Best Transverse V6 & GBox? Toyota/Nissan? Or...?
Discussion
Is anyone here willing to make a stab at suggesting a good transverse V6 engine/GBox?
I've got my sights set on another kit car to replace the Ultima for when we move home, but, even though the car has a mid mounted engine arrangement, it's too short for the normal longitudnal/lengthwise arrangement. So rather than sticking with a 4 pot, I thought I'd stick in a fwd transverse V6, say like out of a Toyota Camry...
Is there a 6 speed GBox version that anyone knows about? Otherwise it might have to be a Quaife dog box...
Cheers,
from a sunny UK,
Pete
I've got my sights set on another kit car to replace the Ultima for when we move home, but, even though the car has a mid mounted engine arrangement, it's too short for the normal longitudnal/lengthwise arrangement. So rather than sticking with a 4 pot, I thought I'd stick in a fwd transverse V6, say like out of a Toyota Camry...
Is there a 6 speed GBox version that anyone knows about? Otherwise it might have to be a Quaife dog box...
Cheers,
from a sunny UK,
Pete
I've heard of a few replica Stratos's using the Alfa 164 3.0 V6, which apparently makes 200+ bhp and a very nice sound. The Camry or Maxima V6 (Millen made a supercharged Maxima V6 I believe) might also be a good option though for availability, repair costs etc. Or possibly even a MIVEC Mitsi V6 out of an FTO?
another thought: is the Accord type R a V6 or 4pot? 3.0 Vtec could be nice...
another thought: is the Accord type R a V6 or 4pot? 3.0 Vtec could be nice...
Edited by GravelBen on Tuesday 6th June 11:43
GravelBen said:
I've heard of a few replica Stratos's using the Alfa 164 3.0 V6, which apparently makes 200+ bhp and a very nice sound. The Camry or Maxima V6 (Millen made a supercharged Maxima V6 I believe) might also be a good option though for availability, repair costs etc. Or possibly even a MIVEC Mitsi V6 out of an FTO?
another thought: is the Accord type R a V6 or 4pot? 3.0 Vtec could be nice...
another thought: is the Accord type R a V6 or 4pot? 3.0 Vtec could be nice...
Edited by GravelBen on Tuesday 6th June 11:43
Do you know what kind of blower he's using? i.e, Roots/Eaton, Vortech or a Whipple twin screw...
As I'd prefer the wide torque curve of a blower over more just at the top end or the range, then again, depends on the GBox, as the turbo porker box I have definately is not the best suited to a SBC, my gear changes are usually 2-4-6 !!!
Cheers,
Pete
I've no idea sorry, I just remembered it from a car mag quite a few years ago ( I think it was a late 90's maxima, and they had it putting out something like 320 easy reliable bhp.)
By Millen I mean Rod Millen motorsport, sorry if I didn't make that clear, you should have heard of them?
I'd check up for you, but I'm afraid my stash of old mags is at my parents place a couple of hours away, and I'm not likely to be up visiting them in the next few weeks.
By Millen I mean Rod Millen motorsport, sorry if I didn't make that clear, you should have heard of them?
I'd check up for you, but I'm afraid my stash of old mags is at my parents place a couple of hours away, and I'm not likely to be up visiting them in the next few weeks.
and get some 
or I'll 
your mum ! ! 
>Millen
I just looked them up, couldn't find anything about blowers, mostly just Turbos, and the Camry they have the parts for is the MZ series of Alloy engines...
Depending on the GBox I use, and available gears ratios, I might just use Turbos at the end of the day...
Of course, there are probably blower kits for the GM/Ford V6 Units, so I'd just need the bellhousing adapter as well...
I guess, I want to try and keep a similar power ratio to what I run now, which shouldn't be too hard as the car only weighs 700Kg opposed to the Ult's 1000 or so Kg...
I just looked them up, couldn't find anything about blowers, mostly just Turbos, and the Camry they have the parts for is the MZ series of Alloy engines...
Depending on the GBox I use, and available gears ratios, I might just use Turbos at the end of the day...
Of course, there are probably blower kits for the GM/Ford V6 Units, so I'd just need the bellhousing adapter as well...
I guess, I want to try and keep a similar power ratio to what I run now, which shouldn't be too hard as the car only weighs 700Kg opposed to the Ult's 1000 or so Kg...
re: Millen
wrong Millen
you'd be wanting Steve, www.stillen.com
Lionel Rogers runs one of his superchargers on his Navman 350Z Targa car
wrong Millen
you'd be wanting Steve, www.stillen.com Lionel Rogers runs one of his superchargers on his Navman 350Z Targa car
GravelBen said:
... Noble ... They're a transverse twin-turbo V6 and go pretty well 
I suspect the Noble still runs the engine in the longitudnal direction, which would make the whole thing too long, however if the engine is mounted transverse, and thus the gearbox is as well, then it might be possible to squeeze it in. I think they use the 3.0 L Ford Duratec...
I've been looking at the Hewland or Xtrac boxes, pricy, but nice, though Dog gears only...
I think if I can get the Engine/GBox out of a Camry to fit, then I will, as GBox's are disposable items anyway...
I'll post more details about the car, once I've seen it in the 'GRP' so to speak, as it's not currently in production, so it may take some fast talking to get my hands on it...
renn68 said:
Hmmm, that looks like a nice combo, they're using the Autorotor Lysome blower from Sweden.
At least the Kit is complete, i.e. it has an intercooler as well, not bad for about 5-6US, so 8-9NZ.
Pity they don't show the torque graphs, but that's typical of these US sites, either that or they make the figures up to suit...
looks transverse to me:
I think the new M15 is longitudinal though.
