390SE or is it?

[Nick Brough]

Hi,

Advertised as a 350i but badged as a 390SE. I have little knowledge of wedges, but I always thought the later 390SE's had a different bonnet and the "areofoils" at the back, so is she a re-engined re badged 350i or a 390SE

7th car down at :- http://www.waltonmotorcompany.co.uk/GetDealer.do?d...



Does anyone know about this car, from the ad she seems pricy but good.

Regards

Nick

Edited by Nick Brough on Thursday 24th December 04:06

[C O Jones]

Hi Nick, it looks like a 350 with 390 badges on.

There is no rear spoiler.

The front spoiler should have extra holes beside the driving lamps for brake cooling.

Bonnets etc. varied with the age of the car.

The exhaust looks like one of the 350 pattern ones and the pipes don't seem large enough for a 390.

The mirrors are the 390 pattern but many 350s had these fitted as an option.

Many 390s were actually registered as 350s but sold with an option pack so you can't even go by the registration document.

Assume it is a 350 until you find out more details.

Russ

[BadRed]

It could be a 350SE, which were fitted with 4ltr engines, cant see the badge on the rear of the wing which could give its Ltd edition number, its the right colour /age / wheels. Chris Tomas would know, or Wedgie, the 390 expert ( for expert please read anorak )

Edited by BadRed on Thursday 24th December 08:24

[eesbad]

BadRed said:

It could be a 350SE, which were fitted with 4ltr engines, cant see the badge on the rear of the wing which could give its Ltd edition number, its the right colour /age / wheels. Chris Tomas would know, or Wedgie, the 390 expert ( for expert please read anorak )

Looks like the right wheels for a 350SE - shame they've removed the Special Edition decals if it is...

edited to add pic

Edited by eesbad on Thursday 24th December 08:48

[gavinv88]

Does anyone know about this car, from the ad she seems pricy but good.

Regards

Nick

Hi Nick, i went to see this car around june or july. The car is being sold by the dealer for a mate (supposedly) and he (the dealer) has little knowledge of these wedges.
I was in my infancy of researching them at the time myself by the way!!!
The upshot: I thought she was a 350 until the bonnet came up to reveal 390 stamps and had no reason to disagree.She sounded great and engine behaved well. Decals gone perhaps due to the fairly recent paint job (ok, but not a top job in my opinion).
Underneath looked good, plenty of refurbed and repainted red/renewed red chassis/outrigger work.
Interior was decent too. One or two foibles, boot hinge broke (one) one headlight settled halfway up, and glove box catch not working !!! No biggies.
Don't pay too much attention to paintwork comment as i am fussy. It is good enough.
The car has in my opinion been on too long because he wants too much (return on outlay perhaps)
My parting shot was " the car is overpriced by £1500 mate" to which the dealers response was "i know my friend wont let it go for £3500"
I liked the car....too rich for me so set out to look harder and gain knowledge.
Now the smug ba^*&rd owner of a series one 350. (nice paint).
Hope this helps
Gavin

[Wedg1e]

Problem is, by the time the 350SE was made, Range Rovers were being fitted with 3.9L engines bearing the cast-in '3.9' on the plenum chamber. Being a cynical bd I'd have to point out that the plenums are interchangeable so it wouldn't take much work to swap a 3.9 plenum for the plain one of a 3.5L.

Even if it WAS a 3.9L engine it could be an ex-Rangy engine swapped into a 350i. This doesn't make it a 390SE though it MAY make it a 350SE as one can't rule out the possibility that TVR were by that time fitting box-stock Rangy engines themselves, leaving NCK to create the 400SE engines. Someone better-qualified than I would need to comment on whether that happened. If it didn't, then the alternative is that TVR were fitting 400SE-spec engines (ie the 3948 plus or minus some tuning work) to the 350 chassis. If they did, one would hope they upgraded the brakes...

Engine aside, it's not a 390SE as it lacks all of the flares, sills, air dam and rear wing of a 390SE (can't comment on the limited-slip diff and brakes). It's hard to see why anyone would buy a 390SE-spec engine in a 350 shell (from new), given the power-dressing of the period. Note that neither chassis plate nor log book will give you any clues.

As someone (eesbad?) pointed out, the wheels are correct for a 350SE, but no 390SE wore them from new as far as I'm aware (the 390 having been replaced by the 400SE before the 350SE came along).

So...

1. It's a 350 with a 3.9 plenum.
2. It's a 350 with a 3.9L Range Rover engine fitted later, tuned or otherwise
3. As above, but TVR did it themselves and called it a 350SE
4. It IS a 390SE, but the front half is.... oh dear, where IS this going

[Wedg1e]

C O Jones said:

Many 390s were actually registered as 350s but sold with an option pack so you can't even go by the registration document.

