Bugger

Author
Discussion

Richard Deakin

Original Poster:

256 posts

256 months

Sunday 8th August 2004
quotequote all
Just got home to find a letter from LTSA telling me they are revoking my rego for the Chimp as the documentation only covers the steering wheel impact standard and not the neccesary frontal impact. Apparantly a nice LTSA chappie will be contacting me to come and personally remove the plates and WOF sticker!

Right - need to buy a trailer and a list of all the track days in the country...


Roger A

1,267 posts

247 months

Sunday 8th August 2004
quotequote all
Your reaction is admirably phlegmatic. I should imagine there will be some fruity expletives being used on your behalf. How come they can give you registration and WOF and then change their minds?
Is this likely to affect other Chimaera owners in this country?

simonsparrow

1,524 posts

269 months

Sunday 8th August 2004
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Very sorry to hear that, I'd be livid it something like that happened.

Every time I hear about something like this, I wonder about my plans to bring the Cerbera back. Just seems unfair that enthusiasts wanting to enjoy their cars causes such a hassle.

Is there any chance you can keep your car on the road?

Esprit

6,370 posts

290 months

Sunday 8th August 2004
quotequote all
Richard..... that FULLY sicks arse! I'd be hiding the TVR and take a "what chim" attitude when they turn up..... what galls me about it is that there's a whole bunch (maybe 5-10) Chims already registered in NZ, perfectly legally and they will continue to be.... what makes yours any less registerable?..... same old story they tried to pull with the MG RV8 I seem to recall..... that was the test-case that set the precedent for all this guff.... sometimes I just want to get all Bruce Willis on the LTSA..... it just seems that "common sense" is not a phrase that falls within their lexicon.... I simply odn't know how some of these boyracer cars are road legal and road registered while you and I can't even import what is tantamount to an extremely safely engineered vehicle.....
I fear that TVR will NEVER be sold in NZ as I've heard a rumour that although they may be relaxing standards on LVVA regulations, I think they want it such that by 2009 that every car (new or used) will NEED to have ABS and Airbags fitted and fully functional to be able to be registered for use on the roads..... now I for one would rather that TVR stick by its guns and keep producing raw cars for the experienced driver...... it's odubtful that we'll ever see them as a brand in New Zealand.... not until they fall into the "classic" category as specified by the LTSA

kylie

4,391 posts

264 months

Sunday 8th August 2004
quotequote all
Richard Deakin said:
Just got home to find a letter from LTSA telling me they are revoking my rego for the Chimp as the documentation only covers the steering wheel impact standard and not the neccesary frontal impact. Apparantly a nice LTSA chappie will be contacting me to come and personally remove the plates and WOF sticker!

Right - need to buy a trailer and a list of all the track days in the country...



That is a shocker and am sorry to hear that. I would have the car hidden and locked up. Just don't be there when he shows. Is there any chance of disputing it in court esp if there are other TVR's registered etc..?

Richard Deakin

Original Poster:

256 posts

256 months

Monday 9th August 2004
quotequote all
Hiya

Thanks for the supporting comments. Yes, I'm gutted, but hiding the car is not an option as driving without rego is just not sensible. Not only would I be uninsured, but I would also risk proscecution if I were to injure someone as ACC would not apply. Apart from this, it would probably not be good for all TVR owners if we start playing silly buggers with the LTSA. You can only change the rules by playing within them.

It is especially frustrating as the car is currently in the garage having a high level stop light fitted to ensure it complies to road safety rules (the import certifier didn't pull me up on this either but I figured I really should have one.)

I am taking legal advice.

Will let you know how it goes.

Rich

Esprit

6,370 posts

290 months

Monday 9th August 2004
quotequote all
Good luck Rich, you have my best wishes and prayers with you.... if you find a way then maybe more of us will have a glimmer of hope in getting the LTSA to see sense where Tivvers are concerned....... all the best.... perhaps this thread can be dedicated to your struggle for justice.... I'll certainly be following with some interest

kylie

4,391 posts

264 months

Monday 9th August 2004
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[redacted]

tvr_nz

78 posts

255 months

Monday 9th August 2004
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That's incredible Richard
As you advise - you are taking legal action - go for it. It's difficult to understand how they can change something that they have already granted - unless there is something wrong with your paperwork. I'm 100% that you must fight & not try to hide - hit them hard between the eyes!
I think yours is a 97 isn't it? Mine is a 96 - and has been in NZ for a long time
Good luck - & let us know what is happening

jamieheasman

823 posts

291 months

Tuesday 10th August 2004
quotequote all
C*ck suckers!

I read an article in a newspaper the other day that states that the regs in Europe are going to change to the point where NO cars will be sold unless they have not only the frontal impact regs but also the pedestrian friendly crumple zones. The same article implied TVR were already aware of this and ready to act. Watch this space I guess, but I would wager that TVR will be in a position to ship worldwide within 2 years or they'll be gone for good.

I hope you take the LTSA to the cleaners Richard - it's about time they realised that they are there to serve the general public and not to feed their own powertrips. If we want to drive down the road in a cardboard box with a jet engine on the back it should be up to us not some suit in a dark little office with no blood in his veins.

Start sending emails and letters off to the car mags and newspapers and let's get some publicity going. After all it's not just TVRs that are at stake here.

If you end up having to get rid of the Chimaera it may be worth selling in Aussie rather than shipping elsewhere.

Esprit

6,370 posts

290 months

Tuesday 10th August 2004
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Wiser words were never spoken Jamie.

simonsparrow

1,524 posts

269 months

Thursday 12th August 2004
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Hopefully there can be some way round this. What about the motorsport exemption that the LTSA are meant to be working on?

As long as the car has full cage, seats, harnesses and is used in 2 events a year, you can apply for frontal impact exemption.

