Norfolk Camera Vans and speed traps

[CTE]

On the local knews last night it said that Norfolk county council were scrapping the Scamera partnerships because hey could no longer afford to run them. On the face of it this is good knews because in many cases they really do not contribute to road safety, although in some cases they definately do.

I am concerned on two fronts though, it means that the average moron will think it is ok to drive however fast they like, ie through residential areas, and of even greater concern, will the authorities seek to farm this out to the private sector? If this were legal and viable, the freedom of the open road will be gone for all. I for one would definately emigrate, close down my business and unfortunately lay off the 40 people working for my company!
If this were to happen, the freedom of movement will go. We are already effectively working for the tax man, so we will have turned full circle over many hundereds of years, and reverted to a fuedal system. Thats progress for you.

[Jonathan27]

I'm surprised that they can't afford to run the scheme, I seem to have donated enough money to them over the years (thanks to the guys on the A11 bridges).

[Dan250]

The council pay to run the cameras and vans, but don't see any of the "proceeds".

[supermono]

If they're saving lives and reducing accidents (like they claim), the savings made there would easily cover their costs even without getting the fines. A single life would save about £1M from my understanding.

But they're not saving lives or reducing accidents, they're simply collecting £60+ of a bunch of people driving normally and that's why we can't afford to run them when somebody else gets the money.

The real question is how they've been allowed to claim accident reductions for so long, for example:

NCP Propaganda said:

7. What happens if the partnership is so successful that fewer people speed and there is insufficient Conditional Offer money from which to recover the operational costs?

If this happens there will be a very significant reduction in the number of people killed and injured on our roads. This will save far more in medical, emergency services and social costs, apart from the misery and suffering caused by accidents, than in loss of revenue. The benefits of safety camera enforcement could thus be recovered from savings made elsewhere.

There is nothing to worry about when these bozos are given the heave-ho.

By the way, speaking of accidents. When they are/were raising invoices from the bridge over the eastbound A11 just after the bend past shell at Besthorpe, it's fascinating to watch the cars panic braking and swerving about when they clock it. They even published a video showing accidents this random panic braking caused supposedly showing how dangerous speeding was, before they withdrew it presumably because even stupid people supporting cameras could see they were making accidents happen where they would otherwise not.

SM

[Jonny_uk]

http://www.edp24.co.uk/content/edp24/news/story.as...


I like the ex SCP heads comment

"It's not about raising revenue, it's about saving lives"

[ShieldandProtect]

Speed does not kill, if it did, all astronauts would be dead. Focusing on speed only take the emphasis of the causes of crashes which is crap roads, crap driving, which the majority of roads still follow old routes to market weaving around arable land which is worthless. The money should be spent on that, making roads safer by design. If I went by a speed camera at 200mph in my Veyron, went on another mile and ploughed into workmen killing 50 of them, how did that camera taking a photo of me doing 200mph make the roads any safer, especially for the people I killed?? £150 billion pounds is generated through road use, the spend about £12 billion a year on roads.

[busta]

I think the idea that people will now be driving at any speed they want wherever they want is a bit far fetched. They didn't before we had the cameras. What's the difference now? This year I have seen more police with hand held speed guns than I have done camera vans, and these will still be out in force, perhaps even more so.

It's good to see the camera vans and static cameras go, but I can't help thinking the dozen or so average speed cameras on the A149 at Stalham have been a bit of a waste of money. Apparently they have never been, and will never be, switched on. Yet everyone still does 45mph along the whole NSL stretch just in case...

[Dan250]

I have been reliably informed (by my girlfriend who works at the Magistrates Court) that the Norfolk police are wanting to take over and run the vans and cameras

[crankedup]

Dan250 said:

I have been reliably informed (by my girlfriend who works at the Magistrates Court) that the Norfolk police are wanting to take over and run the vans and cameras

But they will not be able to afford to do so when they come to the reality check of budget restraint.

[iluvmercs]

Dan250 said:

I have been reliably informed (by my girlfriend who works at the Magistrates Court) that the Norfolk police are wanting to take over and run the vans and cameras

I heard this, too, although on the news yesterday.

Why they want to spend money removing them is beyond me. The way they are planning to do it could lead to a "free-for-all" of young chavs ragging the crap out of their little Corsas and Novas, knowing they won't get caught by a camera.

They should have switched them off without telling anyone and they should leave them where they are. Then, they should add more traffic police, who should be more discretionary to each case. Not simply "black and white", as per the cameras.

Darren

[crankedup]

iluvmercs said:

Dan250 said:

I have been reliably informed (by my girlfriend who works at the Magistrates Court) that the Norfolk police are wanting to take over and run the vans and cameras

I heard this, too, although on the news yesterday.

