is your wedge a ringer

[petercam]

how many people have been in this situation? I have (see www.tvrwedgepages.com under owners), although I didn't pay hugely over the odds for my 350i with 390SE badges. In hindsight, I did all the wrong things - bought the first one I saw, and didn't get enough advice from the experts (you guys) beforehand. In my defence, living in Scotland, there are not that many for sale up here, and I had to travel to London to get one. I ended up buying a shed that wasnt running, with no MOT, although I probably paid only £1k over the odds. 8 months later, it is nearing MOT standard, as I am determined to get it running (with lots of help from Noel Flannery).
When I phoned Mervyn
Larner (model registrar) to check what I had bought, he told me some guy in the US had paid serious cash for what was a 350i with 450SE bodykit and decals (I didn't feel so bad after hearing that)
As an advice topic for any future prospective wedge owners, what is your wedge ni
ghtmare story - or was it all plain sailing?

[M@H]

See Ian V's story..

www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?p=2&f=12&t=10492&h=0&hw=ringed

Cheers
Matt.

[Podie]

Did Ian V ever get to the bottom of it? Would kinda like to know the ending to that story...

[davidy]

As I've said before, these cars are NOT ringers, they are replicas (or fakes)!!. A ringer typically has its identity switched with another car, these cars still generally have the same chassis (inc no), engine, etc as when they left the factory, they usually have had some body details changed and in some cases engine changes, there are in this world:-

AC Aces that have been turned into Cobras
Granturas/Vixens that have turned into Griffith/Tuscan
Healey Race Replicas
Ferrari 250GTs that have become 250GTOs

etc etc

I'm sorry for all the people who are misled when they purchase a car, but there is some onus on you to check the vehicle's provanence before you buy, and in the case of TVRs you can HPI + check with TVRCC + check with previous owners on the V5.

I certainly don't condone passing a car off as something else, but please stop calling them Ringers

davidy

[Podie]

Davidy - I see your point, but I think the greater issue is that these cars are being deliberately mis-represented at the point of sale...

[davidy]

I agree, we want to stamp out the mis-representation (at its worst in Ian V's case) but it does work the other way too.

I had a mate who had a 2.3V6 Cortina MkIV, ok its along time ago, and I had a modified Cavalier 2.0 Sportshatch and I just could not pull away from him, when his head gasket finally went, he bought a 2.3 headgasket and it didn't fit because he had a 2.8 engine (visually similar) so was he robbed???

davidy

[Podie]

IMHO, no he wasn't robbed. He paid his money and got MORE for it than LESS... although this does not make it right...

[cpn]

If he had faced a claim on his insurance, and they found he 'misrepresented' his vehicle, would they have covered him? Would he still have felt he had done well out of this after the claim adjuster had finished?

[Podie]

cpn - interesting point... although NOT his fault, he is still responsible for it, so technically they could have refused AFAIK.

[davidy]

Are you misrepresenting if you genuinely don't know ???

After my mate found out, he upgraded his insurance, but before, he just didn't know, other than it was a bit quicker than exepcted.

The same can apply to seller of a 'faked' cart, he genuinely may not know it was a fake, howvere as soon as he puts the details in print then a contract with the purchsaer starts, if its all done verbally, who is right and who is wrong...?

This is a very grey area

davidy

[M@H]

quote:
As I've said before, these cars are NOT ringers, they are replicas (or fakes)!!. A ringer typically has its identity switched with another car, these cars still generally have the same chassis (inc no), engine, etc

True but not in Ian V's case..

quote:
..
The VIN plate and chassis number belong to a 1982 Tasmin 200 which was written off in 1991
..
The engine number has also been changed, and the gearbox numbers have been removed..

Ringer in my book for sure..

Cheers,
Matt.

[Podie]

quote:
Are you misrepresenting if you genuinely don't know ???

After my mate found out, he upgraded his insurance, but before, he just didn't know, other than it was a bit quicker than exepcted.

The same can apply to seller of a 'faked' cart, he genuinely may not know it was a fake, howvere as soon as he puts the details in print then a contract with the purchsaer starts, if its all done verbally, who is right and who is wrong...?

This is a very grey area

davidy

Agreed that it is very grey, but the insurance companies do have a right to refuse cover as it is the owners responsibility to KNOW.

To be honest, I think most would honour the insurance as it was a genuine mistake etc etc..

[davidy]

M&H

OK so I buy a written off car, I can legitimately rebuild it keeping all the original chassis numbers/engine numbers etc.

I could choose to rebuild it with a different engine (can be documented on V5) and at this point it is a rebuilt car with a different engine, if this replicates another car model then it would be a replica or a fake. It is NOT a Ringer as it is still the original vehicle with a different engine, etc

Now to pass it off as something else is mis-representation which from all the postings about Ian Vs car is what I believe happened, however IMHO Ian Vs car is/was a 400SE replica built on a 1982 Tasmin chassis (anyone who says that the V8 will not fit in an early Tasmin chassis is wrong, as there used to be an early 280FHC in the Berkshire region (circa 1991) that had a Rover V8 in it with only engine mount mods and one rail move)

If the car had been sold as a 400SE replica then it would have been priced accordingly and whoever bought it would be in full knowledge of their purchase.

davidy

[petercam]

ok point taken, it is not a ringer. An imposter, or clone, call it what you will, but trying to get this one back on topic, anyone bought a wedge that was not all it was advertised to be?

[M@H]

quote:
M&H..

(M@H actually... )

Ok I take your point, a ringer would have had the numbers physically changed on a different chassis, not just a different chassis. Apologies.

Cheers
Matt.

[wedg1e]

One thing that is worth being aware of is that the wedge chassis - or at least later ones - have the VIN number stamped into one of the suspension towers. Of course it was done before the engine was fitted, so is a pain to get at, but by the same token would be difficult for anyone to grind out and restamp.

My ex-wife bought a Cavalier 1.6 that turned out to have a 1.8 Carlton engine in... she got rid sharpish, mostly because it didn't have the Carlton's PAS and weighed a ton. But we didn't tell the buyer what was in it...


I once bought a Mini 1100 Super that had a standard 1000cc engine in; I told the insurers and they wanted an engineer's report to say it had been fitted correctly, even though it was slower than original!

Ian

[Ian V]

davidy,

As you have had no involvement in my case I don't see how you can be so sure of what my car may or may not be. The truth is this, the Police have proved the car to be a 1990 400SE which was stolen from Kensington in 1992. The reg number and chassis number belong to a 1982 Tasmin 200 which was written off in 1991. All the relevant numbers have been changed or ground off to conceal the cars true identity. Luckly whoever did the deed missed the producing numbers on the doors etc, which enabled the car to be traced with help from the factory.

I have finally had agreement from Brundle's that they are at fault and that they are prepared to settle out of court. I am now repurchasing the car from the insurance company who actually own it, and will then be re-registering it on its correct plates. I will also be taking the car back to TVR to have the cars chassis re stamped and a correct VIN plate fitted.

I think that you must now agree that this is a ringed car.

I must also thank everyone on this site who has helped in this matter, especially Steve Heath, who has been a mine of information.

Ian V

[gf350]

Ian
Pleased to hear you have got it sorted.
GF.