Chassis protection
Discussion
I coated mine in Tectyl 506 and do not regret that. Although several people know say I should have left it just as powder coat.
My opinion is that putting a wax on it provides great protection from stones damaging the coating, but I can see the argument that when you come to sell then the buyer may be suspicious of the wax.
I don't want to get into the debate about why powder coat it when modern paints may be better. I do not doubt that they are, but I wanted the car to remain as original as possible and as the outriggers lasted 25 years with the naff TVR standard chassis preparation and rushing them through on a budget, I expect that with a high level of preparation and a modern powder coat process, it won't need doing again in my ownership or life time.
My opinion is that putting a wax on it provides great protection from stones damaging the coating, but I can see the argument that when you come to sell then the buyer may be suspicious of the wax.
I don't want to get into the debate about why powder coat it when modern paints may be better. I do not doubt that they are, but I wanted the car to remain as original as possible and as the outriggers lasted 25 years with the naff TVR standard chassis preparation and rushing them through on a budget, I expect that with a high level of preparation and a modern powder coat process, it won't need doing again in my ownership or life time.
I have used Dinitrol 4941 wax on all the hidden areas when the body is on and what I think are mud and water traps:-
Body mountings, where the rubber pads sit
Top and side of outriggers
Front and rear Suspension top mounts
Once the body is on you can't do a proper job afterwards due to limited access. It's a peace of mind thing, some additional protection. I won't be doing this job again, it will out last me.
My car (400SE) won't be used in all weathers, the last chassis lasted 30yrs and after all this time only the outriggers needed replacing. I did not want to coat the entire chassis, I wanted to see the shiny Red chassis. Working on a car that's had the entire chassis covered in Waxoil is horrible.
I think Wax oil gets a bad press because its used once rust has got a good hold on the chassis and people just cover the rust in wax oil.
Body mountings, where the rubber pads sit
Top and side of outriggers
Front and rear Suspension top mounts
Once the body is on you can't do a proper job afterwards due to limited access. It's a peace of mind thing, some additional protection. I won't be doing this job again, it will out last me.
My car (400SE) won't be used in all weathers, the last chassis lasted 30yrs and after all this time only the outriggers needed replacing. I did not want to coat the entire chassis, I wanted to see the shiny Red chassis. Working on a car that's had the entire chassis covered in Waxoil is horrible.
I think Wax oil gets a bad press because its used once rust has got a good hold on the chassis and people just cover the rust in wax oil.
As a youngster and years before wax oil was a product I think, mid 70’s this old bloke used to weld up cars and after paint would apply a film of some sort of grease. Each year the customer would bring it back for service he would apply another coat of this grease over the dust and crud with some sort of spray gun, hand pumped I’m sure it was, something he made I think, I was very young,,,
He said cars rotted away but not his bit
the crud hardened and it formed an impenetrable layer
It’s great to hear the TVR even older than my own have chassis that lasted.
I’m in the process of doing a body off on the old Chim, I used epoxy mastic paint but just like a powder coated chassis it needs protection from stone chips so I’m using Dinitrol 447 elastic anti-Stonechip which is for classic car bodies usually, wheel arches etc and I’ll use it on my out riggers as a final protection. Just another option
He said cars rotted away but not his bit
the crud hardened and it formed an impenetrable layer It’s great to hear the TVR even older than my own have chassis that lasted.
I’m in the process of doing a body off on the old Chim, I used epoxy mastic paint but just like a powder coated chassis it needs protection from stone chips so I’m using Dinitrol 447 elastic anti-Stonechip which is for classic car bodies usually, wheel arches etc and I’ll use it on my out riggers as a final protection. Just another option
Mike Sanders is a perfect thing to protrct new items.
its a kind if grease which is applied hot and can be washed off later, just in case you want your shiny chassis back.
if your powder-coating has been done well (not the usual cheapish botch like the majority of coaters) there is no real necessity to protect it.
dont drive in winter and give it a weekly clean as UK country-roads are quite dirty and muddy.
its a kind if grease which is applied hot and can be washed off later, just in case you want your shiny chassis back.
if your powder-coating has been done well (not the usual cheapish botch like the majority of coaters) there is no real necessity to protect it.
dont drive in winter and give it a weekly clean as UK country-roads are quite dirty and muddy.
proper powder-coating on steel is done the following ways:
1.cleaning:
The workpieces are freed of surface residues such as dust, scale, rust, dirt and grease by chemicals.
The cleaning process is mechanically supported by brushing, blasting or grinding.
2.Phosphating.
3.If the workpiece is also to receive corrosion protection before powder coating, this is also applied as a conversion layer.
