Discussion
I assume that this affects the classic car market in the way that unleaded did some time ago.
I wonder what the effects will be on the ole RV8?
https://uk.yahoo.com/finance/news/1-m-uk-vehicles-...
I wonder what the effects will be on the ole RV8?
https://uk.yahoo.com/finance/news/1-m-uk-vehicles-...
That Yahoo article was written by a dimwit. “...which could make it more difficult to start a vehicle that has not been driven for an extended period. If true, this would lead to drivers filling up more often, increasing the cost of their annual fuel bill."
That last sentence is nonsense : only doing more mileage would increase the annual fuel bill. People who simply fill up more often would obviously PUT LESS IN each time !
That last sentence is nonsense : only doing more mileage would increase the annual fuel bill. People who simply fill up more often would obviously PUT LESS IN each time !
It's not really about the validity of the text in the article.
The question is what are the implications long term of not being able to get the so-called E5 variant of fuel, for classic cars?
All cars I have, have a long winter layup and just being run every now again, during that period.
Other things I have been reading of late relate to hoses, rubber interconnections (injectors) aluminum, etc.
Quote...
"Ethanol is hygroscopic, which means that it absorbs water from the atmosphere. And that water, in turn, finds its way into your car. It can lead to condensation in fuel tanks, fuel lines and carburettors and cause corrosion in brass, copper, lead, tin and zinc components.
As ethanol is also a solvent it can eat through rubber, plastic and fibreglass, so hoses and seals are likely to perish more quickly."
The question is what are the implications long term of not being able to get the so-called E5 variant of fuel, for classic cars?
All cars I have, have a long winter layup and just being run every now again, during that period.
Other things I have been reading of late relate to hoses, rubber interconnections (injectors) aluminum, etc.
Quote...
"Ethanol is hygroscopic, which means that it absorbs water from the atmosphere. And that water, in turn, finds its way into your car. It can lead to condensation in fuel tanks, fuel lines and carburettors and cause corrosion in brass, copper, lead, tin and zinc components.
As ethanol is also a solvent it can eat through rubber, plastic and fibreglass, so hoses and seals are likely to perish more quickly."
frontfloater said:
That Yahoo article was written by a dimwit. “...which could make it more difficult to start a vehicle that has not been driven for an extended period. If true, this would lead to drivers filling up more often, increasing the cost of their annual fuel bill."
That last sentence is nonsense : only doing more mileage would increase the annual fuel bill. People who simply fill up more often would obviously PUT LESS IN each time !
If you carry a heavy fuel load around all the time it will have an adverse affect on your fuel consumption.That last sentence is nonsense : only doing more mileage would increase the annual fuel bill. People who simply fill up more often would obviously PUT LESS IN each time !
E10 has been widely used on the continent for years. Al that is needed on a Wedge is updated fuel hoses so they are resilient to the Ethanol content, plenty of TVRs are owned on the continent without issue.
On the winter storage issue put Esso or BP in the tank before you put the car away for winter or run it almost empty and store empty and stick somethings fresh fuel in the tank when you wake it up in the spring.
The availability of ethanol-free high grade fuel was already discussed here :
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Esso already sells ethanol-free 99 octane at many of their stations, and is aiming to have it available at all of their outlets by early 2022. Of course, it will be more expensive than the standard stuff, but a price worth paying to avoid the pitfalls.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Esso already sells ethanol-free 99 octane at many of their stations, and is aiming to have it available at all of their outlets by early 2022. Of course, it will be more expensive than the standard stuff, but a price worth paying to avoid the pitfalls.
Shell's website does not list any ethanol-free fuels. Their relevant webpage refers to "UP TO 5% ethanol in petrol" and "in the UK, Shell regular unleaded and Shell V-Power unleaded ARE LIKELY TO contain some ethanol", which isn't very clear or helpful.
I've sent their customer services a question asking whether any of their fuels are in fact ethanol-free, like Esso's 99-octane is in most areas of the UK.
I've sent their customer services a question asking whether any of their fuels are in fact ethanol-free, like Esso's 99-octane is in most areas of the UK.
BlueWedgy said:
I think they are all much of a muchness, unless you are looking at some exotic fuels.
I think you will find that they're not. I researched this a while back when I became aware of this ethanol con trick (as I have a carburetted motorbike with a 'plastic' tank) and Esso had the only ethanol free fuel. It turned me from being a longterm Shell V-Power fanboy into an Esso Supreme+ fanboy overnight. It was 'only' 97 RON back then but now, at 99 RON, it's a complete no brainer. Nice to see other petrolheads getting excited about it now too, quite a few concurrent threads on here. The more of it that Esso sell, the less chance of them discontinuing it.
People need to made made aware of how bad an idea ethanol is in fuel, but we're all expected to go along with it because its being promoted as being 'better for the environment'. Which it actually isn't.
Edited by TwinKam on Friday 16th July 21:07
That was not how I understood the question, it was a comparison of 2 fuels not the ethanol content.
However, you could remove the ethanol, if you think it would help.
http://www.ethanil.co.uk/
However, you could remove the ethanol, if you think it would help.
http://www.ethanil.co.uk/
Shell UK have now sent a couple of replies, but they are vague :
"Thank you for getting in touch with us. Following the Government’s introduction of E10 later this year, Shell’s regular fuels will become E10 fuels, which means this fuel will contain anywhere between 5 and 10% ethanol content. Shell V-Power will be Shell’s ‘protection grade’ fuel which means it will remain as an E5 fuel and will have an ethanol content of less than 5%."
When I asked whether "less than 5%" actually means zero in practice, as with Esso 99, they came back with :
"All Shell V-Power Unleaded gasoline complies with the requirements of the European gasoline fuel standard EN228, which stipulates for the E5 grade a maximum ethanol content of 5%. There is no minimum level stated and it is not possible to state an exact ethanol content of all V-Power fuel."
"Thank you for getting in touch with us. Following the Government’s introduction of E10 later this year, Shell’s regular fuels will become E10 fuels, which means this fuel will contain anywhere between 5 and 10% ethanol content. Shell V-Power will be Shell’s ‘protection grade’ fuel which means it will remain as an E5 fuel and will have an ethanol content of less than 5%."
When I asked whether "less than 5%" actually means zero in practice, as with Esso 99, they came back with :
"All Shell V-Power Unleaded gasoline complies with the requirements of the European gasoline fuel standard EN228, which stipulates for the E5 grade a maximum ethanol content of 5%. There is no minimum level stated and it is not possible to state an exact ethanol content of all V-Power fuel."
BlueWedgy said:
That was not how I understood the question, it was a comparison of 2 fuels not the ethanol content.
However, you could remove the ethanol, if you think it would help.
http://www.ethanil.co.uk/
So all you do is - add water, shake it up, then pour off the petrol from the top.However, you could remove the ethanol, if you think it would help.
http://www.ethanil.co.uk/
Presumably it creates a 50% ethanol/water mixture as "waste", with a petrolly taste, or in other words, a Rusty Nail!
Yep, you have to get the ratio of water right, Lots of money for a fancy container with a drain tap. 
Then you need to update the octane as the percentage of ethanol removed lowers it.
If my brief read on the subject is correct
One thing is for sure it's not going away, and you can bet your bottom pound that the fuel companies will put as much ethanol in as possible, as it appears to be relatively cheap to produce.
Then you need to update the octane as the percentage of ethanol removed lowers it.
If my brief read on the subject is correct
One thing is for sure it's not going away, and you can bet your bottom pound that the fuel companies will put as much ethanol in as possible, as it appears to be relatively cheap to produce.
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