Carpooling part of oil crisis plan
Discussion
[quote=NZ Herald]Oil hits $US65 a barrel
More petrol price shocks loom
Aug 16, 2005
[b]Reducing speed limits[/b], oil rationing and carpooling could help ease the pressure in the event of an oil supply crisis, a government report shows.
The Ministry of Economic Development report recommends that in the event of an oil shortage, the government should first encourage voluntary petrol reduction such as car pooling, reducing the number of car trips and more use of public transport.
[b]Government should also be able to reduce the speed limit on the open road to 80kph, which would reduce fuel demand.[/b]
To do this, the report says legislation would have to be introduced now which could be implemented if an emergency arises.
The suggestions come after the International Energy Agency told governments to prepare an emergency plan to save oil in a hurry in case of a temporary oil shortage.
On August 12, the crude oil price surged to a new record of $US67.10 a barrel - the highest since trading began in 1983. Prices are up 42% from a year ago. In New Zealand, petrol rose to a record $1.44 a litre.
Global fuel consumption this year will rise 2%, or 1.6 million barrels a day. A New York-based broker is speculating the price could go as high as $70 a barrel.[/quote]Fantastic :rolleyes:
More petrol price shocks loom
Aug 16, 2005
[b]Reducing speed limits[/b], oil rationing and carpooling could help ease the pressure in the event of an oil supply crisis, a government report shows.
The Ministry of Economic Development report recommends that in the event of an oil shortage, the government should first encourage voluntary petrol reduction such as car pooling, reducing the number of car trips and more use of public transport.
[b]Government should also be able to reduce the speed limit on the open road to 80kph, which would reduce fuel demand.[/b]
To do this, the report says legislation would have to be introduced now which could be implemented if an emergency arises.
The suggestions come after the International Energy Agency told governments to prepare an emergency plan to save oil in a hurry in case of a temporary oil shortage.
On August 12, the crude oil price surged to a new record of $US67.10 a barrel - the highest since trading began in 1983. Prices are up 42% from a year ago. In New Zealand, petrol rose to a record $1.44 a litre.
Global fuel consumption this year will rise 2%, or 1.6 million barrels a day. A New York-based broker is speculating the price could go as high as $70 a barrel.[/quote]Fantastic :rolleyes:
Never mind the fact that while your consumption will go down 20% (proportional to wind resistance which I'm pretty sure is proportional to velocity) you will be out for 20% longer time rendering any gains meaningless.
I think that they should be focussing on providing more efficient alternatives to cars, like electric trains, Natural Gas fuelled buses, that kind of thing. You cant kick people out of cars and not give them an alternative. There is an attitude in govt that people WON'T change- I think its more that people CAN'T change. If you could get people from East Auckand, Henderson, or Albany to Downtown by rail in 20 minutes, EVERYONE would use it because it benefits them, it would be faster than driving, easier than driving, and probably comparable or cheaper in price. But no, apparently its better to put our head in the sand and hope the problem will just magically go away, or that the pitiful excuse for a public transport network in this country will just magically handle extra patrons with its entirely inadequate budget.
If I were king of the world...
I think that they should be focussing on providing more efficient alternatives to cars, like electric trains, Natural Gas fuelled buses, that kind of thing. You cant kick people out of cars and not give them an alternative. There is an attitude in govt that people WON'T change- I think its more that people CAN'T change. If you could get people from East Auckand, Henderson, or Albany to Downtown by rail in 20 minutes, EVERYONE would use it because it benefits them, it would be faster than driving, easier than driving, and probably comparable or cheaper in price. But no, apparently its better to put our head in the sand and hope the problem will just magically go away, or that the pitiful excuse for a public transport network in this country will just magically handle extra patrons with its entirely inadequate budget.
If I were king of the world...
htsd said:No it’s a square of your velocity, every time you double your speed you triple your fuel consumption. This only holds true in aerodynamics, if you are traveling under sort of 20 km/h you are wasting petrol simply because it takes so much fuel to keep the engine ticking over. But it’s still negligent and stupid! It completely ignores the fact that people will waste thousands of hours a year droning along at 80 km/h that could be spent productively earning money and hence be able to afford fuel. Even at current rates I’m not put off driving and it would take so much more than unaffordable fuel. Remember that here in New Zealand you can run your vehicle on whatever you choose to legally, you just have to buy traveling distance in the same way as diesel vehicles do (The only tax charged on fuel is if you buy it and its charged at 17.5% or whatever VAT is – and if you make it yourself you only need to pay tax on the ingredients). You can run a steam car if you please!
Never mind the fact that while your consumption will go down 20% (proportional to wind resistance which I'm pretty sure is proportional to velocity) you will be out for 20% longer time rendering any gains meaningless.
As for the government schemes at car sharing and other methods of saving fuel: “Read my [typing] - You can have my [keys] but you will have to pry them from my cold dead hand!”.
speedy_thrills said:
No it’s a square of your velocity, every time you double your speed you triple your fuel consumption. This only holds true in aerodynamics, . . .
You're right it's a squared relationship.
Probably best to refer to drag being proportional to the square of the velocity.
BUT did you really mean that "double" squared = "triple"
Kiwi XTR2 said:
speedy_thrills said:
No it’s a square of your velocity, every time you double your speed you triple your fuel consumption. This only holds true in aerodynamics, . . .
You're right it's a squared relationship.