It wasn't cost-effective for TVR to go through the type-approval process for such a projected limited-run vehicle, so they charged the client for a 350i and then billed them another £5K for the engine work etc.. Hence the V5 tends to state the original capacity (3528, although some say 3498) and the chassis number includes the code for a 350, even though (on later cars at least) the shell was modded with extra-flared arches etc.

[grahamw48]

Nick Brough said:

Hi,

Advertised as a 350i but badged as a 390SE. I have little knowledge of wedges, but I always thought the later 390SE's had a different bonnet and the "areofoils" at the back, so is she a re-engined re badged 350i or a 390SE

7th car down at :- http://www.waltonmotorcompany.co.uk/GetDealer.do?d...



Does anyone know about this car, from the ad she seems pricy but good.

Regards

Nick

Edited by Nick Brough on Thursday 24th December 04:06

Hi Nick.

This is the last style of 390SE made...my old one, 1988, original spec'.
400SE replaced this model in 1989, so at least the badge on the back of the advertised car is incorrect (trade descriptions ?).



As to the car in question, it looks like a 350SE to me (only 26 made), but I'd have thought that a 1990 model would have the hotwire engine...something to check, as only the 3948cc and larger were hotwire.

I can never understand dealers saying that they don't know much about certain cars. Bullst ! A quick google search will tell them everything they want to know.

Not a good start.

Edited by grahamw48 on Thursday 24th December 14:26

[red tasman]

I seem to remember the car being for sale a couple of years ago and believe it to be one of the 350Se cars. The 390 badges added by the present owner to show it is in fact a 390 engine. Details of the cars in the following link:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TVR_350SE

[Wedg1e]

grahamw48 said:

I can never understand dealers saying that they don't know much about certain cars. Bullst ! A quick google search will tell them everything they want to know.

Good point; why buy in something you know nothing about and may be unable to sell?

[Nick Brough]

Hi,

Thanks for all the very interesting advice, info, (don't you just love the internet) and confirmation of my suspicions.

Regards

Nick

[TVR_owner]

Wedg1e said:

Problem is, by the time the 350SE was made, Range Rovers were being fitted with 3.9L engines bearing the cast-in '3.9' on the plenum chamber. Being a cynical bd I'd have to point out that the plenums are interchangeable so it wouldn't take much work to swap a 3.9 plenum for the plain one of a 3.5L.

Even if it WAS a 3.9L engine it could be an ex-Rangy engine swapped into a 350i. This doesn't make it a 390SE though it MAY make it a 350SE as one can't rule out the possibility that TVR were by that time fitting box-stock Rangy engines themselves, leaving NCK to create the 400SE engines. Someone better-qualified than I would need to comment on whether that happened. If it didn't, then the alternative is that TVR were fitting 400SE-spec engines (ie the 3948 plus or minus some tuning work) to the 350 chassis. If they did, one would hope they upgraded the brakes...

Engine aside, it's not a 390SE as it lacks all of the flares, sills, air dam and rear wing of a 390SE (can't comment on the limited-slip diff and brakes). It's hard to see why anyone would buy a 390SE-spec engine in a 350 shell (from new), given the power-dressing of the period. Note that neither chassis plate nor log book will give you any clues.

As someone (eesbad?) pointed out, the wheels are correct for a 350SE, but no 390SE wore them from new as far as I'm aware (the 390 having been replaced by the 400SE before the 350SE came along).

So...

1. It's a 350 with a 3.9 plenum.
2. It's a 350 with a 3.9L Range Rover engine fitted later, tuned or otherwise
3. As above, but TVR did it themselves and called it a 350SE
4. It IS a 390SE, but the front half is.... oh dear, where IS this going

Its a 350SE, they did not have upgraded brakes, they did have an LSD. 350SE's were NCK engine nos and a good heathly engine.

To say is it the correct engine as installed, well, same can be said of any used car.

Photos can lie, but first thoughts on price are it would seem a lot better buy than some of the tatty blinged up 400SEs advertised for 7K+ on here that really are 3K projects.

Sad that the "gurus" have to pull the car to pieces rather than just admit they dont know what it is..

Edited by TVR_owner on Thursday 24th December 20:15

[Wedg1e]

TVR_owner said:

Its a 350SE, they did not have upgraded brakes, they did have an LSD. 350SE's were NCK engine nos and a good heathly engine.

To say is it the correct engine as installed, well, same can be said of any used car.

Photos can lie, but first thoughts on price are it would seem a lot better buy than some of the tatty blinged up 400SEs advertised for 7K+ on here that really are 3K projects.

Sad that the "gurus" have to pull the car to pieces rather than just admit they dont know what it is..

Edited by TVR_owner on Thursday 24th December 20:15

No 'gurus' here mate, most of us only repeat what we get told by those who DO claim to be. Or write books about them. Like Graham Robson, whose book is probably responsible for 90+% of what gets repeated hereabouts.

That car may well be a 350SE but there have been more than one instance of 350s wearing badges they are not 'entitled' to. As a so-called enthusiast, why would you not rebadge your 350SE as such after a respray, instead of putting 390SE labels on? My engine is closer to 400SE spec than 390SE, can I call it a 400 then? I would certainly not dream of so doing, and would rightfully have the p155 taken if I did.

In my EXPERIENCE (ie not just opinion) TVRs so-called tuned Rover engines often are not, or at any rate have minimal work. I've also been told by at least one ex-TVR employee that what was actually fitted bore little resemblance to what the spec sheet said. So if it turned out that 350SEs had boggo Rangey lumps in, at a time when TVR were pushing the 'tuned' 400SE, it would come as no surprise. As (to the best of my knowledge) nobody has ever graced Pistonheads with a detailed analysis of the inside of a 350SE motor, we have minimal information to go on... say, for instance, your assertion that they were NCK engines. That makes you as much of a guru as anyone, I think

The rate of newcomers to the Wedge world seems to be rising exponentially; I'm sure nobody here would want to be ripped-off by some unscrupulous trader (not casting aspersions about this seller, mind) and would advise prospective buyers of the potential pitfalls of buying anything that doesn't fit squarely into the known model range... and a car that resembles a 350i, wears 350SE wheels and 390SE badges is a prime candidate for the ringing of alarm bells.
ETA: if you lok closely at the front threequarter pic there is 'something' just in front of the driver's door that COULD be the 'Limited Edition' logo that the 350SEs had. If they went to the trouble of saving/ replacing that, why prat about with 390SE badges....?

As to price, well a thing is only worth what a buyer is prepared to pay; the motor trade wants fast throughput so there WILL be room for manoeuvre. Perhaps (if a genuine 350SE) it has rarity on its side, but I'd bet the majority who want a 'big' wedge want one that LOOKS like a big wedge.

Edited by Wedg1e on Friday 25th December 00:11

[mike.williams]

Just to add my bit,....
I looked at two 350se's before I bought my 350.
Both had 4.0 on the plenum and had 400 wrap around dashes, so it may be wearing the se's wheels but I don't think it is one of them...

[dickieandjulie]

EEHSBAD - Is that the picture of the car in question?

I cannot see the pics in the ad, browser will not alloow for some reason but if its on that plate thats my old car and its a 350se (albeit with a few additions

Richard

[grahamw48]

These are from the ad':

[pwd95]

H reg, that shape body, those wheels, & what looks like a 350SE comemorative emblem on the wing.....has to be one of the 25 350SE's. Don't forget, they left out number 13 & made number 26 instead.

[dickieandjulie]

That looks like a 350SE all day

[JR]

TVR_owner said:

Its a 350SE, they did not have upgraded brakes, they did have an LSD. 350SE's were NCK engine nos and a good heathly engine. ... Photos can lie, but first thoughts on price are it would seem a lot better buy than some of the tatty blinged up 400SEs advertised for 7K+ on here

grahamw48 said:

These are from the ad':

pwd95 said:

H reg, that shape body, those wheels, & what looks like a 350SE comemorative emblem on the wing.....has to be one of the 25 350SE's. Don't forget, they left out number 13 & made number 26 instead.

dickieandjulie said:

That looks like a 350SE all day

I would go along with what has been said here. One odd bit is the LSD: any TVR Wedge could have had an LSD fitted at the factory when new. This looks like a really nice car from the advert and at a good price. The comment above about it only being worth £3500 at a dealer stunned me as it would imply that it's private sale value was about £2000 to £2500! Is that really what the last of the line commemorative edition 350s are worth now? That would mean that a standard 350i in mint condition is about £1500 to £2000 and an average condition 350i is worth less than a grand and a V6 car, say 50p. A flick through the Pistonheads classifieds tells a different story: two dealer cars, both higher mileage and slightly less money (£4500.)

People often write on this forum that the cars should be worth more but with owners criticising cars and prices at this level it only encourages buyers to offer peanuts.

Merry Christmas, Jonathan

[grahamw48]

It does look a very nice car, and for the (negotiable) price of a secondhand Kia.

Happy New Year all.