Why they want to spend money removing them is beyond me. The way they are planning to do it could lead to a "free-for-all" of young chavs ragging the crap out of their little Corsas and Novas, knowing they won't get caught by a camera.

They should have switched them off without telling anyone and they should leave them where they are. Then, they should add more traffic police, who should be more discretionary to each case. Not simply "black and white", as per the cameras.

Darren

To leave the camera's in place but switched off in the hope that it would discourage 'Chav's' from speeding? This IMO would not be in the spirit of transparency, so beloved by politicians. Or put another way, downright dishonest deception. Above all of that, maybe the Authorities are waiting for the day when they can say 'told you it would be an disaster' removing funding from road safety partnerships.

[busta]

iluvmercs said:

Dan250 said:

I have been reliably informed (by my girlfriend who works at the Magistrates Court) that the Norfolk police are wanting to take over and run the vans and cameras

I heard this, too, although on the news yesterday.

Why they want to spend money removing them is beyond me. The way they are planning to do it could lead to a "free-for-all" of young chavs ragging the crap out of their little Corsas and Novas, knowing they won't get caught by a camera.

They should have switched them off without telling anyone and they should leave them where they are. Then, they should add more traffic police, who should be more discretionary to each case. Not simply "black and white", as per the cameras.

Darren

Not sure about this idea of chavs speeding everywhere because the cameras aren't there. There's plenty of camera-less roads anyway, where you can be 100% sure you won't be caught on camera and 99% sure you won't see a policeman. Do we see chavs speeding everywhere at the moment? Not particularly. I don't see how removing a few dozen cameras that cover less than 1% of our counties roads would cause a significant change. The media's coverage will be the thing that makes the biggest difference. If they continue to make it sound like the roads are becoming a lawless free-for-all then people may start to treat it like that, until theres a few hi-profile arrests and it'll all calm down again.

[iluvmercs]

Good points, gents.

I think my comment was somewhat sensationalistic.
I do believe a change in operation, and in the media is necessary, for sure. The rentless message that "Speed Kills" is simply ridiculous. This gets many a person to think travelling at 80mph on a duel carriageway is going to kill them and their entire family.
Speeding in the wrong environment or conditions can certainly be dangerous. If cameras were placed outside - I know it's a cliché - a school, to encourage people to slow down, then it should remain, switched on or not.

Don't forget that not all the cameras are switched on at the same time, too - I don't know this for a fact outside of Norfolk, but within it's evident. So, with regards to politicians wishing to be transparent on this issue, they currently aren't anyway!

Darren

[Puddenchucker]

There's an article in the Evening News ( Clicky you here ) about the police considering taking over running the speed cameras.

The comment that caught my eye was:
"If we went ahead with the plan, we would be looking at fewer cameras but in better locations. We would be looking at accident blackspots and areas with high volumes of pedestrians, such as schools"
(Stephen Bett, chairman of Norfolk Police Authority)

So the locations used by the SCP aren't the optimum for improving road safety?

[devildubber]

i can see this going in the private sector in which case we shall all be in a lot more trouble as they will have far more time to enforce it

[Soop Dogg]

CTE said:

I am concerned on two fronts though, it means that the average moron will think it is ok to drive however fast they like, ie through residential areas, and of even greater concern, will the authorities seek to farm this out to the private sector? If this were legal and viable, the freedom of the open road will be gone for all. I for one would definately emigrate, close down my business and unfortunately lay off the 40 people working for my company!

This is a bit sensationalist, TBH.

Removing the scamera partnership won't make a button of difference to the chavs in residential areas, because they don't tend to frequent those areas anyway. They prefer to sit on the county's main roads (A11/A47/A149 etc) where travelling at 80 to 90mph is much less dangerous, but catching people doing so is like shelling peas.

Perhaps if they HAD been seen in housing estates/residential areas, they'd have generated enough cash and made enough 'real' savings through preventing accidents that they'd have been a worthwhile asset to road safety. As it is, by taking the easy option and trying to simply generate cash through a high quantity of fines, they've probably screwed their own biscuit.

[crankedup]

devildubber said:

i can see this going in the private sector in which case we shall all be in a lot more trouble as they will have far more time to enforce it

Just imagine the public fury we are just about seeing off the privateer ahole clampers

[Puddenchucker]

crankedup said:

devildubber said:

i can see this going in the private sector in which case we shall all be in a lot more trouble as they will have far more time to enforce it

Just imagine the public fury we are just about seeing off the privateer ahole clampers

As I understand it, enforcement of speeding offences cannot be farmed out to the private sector unless the offence is de-criminalised. If it were de-criminalised and you were detected by a private company, you could only be fined - there would be no authority to endorse/add points to your licence. You'd still get points if a Police Officer caught you though.

[devildubber]

whatever happens its still a pain in the ass i believe you can drive fast and safe and germany has the right idea