Tasmin 280i starts and stalls immediatley

[LLantrisant]

the old k-jetronic problem.....starts on the button...but immediatley stalls....

background: i drove my car out of my garage to clean the windscreen and side glasses, started the car another time, drove it further upwards my yard...exit the car, took some pictures, jumped back in....and here we go:

it starts, but dosent keep running, stalls straight away after start....i can keep it running by using the start-position of the ingition key: but rev.-conter shows 0.
all other gauges work.

my car has already the coloured wiring loom, with fusebox and relay board in passenger footwhell...all fuses are ok...relais all well connected, no corrosion in sockets.

problem seems mainly fuel related, as the fuel-pump does not get a signal to start. (ok...then its also related to electrics)
i activated the pump for a second with 12v, by using a battery charger, so the pump runs.

any ideas which part is responsible that the fuel-pump starts?

i have recognized on the sticker of the fuse- and relais-board, the pump has no extra fuse, neither a specific relais named as "fuel-pump"

i also checked the bible for electric diagrams....but only find the ones for the black wiring loom and the US Spec.

Edited by LLantrisant on Tuesday 1st December 16:06

[LLantrisant]

that was also my thinkinig....and interestingwise i found the blue ballast cable, originally cable-tid to the chassis left side of radiator but havent followed the wire (if its still connected because: i also found a ceramic ballast resistor in the same area, connected with the correct color coded wires by 6.3mm spade connectors which do not look aftermarket...at least they arent of those blue/red/yellow type

as far as i remember the blue ballast wire has bullet typ connectors?

[rev-erend]

Petrol in tank?

[Penelope Stopit]

LLantrisant said:

problem seems mainly fuel related, as the fuel-pump does not get a signal to start. (ok...then its also related to electrics)
i activated the pump for a second with 12v, by using a battery charger, so the pump runs.

Did it run ok when you activated the fuel pump?

[LLantrisant]

Penelope Stopit said:

Did it run ok when you activated the fuel pump?

i activated the fuel pump only for a secnd or 2...just to verify the pump isnt stuck.

didnt try it during starting.


yes, fuel is in the tank....i topped it up recently before car went into winter sotrage.

as its a 280,the fan is a mechanical driven one...not electric.

[LLantrisant]

can anybody explain me what part is activating the pump and why the fuseboard does not have a dedicated fuse for the pump?

[Penelope Stopit]

LLantrisant said:

Penelope Stopit said:

Did it run ok when you activated the fuel pump?

i activated the fuel pump only for a secnd or 2...just to verify the pump isnt stuck.

didnt try it during starting.

Ok then

Is there any chance of you getting the pump running and see if the engine then runs ok?

Need to know if the problem is fuel pump circuit or other before delving deeper

[LLantrisant]

i dont want to run the pump from a remote power....dont want to destroy it.

i have checked if the pump gets signal when i start the engine, or to be precise: when the engine has started to run --> no power to the pump.

so what causes the pump to run?

and why isnt the pump fused?

could i use also a non-ballast coil and bypass the ballast-system permanently?

Edited by LLantrisant on Tuesday 1st December 19:15

[mrzigazaga]

Hi

There is a green plug on the metering head that is connected to the fuel pump, it means that the pump will only come on in crank position (2) on the ignition, if you unplug it the pump should run on position 1 of ignition switch..pre-crank.
Are your relays and fuses okay?

[LLantrisant]

mrzigazaga said:

Hi

There is a green plug on the metering head that is connected to the fuel pump, it means that the pump will only come on in crank position (2) on the ignition, if you unplug it the pump should run on position 1 of ignition switch..pre-crank.
Are your relays and fuses okay?

this plug exists only with early models (with TVR only with black wired cars and 4-speed box), mine is a 1983, already with smiths instruments, 5-speed and coloured wiring loom, and here this plug on the metering head isnt exsitng anymore. so i cannot do that test...would have been easy...

fuses are all ok....relays....there is only 1 relais which comes into consideration, the pink one, i guess?

but i´m still not understanding the system: which part is activating the fuel-pump and why the fuel pump has no dedicated fuse in the fuse-box?

what i neither understand: all those relevant parts (e.g. the relays) are electro-mechanical parts...not electronic...so they dont fail from 1 second to the other.

2moro i will bypass the ballast....its bloody cold and humide outside...too late for experiments now.

Edited by LLantrisant on Tuesday 1st December 20:28

[Penelope Stopit]

There is no problem in powering the kjet fuel pump with a 12 volt battery to see if the engine runs

Anyway

Here is a webpage with a kjet information download link, you have to wait several seconds before it lets you download the pdf file
https://vwts.ru/injector/k_and_ke-jetronic.pdf

Have you got a pink relay?