4.At the end of the pre-treatment for powder coating, the workpieces are dried. . Before the actual powder coating, the surface of the work piece must be absolutely dry. A thorough surface pretreatment is essential for a proper powder coating in order to exclude paint peeling or craters in the paint layer.
no3. is a very important step...as most dont do it....
how much you paid for the powder-coating?
my prefered and ONLY solution would be: galvanizing or hot-dip zinc, followed by powder coating
has been done multiple times with success. you just need to drill some holes into the chassis tubes that the air inside the tubes can expand with the advantage that also the inside of the tubes will get galvanized.
this is THE only way to do it right.
also successfully done @ more filigree tubing in lotus-sevenish kitcars
1.cleaning:
The workpieces are freed of surface residues such as dust, scale, rust, dirt and grease by chemicals.
The cleaning process is mechanically supported by brushing, blasting or grinding.
2.Phosphating.
3.If the workpiece is also to receive corrosion protection before powder coating, this is also applied as a conversion layer.
4.At the end of the pre-treatment for powder coating, the workpieces are dried. . Before the actual powder coating, the surface of the work piece must be absolutely dry. A thorough surface pretreatment is essential for a proper powder coating in order to exclude paint peeling or craters in the paint layer.
no3. is a very important step...as most dont do it....
how much you paid for the powder-coating?
my prefered and ONLY solution would be: galvanizing or hot-dip zinc, followed by powder coating
has been done multiple times with success. you just need to drill some holes into the chassis tubes that the air inside the tubes can expand with the advantage that also the inside of the tubes will get galvanized.
this is THE only way to do it right.
also successfully done @ more filigree tubing in lotus-sevenish kitcars
Edited by LLantrisant on Tuesday 15th December 22:45
Thanks for that info above, explains probably, why most PC falls off
This was carried out by RT Racing before I bought the car so cannot confirm how the process was carried out.
I've a Caterham that I built new in 1990 and the powder coat started flaking off after a few years so TVR weren't alone in poor powder coating processes.
This was carried out by RT Racing before I bought the car so cannot confirm how the process was carried out.
I've a Caterham that I built new in 1990 and the powder coat started flaking off after a few years so TVR weren't alone in poor powder coating processes.
westfield, sylva, caterham.....nearly all suffered from this.....and its ONLY related to poor /cheapish coating
when TVR started with the Tasmin to powder coat their chassis, in the first years it was done at an external specialist.
those chassis lasted very long....later TVR decided to do the coating pocess in-house and here the trouble started..and they never got it right until they closed their factory.
when TVR started with the Tasmin to powder coat their chassis, in the first years it was done at an external specialist.
those chassis lasted very long....later TVR decided to do the coating pocess in-house and here the trouble started..and they never got it right until they closed their factory.
Tasmin's were originally black paint, then as said, contracted out in a grey thermoplastic coating this LOOKED like it lasted a long time BUT in reality once the coating failed, it would peel off. It was impossible to blast off and you could put a blade to the edge and end up with a skeleton of the chassis. where it did adhere, we would use a blow torch to simply warm it up and it would drip off onto the floor (our blaster would double his cost). TVR first in-house chassis hard powder, did not use a chromate coating and so is poor, and when they then started to wash and chromate, they then were masking bolt points, for ease of build, that left risers for rust to migrate along under the powder. A@
Edited by Adrian@ on Wednesday 16th December 09:57
LLantrisant said:
westfield, sylva, caterham.....nearly all suffered from this.....and its ONLY related to poor /cheapish coating
when TVR started with the Tasmin to powder coat their chassis, in the first years it was done at an external specialist.
those chassis lasted very long....later TVR decided to do the coating pocess in-house and here the trouble started..and they never got it right until they closed their factory.
Which powder coating company if any would you recommend to use as it sounds like they were all rubbish at the job back in the day. when TVR started with the Tasmin to powder coat their chassis, in the first years it was done at an external specialist.
those chassis lasted very long....later TVR decided to do the coating pocess in-house and here the trouble started..and they never got it right until they closed their factory.
I’ve never seen anything powdercoated that’s subject to hot/ cold elements quite like a car chassis that lasts more than ten years so I’m assuming every powder coater is doing it wrong then.
If a car manufacturer designed cars to last 30 years they might be out of business in no time.
Modern manufactures design to last 10 years.
Why should Tvr do more than major manufacturers considering there extremely low production volume.
Galvanising sounds like the ultimate but you have to drill at least two holes in every tube, the whole chassis is subject to intense heat so warping a real issue or can be and the pictures you show above are from a company in Europe who went bust at one stage I seem to remember.
There are no garrantee’s galving will just be a simple job.
Epoxy mastic paints have been proven to work and last in extreme conditions like the North Sea.