If you were looking at track days anyway......

When I bring the Cerbera back, I'll race it, so I'm interested in this option.

The tech guys I spoke to at LTSA were helpful and sympathetic, I wouldn't give up hope just yet

>> Edited by simonsparrow on Thursday 12th August 19:54

tvr_nz

78 posts

255 months

Thursday 12th August 2004
quotequote all
Interesting comments Simon
What are the rules on this - and where can I get the official version.
I'm certainly interested for myself - but the cage, harness etc rules out a normal vehicle

If this is the only chance of exemption - I suspect it will not help Richard


Any update Richard?

simonsparrow

1,524 posts

269 months

Monday 16th August 2004
quotequote all
Best thing to do would be to contact the LTSA in Wellington. Thats all I did, and as I say they were sympathetic......at the time (last november) they said the exemtion legislation was about a year away.

mayflower

9 posts

244 months

Sunday 22nd August 2004
quotequote all
Esprit said:
Richard..... that FULLY sicks arse! I'd be hiding the TVR and take a "what chim" attitude when they turn up..... what galls me about it is that there's a whole bunch (maybe 5-10) Chims already registered in NZ, perfectly legally and they will continue to be.... what makes yours any less registerable?..... same old story they tried to pull with the MG RV8 I seem to recall..... that was the test-case that set the precedent for all this guff.... sometimes I just want to get all Bruce Willis on the LTSA..... it just seems that "common sense" is not a phrase that falls within their lexicon.... I simply odn't know how some of these boyracer cars are road legal and road registered while you and I can't even import what is tantamount to an extremely safely engineered vehicle.....
I fear that TVR will NEVER be sold in NZ as I've heard a rumour that although they may be relaxing standards on LVVA regulations, I think they want it such that by 2009 that every car (new or used) will NEED to have ABS and Airbags fitted and fully functional to be able to be registered for use on the roads..... now I for one would rather that TVR stick by its guns and keep producing raw cars for the experienced driver...... it's odubtful that we'll ever see them as a brand in New Zealand.... not until they fall into the "classic" category as specified by the LTSA


well thank goodness by the time 2009 rolls around my Daihatsu will probably be long gone. but me being me, i could do with it being compulsory to have airbags in any car I'M driving, given my record...

Richard Deakin

Original Poster:

256 posts

256 months

Thursday 16th September 2004
quotequote all
Hi guys
Just thought I should give you an update on progress. The straight legal case "you let the car in, you can't take it off the road" doesn't work as the LTSA is quite within its rights to remove any car from the road that they believe does not meet it's requirements.

I then wrote to the MP for the LTSA and the Director for the LTSA explaining my problem, pointing out the flaws in the rules and asking for them to reconsider. I haven't had a response from the MP, but I have had a detailed letter from the LTSA Director explaining that the only route forward would be to ask for an exemption from frontal impact requirements. He does note the case I would have to make to him.

I figure that the best way to do this would be to arrange for the car to go through a full LVV assessment process. This would demonstrate that under LVV rules the car would meet frontal impact requirements. Thus the only barrier is the arbitrary LVV quota rule.

It is clear that the vast majority of LVV cars have the same space frame chassis construction as the Chimaera and do not have any added safety features such as crumple zones, airbags, etc.

If anyone has any other suggestions, I'd like to hear them however, they must be legal and ethical!

I'm down, but not giving up.

Cheers
Richard

>> Edited by Richard Deakin on Friday 17th September 03:49

Esprit

6,370 posts

290 months

Friday 17th September 2004
quotequote all
Hrmmm..... well if I were you, I'd go for the "two birds with one stone" approach...... surely the LTSA is merely an AGENT for enforcing the laws of the land on vehicle safety and importation. If it's written into statute that low-volume manufacturers are allowed to be imported but the LTSA has merely interpreted this as "200" then why not challenge this.... the thing is, if you win, it sets a precedent opening up the way for the importation of TVRs into NZ for all...... or baybe a complete re-writing of the statute controlling LVV certification, possibly with some SENSIBILITY in it this time rather than being as inconsistent and dodgy as a Helen Clark "original painting".

nztrev

785 posts

243 months

Friday 17th September 2004
quotequote all
Hi Richard, glad your still fighting,not one to p*ss on the camp fire....... but the only way I see is a change of legislation.I'ved tried for over a year banging my head against the LTSA's brick wall to bring in a Tuscan via exemption. If your reading this Peter P*rnell (LTSA) your are a complete missleading a**hole

2ba 355

166 posts

262 months

Friday 17th September 2004
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Good Luck with your case Richard. As others have said , I would make as many of the press and mags aware of this. You probably know that Peter Wheeler sold TVR to a young Russian multi millionaire (24 yrs old I think !!) Now if this chap wants to expand sales etc TVR should be aware of how "grey areas" and changing legislation can affect exports from the UK. I have read that everyone feared the worst with the change of ownership, but apparently he has introduced major Q.C checks and witheld realising new models until they are really ready ? You have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Try the American style lawsuit and claim " post dramatic stress TVR withdrawl disorder!!"
Cheers
James

htsd

263 posts

247 months

Saturday 18th September 2004
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Probably the best way to prove that your car complies is to crash one unfortunately!! But it is bollox the way the laws are, it basically says that if a car manufacturer is too poor to crash their cars then its your choice if you want to die in one. Personally I'd far rather crash a Chimaera/other TVR than say a Westfield, or Fraser Clubman, or any of those other replicas- hell I'd prefer it to plenty of High-Vol cars! But unfortunately the law is an ass and there isn't much we can do about it. Good luck with your fight and I really do hope that you win- common sense will prevail and foreign car lovers everywhere (in NZ) will rejoice.