs ago driving back from Taupo after a Lotus meet at the track and went through some “very minor” road works that were not in action. Was doing 70 odd in a 50km temporary advertised zone - my mistake! The coppa was down a side road; of course the radar didn’t pick him up till virtually he was beside me and he snapped me. Got off with a warning as he mentioned to me he was disgusted that the signs had been up all week and nobody working there, so technically he could not ping me. He had a good look around the car and naturally happy with asking me some petrol head questions about the car – Top Bloke In saying that I got another ticket arrived in the mail just yesterday for speeding in a residential zone, snapped by the camera in a mufti bongo van grrrrr! Holding my head in shame.
Anyway if I were you, I would write a letter to them, get some basic NZ legislation off the net or ask say Ben’s help to back yourself up with official policies or procedures on roadwork’s and go from there? For now don’t pay it! Look forward to hearing how you get on.
GravelBen said:
For a cop to issue a ticket in a temporary speed zone (roadworks) he must have a copy of the traffic management plan, signed by the STMS (site traffic management supervisor) or traffic management officer from the local authority . . .
No he doesn't necessarily. The mere existence of the temporary speed control signs in approximately the right position creates a degree of presumptive validity. It can be held by the Courts that the driver, having seen the signs and other traffic control measures, has a burden to show how he determined, at the time of driving through the controls, that they were invalid and there was no lawful requirement to observe and comply with the controls. I don't want to be a complete prick about this but there are no automatic get-out-of-jail-free-cards on this kind of thing. It is not a slam dunk either way.
GravelBen said:
. . . That the way it was explained to us at a traffic management course last year anyway.
I've had that too and it is a precautionary approach taken by regulators, course operators 
and employers to encourage 
best practice and minimise their OSH risks.Kiwi XTR2 said:
GravelBen said:
. . . That the way it was explained to us at a traffic management course last year anyway.
I've had that too and it is a precautionary approach taken by regulators, course operators and employers to encourage best practice and minimise their OSH risks.ahh I see - I've only done the stage 1 TC course so far, but will be doing an STMS course next year as part of the degree so will hopefully find out a bit more about it all then. TC qual is ridiculously easy to get though, I know 12 year olds that could pass the course.
I almost got done by a scamera last week, parked up 400m off the end of a passing lane near Timaru. Red Mitsi Delica van, so if you're in south island and see one on the side of the road watch out. It also likes to sit at the base of the Kilmog hill north of Dunedin, snapping people who take a bit of a run-up at the bottom of the hill to avoid dangerously holding up traffic or taking forever to get past the trucks in the left lane.
Firstly I was speeding and got fined - I don't have a problem with that other than the points I raised.
Regarding the roadwork’s themselves. I don’t speed through road works where workers are present. In this case I had driven through them that day on my way to Tauranga and had observed the limit. I had seen the work being done - erection of a crash barrier. On my return it was dusk and the road works were deserted except for Mr. Plod who was having a field day. The problem with road works in many cases is that at the end a days work rather than removing the signage (obviously depending on the nature of the work), the signage is left up, since it saves time. A bit like the boy calling wolf. The public get tried of slowing down for non-existent work, so consequently ignore the temp signs. This can result in the type of incidents XTR2 described. It works both ways, the roading contractors have an obligation to take safety seriously and in many cases they do nothing more than the minimum required by the law and are all too happy to leave signage up when it should be removed – it’s not like they’re going to get a ticket or something….
In my particular circumstances I had just entered the road works and was coasting down – hence getting done for 93kmph not 100kmph.
While we’re on the subject… I have another issue, the ultimate object of ‘safety cameras’, is surely to reduce fatalities. The placement of speed traps, cameras etc must be dictated by the roading statistics which identify black spots. After all what is the point of placing an officer on a stretch of road that has never had an accident? What therefore is the point of putting a camera in a position where the first indication of you committing an offense is the arrival by post of a speeding ticket? Surely the object of the exercise is to prevent you from speeding to start with so you don’t become a fatality when you speed through that black spot. You haven’t saved someone’s life when the ticket in most cases doesn’t even accurately identify the black spot you drove through. Surely you are better of having a fixed camera placed and painted in such a way that is clearly visible. I guarantee nobody will speed through such an area.
But no our government has taken the opposite approach by attempting to wipe speeding of the map entirely since you’re never sure where a trap may be. Great for the coffers as well funnily enough… The public of course have reacted and the radar detector companies have made a fortune. So we now have a situation where people still speed thanks to their radar detectors and the road toll remains the same. If the first approach had been taken I’ll guarantee the road toll would have fallen. Unfortunately the government has placed revenue generation ahead of the cost of a life.
What can be done about it other than venting on an internet forum? Vote for me in a couple of years
Regarding the roadwork’s themselves. I don’t speed through road works where workers are present. In this case I had driven through them that day on my way to Tauranga and had observed the limit. I had seen the work being done - erection of a crash barrier. On my return it was dusk and the road works were deserted except for Mr. Plod who was having a field day. The problem with road works in many cases is that at the end a days work rather than removing the signage (obviously depending on the nature of the work), the signage is left up, since it saves time. A bit like the boy calling wolf. The public get tried of slowing down for non-existent work, so consequently ignore the temp signs. This can result in the type of incidents XTR2 described. It works both ways, the roading contractors have an obligation to take safety seriously and in many cases they do nothing more than the minimum required by the law and are all too happy to leave signage up when it should be removed – it’s not like they’re going to get a ticket or something….
In my particular circumstances I had just entered the road works and was coasting down – hence getting done for 93kmph not 100kmph.
While we’re on the subject… I have another issue, the ultimate object of ‘safety cameras’, is surely to reduce fatalities. The placement of speed traps, cameras etc must be dictated by the roading statistics which identify black spots. After all what is the point of placing an officer on a stretch of road that has never had an accident? What therefore is the point of putting a camera in a position where the first indication of you committing an offense is the arrival by post of a speeding ticket? Surely the object of the exercise is to prevent you from speeding to start with so you don’t become a fatality when you speed through that black spot. You haven’t saved someone’s life when the ticket in most cases doesn’t even accurately identify the black spot you drove through. Surely you are better of having a fixed camera placed and painted in such a way that is clearly visible. I guarantee nobody will speed through such an area.
But no our government has taken the opposite approach by attempting to wipe speeding of the map entirely since you’re never sure where a trap may be. Great for the coffers as well funnily enough… The public of course have reacted and the radar detector companies have made a fortune. So we now have a situation where people still speed thanks to their radar detectors and the road toll remains the same. If the first approach had been taken I’ll guarantee the road toll would have fallen. Unfortunately the government has placed revenue generation ahead of the cost of a life.
What can be done about it other than venting on an internet forum? Vote for me in a couple of years
Actually I appreciate the input. If there's some part of my argument I've got wrong I want to know about it.
Roadworks are a necessary evil and no one could argue with need for signage to protect workers and the public themselves. But if contractors can't be arsed to remove signs when not required they cease to serve their function. The onus is on the public to obey the signage, which implies a level of trust that the signage will be displayed where and when appropriate.
Roadworks are a necessary evil and no one could argue with need for signage to protect workers and the public themselves. But if contractors can't be arsed to remove signs when not required they cease to serve their function. The onus is on the public to obey the signage, which implies a level of trust that the signage will be displayed where and when appropriate.
While we are on the topic of correct radar use is it true that the operators manual says not to operate a radar in an area where metal rails or fences are positioned next to the road because you are likely to get a kind of bounce effect and hence a misreading?
Sorry to hear about your misfortune iwilson, I guess the message for all NZ PHers is to be more careful when you use the right pedal to cover some ground.
It could have been any of us though, just the luck of the draw.
Sorry to hear about your misfortune iwilson, I guess the message for all NZ PHers is to be more careful when you use the right pedal to cover some ground.
It could have been any of us though, just the luck of the draw.There is also another reason that they sometimes keep the 30kph zones even when not working on them, if they've just layed new chipseal it can take a few days to set and strengthen properly, and going faster over it causes more damage to it. Even worse is hard accelerating/braking on the new stuff though - thats when you end up with those nasty corrugated patches.
Ended up driving a Hyundai Getz at work today (cos one of the engineers blew up the van
), it made everything seem like a nasty corrugated patch! I tend to forget how well Subies soak up the bumps without bouncing around until I drive something crap like that. I think the whole car was made of plastic too. anyways, a bit off topic sorry.
Ended up driving a Hyundai Getz at work today (cos one of the engineers blew up the van
), it made everything seem like a nasty corrugated patch! I tend to forget how well Subies soak up the bumps without bouncing around until I drive something crap like that. I think the whole car was made of plastic too. anyways, a bit off topic sorry.Gassing Station | New Zealand | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff