Rear end rumble!
Discussion
Hi guys
Has anyone had a rumble from the rear or my 450SE at 80mph and up? I've replaced the ujs all round, the wheel's not buckled (and it's coming in to late), the bushes seem ok. I've also tried the old weights on the 'shaft ploy! So it must be the Jag diff , can this vibrate?
Any theories?
Mark
Has anyone had a rumble from the rear or my 450SE at 80mph and up? I've replaced the ujs all round, the wheel's not buckled (and it's coming in to late), the bushes seem ok. I've also tried the old weights on the 'shaft ploy! So it must be the Jag diff , can this vibrate?
Any theories?
Mark
Mark:
Good Post. I also have a 450 SE in Germany with the same thing. I had the rear wheel bearings checked as well, and the diff and they checked out ok. Will inspect the other items listed below. I do not get the noise unless I'm doing about 80 or 90 mph, and it becomes very pronounced at 120ish. Thought I had a tire out of balance, but just had them checked -- ok.
Shawn
Good Post. I also have a 450 SE in Germany with the same thing. I had the rear wheel bearings checked as well, and the diff and they checked out ok. Will inspect the other items listed below. I do not get the noise unless I'm doing about 80 or 90 mph, and it becomes very pronounced at 120ish. Thought I had a tire out of balance, but just had them checked -- ok.
Shawn
I've got the same problem on my 91 400se.
So far, I've :
Replaced the wheel bearings
All new poly bushes/rebuild rear end and set up.
diff beam checked (ok)
New tyres, balance etc
All new Ujs, including prop.
Driveshafts dynamically balanced
Diff rebuilt by GKN. New clutch packs fitted.
I've still got faint vibes from 80mph up. More pronounced at 120mph, but nothing too bad. It can groan a bit and hop about too when manouevering if hot (after a thrash
)
GKN told me the problem is the diff design. Apparently it was designed for the (much heavier ) Jag XJ12, but even in this appliction it caused vibes. In fact a mate at Jaguar told me that for a while in the early 1990s Jaguar stopped fitting LSDs to XJ12s cos people were complaining about vibrations and groans.
You may just have to live with it old fruit, but if you find a fix, let me know cos I'd be interested too!
Andy 400se
So far, I've :
Replaced the wheel bearings
All new poly bushes/rebuild rear end and set up.
diff beam checked (ok)
New tyres, balance etc
All new Ujs, including prop.
Driveshafts dynamically balanced
Diff rebuilt by GKN. New clutch packs fitted.
I've still got faint vibes from 80mph up. More pronounced at 120mph, but nothing too bad. It can groan a bit and hop about too when manouevering if hot (after a thrash
) GKN told me the problem is the diff design. Apparently it was designed for the (much heavier ) Jag XJ12, but even in this appliction it caused vibes. In fact a mate at Jaguar told me that for a while in the early 1990s Jaguar stopped fitting LSDs to XJ12s cos people were complaining about vibrations and groans.
You may just have to live with it old fruit, but if you find a fix, let me know cos I'd be interested too!
Andy 400se
New POLY Bushes?????????????? I hope you mean Nylon. Poly bushes should NOT EVER be fitted to wishbones on a wedge. These are much too compliant and will cause all sorts of problems. Poly bushes should only be used in shock mountings and on the front tie bars on your car. Otherwise have you checked the diff beam to chassis bushes?
Theres nothing wrong with Poly-urethane bushes, if they're so cr#p then why was rubber (same shore rating) used as standard? I'd fit poly bushes over nylon any day to retain the isolation of the rubber bush without the degradtion. Unless you want something that transmits every single road imperfection in which case you'd be better off with rose joints like a race car.
Also the rear end rumble is a very common problem, my wedge, 2 of my colleagues and 3 others in my club all do it at 80mph. It was also noisy in the XJS. Change the oil for peace of mind and carry on motoring.
Matt
Also the rear end rumble is a very common problem, my wedge, 2 of my colleagues and 3 others in my club all do it at 80mph. It was also noisy in the XJS. Change the oil for peace of mind and carry on motoring.
Matt
Mark et al,
Sounds like you've done most things. A diff re-build is relatively cheap once removed, though the removal can be a pain (and when it's out you can check the mounts and the cradle. I had a guy off Junc't 9 of M1 (A5) {got his number of Tower View) to rebuild my diff and fit a vvtight LSD for competition work. This plus new bearings, bushes, crown wheel bolts, etc, etc cost £350ish. Also Richard at Moore Racing is looking into the LSD settings for Wedges to overcome the fact that they are a bit agressive for the lighter wedges - worth a call.
