Taming an old Ford

[bootedbanger]

OK with fuel prices soaring in NZ I'm almost at the stage of parking up my 47 Jailbar V8 but before I do I wondered if anyone has thoughts on how to improve fuel consumption? I want to keep the original flathead motor so changing that is not an option. But maybe a modification or 4 could improve things. Its getting a bit tired so will be doing it up anyway hence its a good time to make any improvements which could help lower fuel consumption. IE it GUZZLES it right now, and I would rather it not be so greedy with my hard earned money. Not worried if its slower as a result but better economy would allow me to keep it earning its keep.

[Kiwi XTR2]

Welcome aboard.

What do you actually use if for ?

I assume that it's like the rod from Street-Legal.

[bootedbanger]

Its in every day use. And its just like the one in street legal, but green instead of black. Body in good condition. Definitely intend to keep it. But may need to park it up for some of the time and get a small car for a run-about.

[Esprit]

Obviously anything you can do to reduce weight is all good... also running narrower tyres makes a hell of a difference... especially if you rack up the miles in it.

I'd have a look at possibly fuel-injecting it... even though it's an old flathead, it doesn't rule out fuel injection or possibly electronic ignition (on its own). All would help in some small way to help it run, but other than the basics, the cost is likely to have a looong payback in terms of economy gains.

[roger A]

Would you consider lpg?

[Kiwi XTR2]

roger A said:

Would you consider lpg?

These are good suggestions but if you want to keep the Jailbar in "original" condition then I think your best bet is to keep it in the garage during the week (buy a 5-yr old Integra) and go for lovely drives in the countryside on the weekends.

The delayed gratification will make it all that more special . . .

[Kiwi XTR2]

I think this is a '44 ?

[speedy_thrills]

bootedbanger said:

OK with fuel prices soaring in NZ I'm almost at the stage of parking up my 47 Jailbar V8 but before I do I wondered if anyone has thoughts on how to improve fuel consumption?

Hello bootedbanger, LPG sounds like a good idea.

I also put forward the idea of water injection or ultrasonic mist generator.

Here is a link: www.volvoclub.org.uk/aquamist.shtml

The science behind it seems convincing, it recovers thermal energy that would otherwise be lost through the cooling system and exhaust.

Edit: Of course if you could find a cheap fuel (an Alcohol fuel probably) that would work as well. I’m fairly sure as long as you have your car taxed as an “alternative fuel” vehicle it is legal (i.e. you pay tax per km on your car in the same way you do if you own a diesel car/truck here).

Also have you considered a throttle body EFI system if you are running carbs?

Beautiful vehicle you have there by the way , Is it completely original?.


>> Edited by speedy_thrills on Thursday 3rd November 06:31

[bootedbanger]

Hmm, thanks for suggestions so far. I will look into each one and see what merits they may offer. Reluctant to make too much in the way of visible changes but I guess I may have no option. Then again I like the idea of parking it up during the week and using on the weekends only. Now if only I could come up with a cheaper fuel. ha ha. I have heard of the water idea and am intrigued by it. Would have thought that water was the last thing to put through a motor, flathead or otherwise. I have to pull the heads off to do a valve job on it so that in itself will help but I was wondering if there is anything I can do whilst I'm in there to make a difference to fuel consumption.

Just as a joke, a mate told me to start raising bees so I could then fill her up with BP. <g> if only it were that simple.

Any thoughts on alcohol as an additive to current fuel? I do run an upper cylinder lubricant into it to help preserve the valves now that lead is out.

[speedy_thrills]

bootedbanger said:

Reluctant to make too much in the way of visible changes but I guess I may have no option.

I can understand that, though you may be able to hide a lot of it if you are careful so that it looks completely original.

bootedbanger said:

Would have thought that water was the last thing to put through a motor, flathead or otherwise.

It is a strange concept but has been used since world war 2 (They used a mixture of approximatly 75% water to 25% methanol IRRC), it’s really been re-discovered thanks to innovation in motorsports.

bootedbanger said:

I have to pull the heads off to do a valve job on it so that in itself will help but I was wondering if there is anything I can do whilst I'm in there to make a difference to fuel consumption.

Make sure its all clean and free of carbon deposits really.

I think you could polish the intake tract/exhaust and valves to induce laminar airflow, however take advice from some one more expert than myself before attempting this. There is an optimum value of roughness and I’m not even sure what it is.

bootedbanger said:

Any thoughts on alcohol as an additive to current fuel? I do run an upper cylinder lubricant into it to help preserve the valves now that lead is out.

Probably not a good idea, alcohol fuels need special fuel lines and tanks because they chemically etch most conventional plastics.

This is why on many cars that use methanol (Or water and methanol) have separate fueling systems.

[bootedbanger]

All my fuel lines are copper except where there's the odd flexible bit needed and those are the wire mesh covered type. The tank is the original but has been dismantled and steam cleaned about 4 years ago.
I'm getting some great information here thanks people.
I have thought about the port polishing thing and will look into that one more for sure.
Will be looking into reducing weight too, maybe I could go on a diet. lol.
Take a hacksaw to the motor?
I like the LPG idea, but are there any special precautions I need to take if I go that way?
I know the basics of maintennance on my motor, but will need professional help for things like LPG and port polishing I guess.
Are there any internet sites I can go to to get more intimate knowledge re LPG and port polishing etc?

[jamieheasman]

If you don't want to go LPG (and remember it's not going to be cheap engineering a solution that appears stock) I'd just go for a good quality rebuild aimed at using 91 pump gas. Your motor will probably have been designed around something stronger in mind with a nice dose of lead. Get someone who really knows their cylinder heads to produce something with economy in mind not just power then couple it with a custom cam grind. To top it off lighten and balance the bottom end and get someone who knows their stuff to rejet the carb/s and recurve your dizzy.

You could go to injection and mapped ignition but that's going to mean more mods and is really only going to be worth it if you are planning future upgrades.

Are you using a manual tranny or auto? Obviously a decent manual will be cheaper to run but you may want to look at your overall gearing once the engine is rebuilt.

Having said all this they're still a heavy old beast with all the aerodynamics of a small detached house so you're never going to win any economy rallies!

Remember you are not losing loads in depreciation, your insurance is a lot cheaper, your road licence is cheaper and with a rebuild you won't even be wasting money on upper cylinder lube! Spread those cost reductions over a year and you'd be hard pushed to beat it with a Toyota Prius!

[bootedbanger]

Thanks. I've already pulled the heads and the rest of the motor is coming apart nicely.

There were 3 burnt valves so that will NOT have been helping at all.
So its a valve job and work on the camshaft. For starters that's for sure.

I will take your advice re cam and carby. Will need to look into dizzy mods, as I don't know anyone with this expertise, but I guess some of my mates will know. Especially the guy working on my carby for me.

I remember way back my dad jokingly saying that these old flatheads will run on anything from Alcohol to Zebra piss, --- what a shame he was wrong on that last one. I could just imaging going to Orana Park and asking for a tankful of Zebra piss. Imagine the look on their faces. I gave up on the hacksaw idea, can't find a big enough one to cut the motor in half. ha ha.

I don't think I'll be going with LPG after all, have talked it over with a few people now and you're right it would cost more to keep it low key so the motor looks as original as possible.

Thanks for input people will be sure to let you know in a future posting how it all goes.