This following page has information on the system and relay

https://www.zeepoort.nl/jetronic/K-Jetronic-troubl...

The pink relay does nothing until the engine is cranked and it senses the ignition pulse at the ignition coil, once the pulse is there it will stay held in (for some reason I thought the relay also gave a 2 second prime when the ignition is switched on)

The fault you are attempting to cure could be caused by a loss of ignition coil supply when in the ignition on position. What I mean is the coil supply could be ok during cranking but failing with ignition on

[Penelope Stopit]

Hello mrzigazaga

[mrzigazaga]

Penelope Stopit said:

Hello mrzigazaga

...hello

[mrzigazaga]

LLantrisant said:

mrzigazaga said:

Hi

There is a green plug on the metering head that is connected to the fuel pump, it means that the pump will only come on in crank position (2) on the ignition, if you unplug it the pump should run on position 1 of ignition switch..pre-crank.
Are your relays and fuses okay?

this plug exists only with early models (with TVR only with black wired cars and 4-speed box), mine is a 1983, already with smiths instruments, 5-speed and coloured wiring loom, and here this plug on the metering head isnt exsitng anymore. so i cannot do that test...would have been easy...

fuses are all ok....relays....there is only 1 relais which comes into consideration, the pink one, i guess?

but i´m still not understanding the system: which part is activating the fuel-pump and why the fuel pump has no dedicated fuse in the fuse-box?

what i neither understand: all those relevant parts (e.g. the relays) are electro-mechanical parts...not electronic...so they dont fail from 1 second to the other.

2moro i will bypass the ballast....its bloody cold and humide outside...too late for experiments now.

Edited by LLantrisant on Tuesday 1st December 20:28

My ole 280i was 1983 too and had coloured wiring..and had the plug...oh well...TVR we love you...

[jeremyc]

Check out KelvinatorNZ's Tasmin thread where he provides a detailed description of a complete overhaul of the KJet system.

[Grady]

We have been talking about this on our side of the pond in the context of the 5 wire pink/purple fuel pump relay (UK) vs 6 wire cream/beige Engine Run Sensor (USA) unit. The USA cream ones are now unobtainable and we have been addressing a safe way (pump off in the event of loss of ignition (i.e. crash)) to use a 5 wire relay.

However, there seems to be a second issue with some 280s (including mine) cranking but not starting (yes on ignition but probably no on fuel) after they have warmed up.

Below is what we believe the UK version to be:



The top shows the Ford logo, 68 125, Relais Zus.-Benzinpumpe, 12 V. One side bears a white stamp, showing 9LB402.
Pinouts are as follows:
31
|87 |1 15
30

There is apparently a solid state version of the relay. I couldn't get the link to work but on Fleaby search on: Fuel Pump Relay FDB552 Lucas 6161570 85AG9P704AA

Also for testing purposes and with a long enough jumper, you can power the pump directly off the battery (or other 12 volt source). The excess fuel will return to the tank so it should do no damage. Grady

Edited by Grady on Tuesday 1st December 22:57

[LLantrisant]

the relay is easy available:

https://www.motomobil.com/en/products/relay-fuel-p...

[Penelope Stopit]

Penelope Stopit said:

(for some reason I thought the relay also gave a 2 second prime when the ignition is switched on)

Mmmm, I still think that the pink relay gives a 2 second or so prime when the ignition is switched on

A partner in crime owned a car with kjet pink relay and has just confirmed that there was a 2 second prime

[Penelope Stopit]

Penelope Stopit said:

Have you got a pink relay?

Will try again

Have you found a pink relay wired into the fuel pump circuit?

[LLantrisant]

jeremyc said:

Check out KelvinatorNZ's Tasmin thread where he provides a detailed description of a complete overhaul of the KJet system.

i have read nearly all web-postings related to that....also Kelvinators page....multiple times...
1. its not an EU Modell
2. i "just" have a problem with my electric fuel pump not getting powered...so i do not need to overhaul the complete k-jetronic. netiehr do i need to proceed complex test with fuel pressure etc., as (i repeat) its "just" the fuel-pump not getting powered.

meanwhile i have understood (at least i think i have understood) how the fuel pump works.

in theory it can be only the ballast wire / resistor or the pink relay

this said: the k-jetronic is quite simple and usually reliable...in case of defects the core item is the fuel distributor..if this is damaged its quite expensive to repair ....maybe worth on a porsche or mercedes, but not with our low value tasmins....if a severe damage would happen to my system i would immediately change to carbs....which would also help to boost the mid-range torque.