Cheers,
Garry
Sounds like you've done most things. A diff re-build is relatively cheap once removed, though the removal can be a pain (and when it's out you can check the mounts and the cradle. I had a guy off Junc't 9 of M1 (A5) {got his number of Tower View) to rebuild my diff and fit a vvtight LSD for competition work. This plus new bearings, bushes, crown wheel bolts, etc, etc cost £350ish. Also Richard at Moore Racing is looking into the LSD settings for Wedges to overcome the fact that they are a bit agressive for the lighter wedges - worth a call.
Cheers,
Garry
Thanks Griffman, try keeping up flames and all!
It seems the diff in the Wedge is of agricultural design and only fit for speeds under 80mph, what is the point of blasting up to 150mph passing Griffman and all you can do is hold the car together with the steering wheel! I arrive at Le Mans deaf (good) with my brain fizzing (bad!). I need a remedy and so do all you other top Wedge guys out there it seems. What does Richard at Moore Racing think?
Looks like diff out?
Let's have this sorted before Le Mans 2003 or wingman "Griffman" will so be on my case again, if (and I know I speak for all big Wedges) he can keep up!
More info needed please.
Cheers Shaun, Matt, Garr, Andy and Danny, it shall be fixed!
Mark
It seems the diff in the Wedge is of agricultural design and only fit for speeds under 80mph, what is the point of blasting up to 150mph passing Griffman and all you can do is hold the car together with the steering wheel! I arrive at Le Mans deaf (good) with my brain fizzing (bad!). I need a remedy and so do all you other top Wedge guys out there it seems. What does Richard at Moore Racing think?
Looks like diff out?
Let's have this sorted before Le Mans 2003 or wingman "Griffman" will so be on my case again, if (and I know I speak for all big Wedges) he can keep up!
More info needed please.
Cheers Shaun, Matt, Garr, Andy and Danny, it shall be fixed!
Mark
Hi Mark,
Sorry ot hear about the diff rumble. Getting the rear axle out is fairly straight forawrd. I have the rear assembly out of my 350 at the moment. It took about two hours to get the whole lot on the floor. Admittedly i have a pit and good equipment, but it wasn't a difficult job. From underneath, disconnect the handbrake cable, brake pipe and rear prop flange bolts and slacken without removing the tie bar front bolts, the bolts in the middle front of the diff cradle and the lower rear cradle bolts. I found one of the rear lowers was the worst as a socket would not fit on it properly. Then cut a pair of small holes in the boot floor to acces the shock mounts(see the bible). The jack the car up good and high. I supported mine on a large section of timber on the spine of the chassis, with axle stands. get jack under the axle assy, compress the springs and remove the bolts, lower to ground, go to pub for a pint.
I wish i had done this when i overhauled the rear calipers and discs when i bought the car.
Hope this helps and sorry if i'm telling you how to suck an egg.
Mick
Sorry ot hear about the diff rumble. Getting the rear axle out is fairly straight forawrd. I have the rear assembly out of my 350 at the moment. It took about two hours to get the whole lot on the floor. Admittedly i have a pit and good equipment, but it wasn't a difficult job. From underneath, disconnect the handbrake cable, brake pipe and rear prop flange bolts and slacken without removing the tie bar front bolts, the bolts in the middle front of the diff cradle and the lower rear cradle bolts. I found one of the rear lowers was the worst as a socket would not fit on it properly. Then cut a pair of small holes in the boot floor to acces the shock mounts(see the bible). The jack the car up good and high. I supported mine on a large section of timber on the spine of the chassis, with axle stands. get jack under the axle assy, compress the springs and remove the bolts, lower to ground, go to pub for a pint.
I wish i had done this when i overhauled the rear calipers and discs when i bought the car.
Hope this helps and sorry if i'm telling you how to suck an egg.
Mick
Cheers (or Salut) Mick for the advice, this seems to be the way forward but I think I need to make sure this IS the problem. Can I take off a plate and look inside and look for any obvious wearing first?
That's open to everyone...
Griffman, just see how many people care about Wedges, does ir make you feel lonely? Va va voom!
That's open to everyone...
Griffman, just see how many people care about Wedges, does ir make you feel lonely? Va va voom!
Bonjour Mark,
I don't hink it is possible to remove the rear cover plate in situ. Steve may well be able to correct me on this one. Also if you succeeded i'm not sure there would really be any visible wear or damage. Like wheel bearings these noises can happen on what appears to be good components. It may be worht taking it to your local transmission specialist for a 2nd opinion.
good luck,
Mick
I don't hink it is possible to remove the rear cover plate in situ. Steve may well be able to correct me on this one. Also if you succeeded i'm not sure there would really be any visible wear or damage. Like wheel bearings these noises can happen on what appears to be good components. It may be worht taking it to your local transmission specialist for a 2nd opinion.
good luck,
Mick
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