There is now more than one way to skin a cat.
My chassis will out last me which is great for someone when I’m brown bread
Edited by Classic Chim on Wednesday 16th December 09:57
Adrian@ said:
Tasmin's were originally black paint
And in my experience can be very good. I had a 450SE back in the late '80's that was used in all weathers for 6 years/60K miles. About 5 years into ownership I had an old-school restoration garage go over the chassis and prime/repaint as necessary - IIRC they used a zinc primer and 'chassis black' that they used in all their restoration work. I believe this is an enamel paint typically used for the underside of HGV's.I now have a 33 year old 420 SEAC with a painted black chassis which has not been suffered any major rot, but has been painted where needed over the years. Personally I'm quite happy to rub down any surface rust and coat with POR15 these days.
Classic Chim said:
Galvanising sounds like the ultimate
Stainless steel is the ultimate ultimate! Look at the Hatter's stainless SEAC, looks like brand new, and not a sign of any paint on it.
So all my outrigger repairs (in fact any corrosion-related repair even on euroboxes) are done with stainless.
I had an S3 from new in 1990 which I used as an every day car - big mistake. After a year the red powder coating was literally falling off and I remember pulling a sheet of it off the upper radiator surround. When I went on a Back Home factory tour in 1999 I saw chassis sat there in the jigs on the Saturday starting to gain surface rust, so I asked the guide what did TVR do next - shot blast them? I was told no, they powder coat over the top and all is good so I thought no wonder, I must have had a Friday chassis on my car.
When I changed my car for an 87 420 SEAC the powder coat was white and in much much better condition than my S. I didn't want the same to happen to this car so did the same as I had done on the S which was re-paint parts of it then protect the exposed parts with high impact underbody seal . It didn't look pretty and still occasionally suffered from stone chips so got a touch-up every year, but for peace of mind I'd rather keep it safely sealed away and know it can be cleaned off if needed. I sold that car and have had an 89 350i for several years but did the same with that. Again it had a decent white powder coat which needed attention. I wish I'd used white underbody seal on the chassis and black on the suspension. Whatever you do the heat and stones do damage it so it needs an occasional inspection and touch-up.
My neighbour has just bought a fantastic Cobra replica with 5k on the clock. That has a black powder coated chassis and it's been wax oiled, but it has gained odd stone chips mainly behind the wheels and along the outriggers. The chips have gone rusty so he's going to touch those up in some way. Personally I don't see any point wax oiling the exposed parts because it just doesn't give enough protection, but as a buyer at least you can see what you're letting yourself in for.
When I changed my car for an 87 420 SEAC the powder coat was white and in much much better condition than my S. I didn't want the same to happen to this car so did the same as I had done on the S which was re-paint parts of it then protect the exposed parts with high impact underbody seal . It didn't look pretty and still occasionally suffered from stone chips so got a touch-up every year, but for peace of mind I'd rather keep it safely sealed away and know it can be cleaned off if needed. I sold that car and have had an 89 350i for several years but did the same with that. Again it had a decent white powder coat which needed attention. I wish I'd used white underbody seal on the chassis and black on the suspension. Whatever you do the heat and stones do damage it so it needs an occasional inspection and touch-up.
My neighbour has just bought a fantastic Cobra replica with 5k on the clock. That has a black powder coated chassis and it's been wax oiled, but it has gained odd stone chips mainly behind the wheels and along the outriggers. The chips have gone rusty so he's going to touch those up in some way. Personally I don't see any point wax oiling the exposed parts because it just doesn't give enough protection, but as a buyer at least you can see what you're letting yourself in for.
adam quantrill said:
Stainless steel is the ultimate ultimate!
Look at the Hatter's stainless SEAC, looks like brand new, and not a sign of any paint on it.
So all my outrigger repairs (in fact any corrosion-related repair even on euroboxes) are done with stainless.
I don’t want to look. I’ve slaved away preparing and painting my chassis in Epoxy paint just to see the ultimate and I’ve not done that Look at the Hatter's stainless SEAC, looks like brand new, and not a sign of any paint on it.
So all my outrigger repairs (in fact any corrosion-related repair even on euroboxes) are done with stainless.
I wish every mechanic was like you including myself as some stainless outriggers would have been a great party trick and surely last longer no matter what you cover them with.
I’m fairly satisfied booth sprayed on epoxy paint to a fresh shot blasted chassis fully prepared and diligently covered with 3 Coats then riggers a couple of coats of rubberised stone chip on top should hold up for at least as long as I can physically drive the car. If they don’t last 15-20 years I’d be disappointed based on all the evidence these paint companies supply. We will see.
Gassing Station | Wedges | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff