RAF Marham Events - Comments for future improvements

[B'stard Child]

Hi All

The attendance for the two events a year have been dropping steadily over the past year and a half - OK so there is a recession on and that causes us all to look after the pennies and any track day regardless of the entry price being cheaper that circuit based events it's still fuel petrol and other costs that mean it's never going to be a cheap weekend (even if it does raise an awfull lot of cash for good causes)

I had a chat with the organisers and I said I'll start a thread up here looking for feedback from both people who attended and previous attendees who for whatever reason haven't attended recent events.

I don't know where this will lead but lets see what comes out.

I'll give some comments that have been mentioned to me

- Entry is more difficult than a turn up on the day arrangement

- Marham is a bit chippy

- The long straight is boring

- The events need to have dates better fixed (I know a lot of people got caught out with this event being a lot earlier than the norm)

- The April event is difficult to commit too when early April as the deadline is early March

- One event per year would be better (in the middle of the year)

Edited by B'stard Child on Sunday 5th September 20:15

[stevo666]

Ian

just my thoughts...

Does seem to have difficult access - I have personally been on Army bases with no notice given (and not escorted)

Sraight boring - I've mentioned this before - would be nice to try and carry out a total layout change?

Chips - maybe able to help for next event in the form of a 2m wide dry industrial sweeper from Nilfisk. Will need to discuss with George and co...

Beleive a single date may be heavily over subscribed.

Fixing of dates - probably a no goer due to operational reasons.

Prehaps the event needs to be better publicised on other forums/local car groups - ie MLR/Scooby city/RS etc

Hopefully others will have some input.....including posters from this forum who never attend - why not?
Any info would be helpful for Ian to discuss with the organisers.

Edited by stevo666 on Sunday 5th September 20:43

[boosty]

I couldn't do this weekend due to family commitments but it's the first weekend I've missed in a while.

I'd happily do 3 weekends a year, to go down to a single weekend would be a real shame in my mind.

The big reason that I think people may stay away is that whilst the long straight is great for allowing traffic to sort itself out it can get rather dull and really gobbles up fuel. A well publicised additional complex on the straight would certainly help. Alternatively a complete change of layout may spice it up for everyone.

[Spottedlaurel]

Having done my first Marham back in April, and being pleasantly surprised at how the Camry and I got on, I had every intention of coming back this time but the earlier date caught me out. Little time or money to recover from summer hol's...

My car is rather overwhelmed by the straight, so I just used it as an excuse for a relaxed cruise - I have no issue with it, those with higher power cars get their own kicks from it I should think whereas perhaps they couldn't really let rip on many 'proper' circuits?

I think it gives plenty of time for cars to get clear of each other - I personally wouldn't feel so happy on a more technical track as I'd constantly feel I was in the way of others.

I loved the relaxed feel of the day, and I certainly plan to be there again next April!

[perdu]

Hi Ian

I don't come to Marham as a PHer, I come along with MGMark's group but I feel you would like as wide a view as possible

OK the straight is Lo-o-o-ong if you're in my Midget, but that simply gives me a different lot of cars to tackle the hairpin complex with

A shorter straight just wouldn't work on Marham anyway but maybe a chicane half way along could add a tad of extra pizazz, that stright seems about half a mile wide after getting a start climbing the hill (specially when that Sunbeam starts tearing up the tarmac towards the distance) (I love that car!) lots of room for a little wiggle, nothing outrageous.

I travelled that straight at 170ish last time around in a TVR so I know that even at that speed there's time for a little "wiggle"

Other than that I had very serious reasons not to come this weekend (so instead I took out my engine and gearbox, well, a boy has to play doesn't he?) I will be back next Spring whether it be March, April or May

The Marham weekend is a vital part of my year, two is a bare essential but three would be pushing it for family reasons I reckon.

I hope this helps

I think this as a great event, hope it continues long into the future.

And thanks to George and co for keeping it going

[Jonny_uk]

I think you've got the main ones there,

When i last went access was the real pain, all the ID etc having to register everyone.

Chips - Way too much loose surface material, suprising considering you have jets up and down etc

The only other thing was the drivers briefing was great, but as always a small minority didn't pay attention

[B'stard Child]

perdu said:

Hi Ian

I don't come to Marham as a PHer, I come along with MGMark's group but I feel you would like as wide a view as possible

Absolutely - I appreciate your input

[B'stard Child]

Just to say

There maybe things that cannot be changed (much as many people would like them to be changed) but if we are open and honest in our discussions and accept some there may be some limitations in the outcome - maybe we can achieve something that improves then event for all who attend and those who have attended in the past but for whatever reason have given the event a miss recently.

TBH I'm not a fan of negative threads and I really want this to be a positive thread - it is for me a great event despite the work I need to put in to co-ordinate three forums entries as on the day I don't have to worry about anything else except keeping safe and enjoying the track with a bunch of like minded enthusiasts.

It's also obvious when you talk to the organisers at Marham that their enthusiasm for the event hasn't diminised with the recent lower attendances.

Incidently I did 199.4 miles on track on sunday (plus 50 mile round trip to the event and back) downside of that was I ran home on fumes and the car consumed 90 Litres of super unleaded and averaged comsumption over the whole day was 12.5mpg....

Oh and if anyone feels that the "Forum co-ordinator" needs to be changed to bring improvements to the event organisation I won't be offended - sometimes fresh blood in the process can bring about change in itself and due to personal issues I have struggled with the last event to run as tight a ship as I like to.

[giger]

I've been attending Marham twice a year since 2007. There was a big drop this year in participants, it was quite staggering (esp compared to 2007/2008) though this will not discourage me from attending future events. From what I can gether, many people have been put off after horror stories of stone chips from previous years. This in the past has been quite bad but this year was without doubt the best year for lack of stones. I taped my car up due to previous damage although this time around I think it was unnecessary.
I believe TRAX was also running on Sunday which also have drawn some people away but this will always be the case.

I haven't attended with PH before, but the thing that I noticed was that the announcement of the track day was left very late this time and susequent closing date for entry was very short. I nearly missed the boat which hasn't happened before. Maybe dates could be pencilled in and publicised 2-3 months before the event, with the actual date being confirmed closer to the time. This way hopefully momentum cam build up, word of mouth etc. and people can reserve a date (or dates) in their diary.

April and Sept seem to work well in terms of weather which is why I think holding the event midway through the year may be dodgy. Besides, I enjoy going twice a year ;o)

Drifting may have put people off as well in the past as I know there have been a few near misses and it has been the subject on much debate (and slagging) on other forums.

I can also understand the long straight for the old days of when big power and exotica used to turn up (the F40 at full chat down the straight was immense!) but without Ultimas, ferraris, lambos etc do we really need the mile straight anymore? Maybe some people find this off putting?

In all honesty I can't honestly believe how this event doesn't get busier year on year. It's very relaxed, a fun circuit and all for charity.

[B'stard Child]

giger said:

Some good stuff

Thanks for those points and I noticed the lack of stones hitting the floor pan too - was much better than previous events

giger said:

In all honesty I can't honestly believe how this event doesn't get busier year on year. It's very relaxed, a fun circuit and all for charity.

I'm concious (spl?) that a good balance needs to be struck - there was a period a year or so ago when it was almost too well attended (close to 170 cars on each day) and pit lane/paddock area was very very crowded

Edited by B'stard Child on Monday 6th September 14:13

[mark411]

This was my 2nd time at Marham, the 1st being April. I was with Mark in Ireland's little saab group. Love that long straight, where else can you get to the very high speeds legally in this country? I think the layout caters for all cars which I love, the smaller cars would leave me for dead in the twisties but real them back in over the straights...all good fun.

I think having 2 events per year potenitaly gives everybody a chance of attending. The event price is spot on, a real trump card I think. But, I really do think this event could do with more publicity prior to each event.

I will be attending next year and i'll be drumming up interest around my area to get more cars along (not just saabs but maybe a few more bm's and some trackcars etc)

[Grandad Gaz]

Hi,

First off I think thanks are in order to Ian for organising the PH side of things. He does a great job. Also, all the Marham volunteers who give up their weekend to make this event very enjoyable and laid back...and all the money goes to some very deserving charities. That alone makes the whole thing worthwhile, IMO

It's a great way to spend a couple of sunny days!

It can be quite time consuming getting onto the base but, due to security risks, that is unlikely to change, although having said that, the first time I went in 2005 access was via one of the side entrances and I don't recall having much of a problem there?

Let's face it, the track layout is ideal for fast exotic cars who are able to make the most of that long straight. However, with the risk of stone chips, these owners are very reluctant to put their £100k+ in jeopardy. In 2005 the Ferrari Owners Club were there. They had one session, all us "ordinary" folk had the second session, which worked out great and upped numbers. I presume they did not return due to stone chips??

I have seen Nobles and TVR's literally peppered at the front. These people do not return.

I think you need to think about somehow having a chip free track and then promoting it on forums like Ferrari, Lambos etc.

The way I see it, you could have two tracks overlapping each other. A bit like the indie and grand prix circuit at Brands but, have them running at the same time. Also drop a speed trap in on the straight (like Vmax at Brunters) with a prize for the top speed and it should appeal to all.

Lastly, let everyone know what the money is being raised for and how much it is.

PS. keep up the good work folks!

Edited by Grandad Gaz on Monday 6th September 18:27

[B'stard Child]

Grandad Gaz said:

Another few good points

Thanks "Grandad Gaz" - your name change still makes me laugh

I'm not sure that Marham do a few other stand alone events for some of the groups - I know a Ferrari 550 owner and he's certainly done a V-max type event at marham where cars run solo down the main runway - I thought the Mitsi Lancer/Evo register have had similar events there although not usre it's an annual thing

Regarding entry checks I'm gonna stick my neck out and be more specific about the comment that was made to me and it was related to the Richard Burns memorial rally event having a "turn up with ID and pay on the gate" which was at odds with the track day arrangements - I realise that with any event Marham need to have a control on the numbers but I could see the person had a point (I've never been to any of the RBM days - always clashes with "her" calander of events (Marham dates - being variable - get me one of my three "flexible kitchen passes"

Grandad Gaz said:

Lastly, let everyone know what the money is being raised for and how much it is.

Good point - it always gets mentioned in the briefings but I really should post it up on the relevant forums I look after I think the figure mentioned in the briefing this time was £10,000 for the weekend and something like £160,000 raised for charities since the track day events started - that's a pretty impresive performance all things considered.

[B'stard Child]

mark411 said:

This was my 2nd time at Marham, the 1st being April. I was with Mark in Ireland's little saab group.

I think there is an arguement for the UK saabs group to be recognised as a proper forum with attendance in their own right (they turn up in reasonable numbers and they have been attending for some time under the PH umbrella) - It's something I'll speak to Mark about when I get some time (although he might not thank me for it

mark411 said:

I think having 2 events per year potenitaly gives everybody a chance of attending. The event price is spot on, a real trump card I think. But, I really do think this event could do with more publicity prior to each event.

mark411 said:

I will be attending next year and i'll be drumming up interest around my area to get more cars along (not just saabs but maybe a few more bm's and some trackcars etc)

Appreciate all the assistance in publising the event however bear in mind that one of the statements in the original post on PH and on other forums that are invited is that the event must not be cross posted on "unapproved forums"

I believe this was as a result of a forum organising attendance and finding out just before the event that none of the Marham team were even aware they were attending - I think this was resolved with some considerable effort by the Marham team and no-body in the group was dissappointed but it was something that the Marham Team wanted to avoid happening again.

Keep them coming guys (and girls) - hopefully when the Marham team recover (from their hectic weekend making sure we all had fun) they'll get chance to review some of the points raised

[B'stard Child]

Spottedlaurel said:

I loved the relaxed feel of the day, and I certainly plan to be there again next April!

Picking on one point - I don't ever want to compromise what you've highlighted above - it's essential that the event stays orientated in that way

[2woody]

first of all, let's just say that this is definitely the best event on the calendar - in no uncertain terms. I've done every event bar one - and that now adds up to more than 5000 miles on the track at Marham. This year the Granger contingent consisted of six cars and eleven drivers, the majority having travelled over three hundred miles to get there.

secondly, are we right to be worrying about less people attending ? As far as I can tell, numbers would have to drop much, much further to put the event in jepoardy. For this event, this time, there were two factors conspiring to lower the numbers. The first of those is the general economic climate at the moment. Track days are certainly an expensive luxury that is quite rightly near the top of the list to be dropped if money is tight, the Evo managed to gulp over 300 litres of fuel on the track and maybe another 200 getting there and back. So total event expenditure is in the £800 range. And also for this event, the advertising seems to have been compromised on PH and ABS, but I'm sure that's only a temporary thing.

So why is the event so good ?

track layout. That's the key for me - the corners either end of the runway are truly "world-class" and should not be altered in any way, shape or form. I cannot state that strong enough.

RAF friendliness. Speaks for itself.

Great for newcomers.

Relaxed atmosphere. I would probably still come for the social atmosphere even if I couldn't drive for some reason.

Regarding the long straight (the runway), there are many people who come specifically for the runway, so putting in a chicane would likely cost more attendees than it would gain. Would the guy in the Bentley have been interested in coming if this weren't there ?

difficult to enter. Well, yes it is quite difficult to enter, but it is a serving front-line RAF base, so security has to be maintained. The entry requirements are very well laid out in the format published - it's not exactly rocket science filling in some details from your passport and sending a cheque off is it ?

stonechips. Well, i suppose that owners of more expenive cars may worry here, but the event is no worse than some others - do remember that you could get over 400 miles done over a weekend, which equates to maybe five "normal" trackdays. The short answer is that you shouldn't risk something you can't afford to lose. Brother Rob needs to change the windscreen in the Nova after every event, but does it put him off ?

so really I think the event is just about perfect in it's current form. I will try to bring a few more people next time, there are three or four that I think I could convince.

[Zippee]

I've not attended Marham for a few years now so some of these points may have already been addressed, however the factors that stopped me coming back were;

Stonechips, TVR paint is fairly soft and my car was peppered. I know stone chips are a known hazard but I wasn't prepared for just how many there would be. Following another car felt like driving into a hailstorm of stones.

Track layout - good but nothing too exciting, the main straight got a bit tedious and I felt that needed breaking up with some chicanes.

Drifters/idiots on track - nothing worse than getting half way round a corner than finding some idiot facing the wrong way having cocked up a drift. There seemed to be a major lack of decent marshalling to keep these people away from the other cars, though I believe this has now been remedied?

[B'stard Child]

Zippee said:

I've not attended Marham for a few years now so some of these points may have already been addressed, however the factors that stopped me coming back were;

Stonechips, TVR paint is fairly soft and my car was peppered. I know stone chips are a known hazard but I wasn't prepared for just how many there would be. Following another car felt like driving into a hailstorm of stones.

Track layout - good but nothing too exciting, the main straight got a bit tedious and I felt that needed breaking up with some chicanes.

Thanks for those points at I said at the start I am very interested in what stops people attending

Zippee said:

Drifters/idiots on track - nothing worse than getting half way round a corner than finding some idiot facing the wrong way having cocked up a drift. There seemed to be a major lack of decent marshalling to keep these people away from the other cars, though I believe this has now been remedied?

As stated in the Marham thread - Drifting is not longer permitted - used to be a lot of people who wanted to drift but as their attendance has dwindled the "need" to allow it has been removed

[2woody]

just thought of a couple of definite improvements....

Number one : a rainstorm booked for 13.00 to 14.00 on the Sunday

Number two : a bowser dispensing free fuel

seriously, I would be prepared to co-ordinate the PH grop if Ian didn't want to for some reason. Must be a good reason though !

[mrB10]

I love the event, have done it twice a year since an introduction from a fellow track-dayer back in 2007.

The main straight is a bit tedious HOWEVER it used to give you something to think about when you came up to the last bend at a 120+. Not sure I like the revised shorter section at that point, was this done to slow people down or because of building work that appeared to be going on at that end? One plus of this straight though is that first (2?) large apex's that lead to the straight, so hard to get right that its fab.

I also agree with the possible idea of breaking the straight, as this is so wide perhaps you could have the guys that want to put their cars top speed to the test going down to the right hand side of the track, and maybe those that enjoy a few twisties (or have a limited top end), put a hay bale chicane on the left hand side? Just a thought.

Also you can get cone blindness, a wall of cones can be quite confusing (although you do get used to it) but maybe a different colour one to show where to turn in etc?

Sometimes the marshals appear to be overzealous to bring the track to a close when someone has had an off, and although I understand the need, is it really necessary considering the size of the place and the huge run off areas that are around?

Entry, yes I agree that this time the time available to get entries in was short, I know that a few more would have attended however by the time word had got around it was too late. But as for ID, it's only a case of an id check and is no real difference to a normal track day where you have to present a drivers licence, register on-line at time of booking etc. Maybe that's a possible avenue, find an on-line booking facility that could speed up bookings and accept payments?

But food is good
The staff are brilliant
The atmosphere is nice and relaxed. Its an ideal venue for a pure novice.

Edited by mrB10 on Monday 6th September 14:54