Probably best to refer to drag being proportional to the square of the velocity.
That sounds better! Basically its non-linear so we are doomed to drive slowly thanks to polititians.
Edit: And the laws of physics.
Kiwi XTR2 said:
BUT did you really mean that "double" squared = "triple"
I hope not or we are all doomed.
>> Edited by speedy_thrills on Tuesday 16th August 09:43
I think reducing the speed limit to 80ks would reduce fuel consumption markedly...
As within about 2 months 1/3 of all drivers will have lost their licences, plus think of the additional speed camera revenue that could be put into giving students free money.
Rationing petrol wont work either. They mentioned allocating it to everyone on the electral roll. Does that mean everyone without cars is suddenly rich as they can sell their allocation. Or if they allocated it per car does that mean I deserve twice as much as my flatmate as I have two cars?
Road user charges on petrol are a bad idea. The price should be pushed up by the fuel consumption not the ks traveled. By pushing fuel up it hurts those the most who use the most eg v8s/rotaries/4wds etc so they should be the most inclined to do something about it. Whereas putting charges on ks traveled will penalise everyone even those who drive suzuki altos or whatever.
I think the only option is supply and demand. At 1.50 a litre its something im concerned about but dont affect my behaviour, if it was $15 I would think differently. At somepoint every person will decide theyd rather use an alternative mode of transport. Though saying that there needs to be alternatives as currently there isnt many
As within about 2 months 1/3 of all drivers will have lost their licences, plus think of the additional speed camera revenue that could be put into giving students free money.
Rationing petrol wont work either. They mentioned allocating it to everyone on the electral roll. Does that mean everyone without cars is suddenly rich as they can sell their allocation. Or if they allocated it per car does that mean I deserve twice as much as my flatmate as I have two cars?
Road user charges on petrol are a bad idea. The price should be pushed up by the fuel consumption not the ks traveled. By pushing fuel up it hurts those the most who use the most eg v8s/rotaries/4wds etc so they should be the most inclined to do something about it. Whereas putting charges on ks traveled will penalise everyone even those who drive suzuki altos or whatever.
I think the only option is supply and demand. At 1.50 a litre its something im concerned about but dont affect my behaviour, if it was $15 I would think differently. At somepoint every person will decide theyd rather use an alternative mode of transport. Though saying that there needs to be alternatives as currently there isnt many
Yep... supply and demand will sort it out... up until now people haven't changed their habits at all... only in the last few weeks has news come out that new car buyers are STARTING to change their behaviour as is the general public in their driving habits.... it'll be $1.70 per litre by christmas and at that level I think we'll start to see people really cut back on their fuel usage... I'd be happy paying up to about $2.50 a litre personally before I'd change my driving habits... I have a 1.5L stationwagon and a 1.8L toy car for the weekends.... I get better gas mileage at an AVERAGE speed of 138km/h around pukekohe than most SUVs get at 100km/h cruising on the highway!
Just let market forces sort it out..... if they lower the speed limit for this there'll be a public uproar on their hands... everyone will ignore it and the police will find themselves suffering the brunt of a civil revolt.
Just let market forces sort it out..... if they lower the speed limit for this there'll be a public uproar on their hands... everyone will ignore it and the police will find themselves suffering the brunt of a civil revolt.
Kiwi XTR2 said:
. . . I get better gas mileage at an AVERAGE speed of 138km/h around pukekohe than most SUVs get at 100km/h cruising on the highway! . . .
Just imagine what kind of economy you could get at 138 km/h on the open-road! I think you have a responsibility to save the planet.
Was paying $1.70+ in Rarotonga, mind you we were filling a poxy little 1.3L Daihatsu Sirion... LOL. You put $10.00 in and you get another 1/2 tank of gas
Think I would probably pay up to $5 before we down size the cars. And yes I would look at 1.3L someone if I really had to - just to get to work. Or chuck in the Lab coat and microscope for a suit, fake smile and Co car..would be the way to go??Agreed Kylie... I've already done the sums ans petrol would have to be $2.50 a litre before I changed myhabits at all... I'm happily prepared to pay up to that if I HAVE to... after thaqt I'd START cutting back... Mind you I'd get pretty annoyed if my salary didn't increase to cover the costs
Well over here in the UK, I saw ~£0.97 for regular unleaded the other day... so at a rough exchange rate of say 2.6, that's ~$2.50 NZ !!!
Then again, do we really need 2+ litre turbo's and 3-5 litre daily drivers just to get to work???
When I was a kid, 1.0 litre mini's and the like were the norm...
Then again, do we really need 2+ litre turbo's and 3-5 litre daily drivers just to get to work???
When I was a kid, 1.0 litre mini's and the like were the norm...
peterpsg said:
Well over here in the UK, I saw ~£0.97 for regular unleaded the other day... so at a rough exchange rate of say 2.6, that's ~$2.50 NZ !!!
Then again, do we really need 2+ litre turbo's and 3-5 litre daily drivers just to get to work???
When I was a kid, 1.0 litre mini's and the like were the norm...
Like I said above.... I'd happily pay UP to $250 for fuel if I HAD to.... motoring here has been too cheap for far too long... the very fact that half of the cars in even the poorere areas of town are SUVs and WRXs etc should tell you that.... these people shan't be able to afford to run these things forever.
My fleet is so frugal I can stand the prices going a bit higher.
now that WOULD be a very classy daily ride....about that adjustable ride height though 
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