Its a 3.0 duratech (or 2.5 in the earlier cars), but with some cosworth bits and a couple of decent sized turbos. I suspect finding one at a non-ridiculous price may be tricky, but they're good for 425bhp in the M400, which would propel a 700kg car quite rapidly if the chassis is up to it.
I have no idea at all what sort of budget you have, but using a cheaper motor such as Nissan or Toyota V6 would leave more $$ free for suspension/brake goodies etc. I think Nissan motors will have more readily available tuning parts, though maybe not for the V6's to the same degree as RB-series straight-6's or SR20 4cyl motors.
I think the new M15 is longitudinal though.
Its a 3.0 duratech (or 2.5 in the earlier cars), but with some cosworth bits and a couple of decent sized turbos. I suspect finding one at a non-ridiculous price may be tricky, but they're good for 425bhp in the M400, which would propel a 700kg car quite rapidly if the chassis is up to it.
I have no idea at all what sort of budget you have, but using a cheaper motor such as Nissan or Toyota V6 would leave more $$ free for suspension/brake goodies etc. I think Nissan motors will have more readily available tuning parts, though maybe not for the V6's to the same degree as RB-series straight-6's or SR20 4cyl motors.
Edited by GravelBen on Wednesday 7th June 14:05
Ben, you're right, it is transverse in the Noble.
It seems to be the 3.0L engine/6 speed gbox from the top spec Mondeos, which don't make it to NZ as usual.
However I just spoke to the factory that source and prep the base engine and gear box for Noble, and they can supply me a brand new 3.0 Duratec and GBox for quite reasonable money, though I'd have to fit an engine management unit on it, as the Ford unit can't handle having most of it's sensors cut off...
The Nissan VQ350DE as used in the 350Z is tempting however, and may be easier to get parts for in NZ, and will probably be more popular as a Tuners car, however I'd need to find a gear box to suit it, but that could possibly be done by using the Ford unit...
It seems to be the 3.0L engine/6 speed gbox from the top spec Mondeos, which don't make it to NZ as usual.
However I just spoke to the factory that source and prep the base engine and gear box for Noble, and they can supply me a brand new 3.0 Duratec and GBox for quite reasonable money, though I'd have to fit an engine management unit on it, as the Ford unit can't handle having most of it's sensors cut off...
The Nissan VQ350DE as used in the 350Z is tempting however, and may be easier to get parts for in NZ, and will probably be more popular as a Tuners car, however I'd need to find a gear box to suit it, but that could possibly be done by using the Ford unit...
Is a 4-pot still an option? The 3SGTE came transverse-mounted in the MR2 and will turn 400HP without requiring silly money to be spent on it. 4G63 out of an Evo has a 6-speed box and transverse mounts, and turns 300HP standard.
V6-wise, you could look to the 2.5V6 twin turbo out of a Galant VR4 although they are very wide- most turbo V6s are. Turbo-ing or Supercharging an engine that wasn't already adds up to big pain in the ass, especially in a tight engine bay. Would the Lexus V8 fit longitudinally?
V6-wise, you could look to the 2.5V6 twin turbo out of a Galant VR4 although they are very wide- most turbo V6s are. Turbo-ing or Supercharging an engine that wasn't already adds up to big pain in the ass, especially in a tight engine bay. Would the Lexus V8 fit longitudinally?
>4-pot
Hmmm, only as last resort, I'm very used to the flat and wide torque curve from my V8 now, sometimes there is no 'replacement for displacement', and a Turbo 4 would have lag and a peaky torque curve that I'd rather do without.
I'm not saying you can't get the power out of a 4, but I'd rather have it at 1500/2000rpm for cruising...
>1uzfe
Hard to say, but if they are normally running a 4 pot, then just squeeze a V6 in, it could be hard to get the Toyota in, even with it's narrower cam arrangement, still it would be a nice cheap alternative to a brand new Dura/Alloy-tec V6.
The V6 is a good compromise, and once can easily squeeze 450hp/450ft out of the 3.0 Duratec as they do in the top of the line Noble, and as the car will be ~250kg lighter than my Ult, and it will maintain some bottem end torque of it's own if I want to turbo it, or better yet, blower it.
Hmmm, only as last resort, I'm very used to the flat and wide torque curve from my V8 now, sometimes there is no 'replacement for displacement', and a Turbo 4 would have lag and a peaky torque curve that I'd rather do without.
I'm not saying you can't get the power out of a 4, but I'd rather have it at 1500/2000rpm for cruising...
>1uzfe
Hard to say, but if they are normally running a 4 pot, then just squeeze a V6 in, it could be hard to get the Toyota in, even with it's narrower cam arrangement, still it would be a nice cheap alternative to a brand new Dura/Alloy-tec V6.
The V6 is a good compromise, and once can easily squeeze 450hp/450ft out of the 3.0 Duratec as they do in the top of the line Noble, and as the car will be ~250kg lighter than my Ult, and it will maintain some bottem end torque of it's own if I want to turbo it, or better yet, blower it.
Edited by peterpsg on Thursday 8th June 11:37
Since I've obviously got everyone's (those who have replied anyway!) curiosity up...
This is what I had in mind, here's a link to the very minimal website www.lescc.com/, and I'll be off to see one in a few weeks...
There's a review under kit cars as well if you hunt for it, but with an older style nose, etc...
It's a bit smaller than the Ult, more along the lines of a Lotus Elise for size, and hopefully handling...
Of course, one could just hack a V6 into an Elise instead...
This is what I had in mind, here's a link to the very minimal website www.lescc.com/, and I'll be off to see one in a few weeks...
There's a review under kit cars as well if you hunt for it, but with an older style nose, etc...
It's a bit smaller than the Ult, more along the lines of a Lotus Elise for size, and hopefully handling...
Of course, one could just hack a V6 into an Elise instead...
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