450SE Ignition Help!

[shawn ford]

I have an H Reg 450SE that is experiencing starting woes. When the key is turned to the accessory mode (first postion), the alternator light, low oil pressure light come on, and the fuel pump primes as usual. The minute I hit the key to engage the selanoid/starter motor, everything shuts down. If I turn the key to the 'off' position, and try turning the key to the accessory mode again, I have nothing (no lights or fuel pump priming). If I leave it sit for a day, and turn the key to the accessory mode, the lights and fuel pump will activate, but the minute I turn the key to the start mode, everything dies. I am having trouble even operating accessories such as window lifts and headlamps in the accessory mode.

I have checked all the connections/earth connections to ensure they were clean, and even replaced the battery, but to no avail. In addition, I have checked the selanoid coil for continuity and starter motor, and those are fine. I can only suspect some ignition circuitry.

Any suggestions would be most helpful.

Cheers

Shawn Ford
450 SE

[andymadmak]

Sounds like either the ignition keyswitch itself or some fault with your alarm/imobiliser.
I'd start with the ignition switch. Its a Ford item. My old Escort used to exhibit similar symptoms. The barrel case had cracked and turning the key the whole way to engage the starter broke the contacts at the positions one and two!
If its yer imoblieiser yer on yer own mate....!

Andy 400se

[GreenV8S]

When you say accessory mode, do you really mean turning the ignition on? Accessory mode (if you have one) would normally power the accessories (duh) but leave the ignition off. In which case, this suggests the 'accessory' feed is leaking into the ignition circuit somewhere.

[TIM WOOD]

Shawn

Does your car have the central locking / immobiliser fitted ? If so I have found that setting / re-setting
a few times can help with these systems.

A possible help may be taking your relays out a few times to clean the contacts, if you haven't looked at
the 'mess' called a fuse / relay board your in for a bit of a shock. !!!

Also would try and check the main power / earth feed
to your starter motor.

Good luck
Cheers

Tim 450 SE

[wedg1e]

I concur with either the ignition switch, or the two relays (at least, there are 2 on my car!) labelled as 'Ignition' on the relay board. All the current for everything goes through them.
The other possibility is a bad connection to the battery/ chassis/ engine, so the starter pulls that much current the circuit breaks. Had a similar prob on my Tasmin a few years ago.

[shawn ford]

Hey guys

Thanks for all the suggestions. I've removed the two ignition relays and took them to Bosch and had them checked -- both were good. After checking the ignition system with a multimeter, I'm getting power clear down to the selanoid and when I hit the key I get the 'click click' but no start. At this point, I can only suspect the selanoid.

The starter/selanoid appears to be a one-piece unit. My previous two cars had the selanoids mounted in the engine compartment and could be easily replaced. Can the selanoid on the 400/450SE's be replaced without replacing the starter motor as well? Also, are the manufactures of these items Rover (I see something like Marvel Master printed on the motor itself)? I'm inclined to just replace both while I'm in there, but it looks damn tight with the exhast to get that starter out. Anyone had the pleasure of replacing one in these cars?

Thanks

Shawn Ford
450 SE

[shpub]

Pages 90-91 in the bible. Yes it can be tight and you might need to remove a bit of exhaust to do it. Assume no and see how it goes.

As for solenoids etc, easiest to simpy get the unit reconned or an exchange. The motor is a bit of a special and Rover ones don't fit as they are too long. Small hi-torque one are usually used. The marvel name is one such brand.

Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk

[shawn ford]

It's alive and well . . . finally.

Thank You all for your suggestions. Turns out the starter was bad. I pulled the motor out, and hoped I would find a new replacement, but it seems to be a bit of a special starter as Steve indicated. After searching a bit, I went ahead and took the starter in to have it rebuilt. Also replaced the selanoid while I was in there, and have plans to build some type of heat shield, or wrap manifolds to reduce heat in that area. Any suggestions regarding heat reduction?

Thanks

Shawn Ford
450 SE

[shpub]

Just wrap it in some aluminiumised cloth. The special starter wraps are expensive compared to buying the cloth and cutting a strip to suit. Don't use exhaust wrap. I use some locking wire to hold the stuff in place.

Steve