Discussion
Crikey Steve! - I thought you had a sense of humour. On special offer at Woolworth this week!
Cuneus - there are no letters stating the car is an SEAC - the records that show the car as an SEAC are held by TVRCC and this information has been taken from TVR records. I have asked for a photocopy of those records - alas without success.
There is a letter from TVR saying the car has an engine of 4230 cc, and another letter from TVR Centre that says they have no record of the car.
Toodlepip!
Cuneus - there are no letters stating the car is an SEAC - the records that show the car as an SEAC are held by TVRCC and this information has been taken from TVR records. I have asked for a photocopy of those records - alas without success.
There is a letter from TVR saying the car has an engine of 4230 cc, and another letter from TVR Centre that says they have no record of the car.
Toodlepip!
Cuneus - there are no letters stating the car is an SEAC - the records that show the car as an SEAC are held by TVRCC and this information has been taken from TVR records. I have asked for a photocopy of those records - alas without success.
hang on a cotton pickin minute........after all these months....... there is no evidence after all, that it is a seac other than a set of stickers and an engine that was also an option on the 390se....
firefox1712 said:
Aw - c'mon yoose guys!
It's not the same with none of you taking potshots at me and my Wedge anymore!
Let's hear the latest daft suggestion! Can you see tyre tracks on the moon? Perhaps it went to the moon and back before it was registered?
For chrissake! - I'm getting withdrawal symptoms!
firefox
>> Edited by firefox1712 on Friday 15th October 20:23
I see there is a rebuilt 420 SEAC engine for sale in the classifieds of this months sprint. Wonder if there are any 350's out there looking to upgrade
. Seriously good price too, £1800 
. Harry
Richard Sails Well, Cuneus -
I believe the information about the car being a 420 SEAC came from him (Richard Sails) - and from his predecessor Mervyn Larner.
Mervyn told me when I called him that he had had several enquiries about the car and he told them the same that he told me! So therefore there will be one or two of you that already knew the information on the car.
** I have now trawled through emails on my 'normal/ business' email address.
The information held by TVRCC has been confirmed several times - that the car is shown as being a TVR 420 SEAC. The information came from Ralph Dodds, Grant somebody (I do apologise to him for forgetting his surname), and Richard Sails.
Prior to this Mervyn Larner had told me over the 'phone that the build sheet for the car showed it to be a TVR 420 SEAC, metallic black, with modified windscreen aperture. He mentioned that others had enquired about the car.
Upon further emails between me and Richard Sails the car was confirmed as a 420 SEAC from information taken from TVR records. He corrected me regarding the build sheet - apparently the information was not contained on the build sheet as I had previously been advised but was taken from records made from TVR factory records.
Mr Sails commented that whilst the car would not be considered on first sight to be an SEAC the records state that it is.
I hope this helps.
cheers!
JJ
>> Edited by firefox1712 on Friday 15th October 22:51
I believe the information about the car being a 420 SEAC came from him (Richard Sails) - and from his predecessor Mervyn Larner.
Mervyn told me when I called him that he had had several enquiries about the car and he told them the same that he told me! So therefore there will be one or two of you that already knew the information on the car.
** I have now trawled through emails on my 'normal/ business' email address.
The information held by TVRCC has been confirmed several times - that the car is shown as being a TVR 420 SEAC. The information came from Ralph Dodds, Grant somebody (I do apologise to him for forgetting his surname), and Richard Sails.
Prior to this Mervyn Larner had told me over the 'phone that the build sheet for the car showed it to be a TVR 420 SEAC, metallic black, with modified windscreen aperture. He mentioned that others had enquired about the car.
Upon further emails between me and Richard Sails the car was confirmed as a 420 SEAC from information taken from TVR records. He corrected me regarding the build sheet - apparently the information was not contained on the build sheet as I had previously been advised but was taken from records made from TVR factory records.
Mr Sails commented that whilst the car would not be considered on first sight to be an SEAC the records state that it is.
I hope this helps.
cheers!
JJ
>> Edited by firefox1712 on Friday 15th October 22:51
Normally I always use email to discuss cars history with the owners, however since JJ has brought all the details into this rather public forum and encouraged debate I will reply on the same forum.
First; the TVRCC have never had a set of build records/sheets for the wedge series. My predecessor Mervyn Larner spent several days of his own time, at the factory (with Peter Wheelers permission) copying build records which he entered into a database. This database contains pretty much every car built by TVR up to and including all the wedges. This database is maintained by our database administrator Grant Crouch and it is this database that I use to answer many of the questions I receive (about 2 to 3 a day). This database is a great asset to the TVRCC and Mervyn should be thanked by us all for it!
Second; although JJ is not actually a member of the TVRCC, in the spirit of good will between fellow TVR owners, we have provided every possible assistance to him in supplying all the data that we hold on his car.
Thirdly; According to our records a new SEAC with the same chassis, engine and registration numbers did leave the factory in August 1986 and was subsequently sold via the TVR center at Barnet. How much of that car, if any, is now in JJ's garage is difficult to know. Certainly the records mention a 'modified windscreen aperture' but there is no mention of a different shape body so we can be fairly certain that the body that left the factory was a standard SEAC, it of course may have been changed at a later date.
It will be difficult to prove one way or another if the chassis is the same one as left the factory on that day so the burden of proof lies with the engine. Again however it would be difficult to prove beyond any doubt that this block is the same block that left the factory, it is possible to reproduce a identical spec engine and stamp the correct numbers onto the engine.
This leaves us with a conundrum, unless another car appears out of the woodwork carrying the same engine or chassis numbers, then we should assume that JJ's car is connected with or possibly is partly the original car that left the factory. However we can not prove that this is the case and unless the cars history can be traced back to the day it left the factory then doubt will always cast its shadow across the cars provenance.
While it would be great to confirm that JJ’s car is the original car that left the factory, without further evidence either way it would be difficult to comment further.
Finally; JJ good luck in your quest to get to the bottom of the mystery, let me know if you find out any more details.
eddited to add;
Many wedges were incorrectly registered as 3.5 engines, I am told that it was a type approval thing but I do not have any evidence to support that...
>> Edited by richard sails on Saturday 16th October 01:20
First; the TVRCC have never had a set of build records/sheets for the wedge series. My predecessor Mervyn Larner spent several days of his own time, at the factory (with Peter Wheelers permission) copying build records which he entered into a database. This database contains pretty much every car built by TVR up to and including all the wedges. This database is maintained by our database administrator Grant Crouch and it is this database that I use to answer many of the questions I receive (about 2 to 3 a day). This database is a great asset to the TVRCC and Mervyn should be thanked by us all for it!
Second; although JJ is not actually a member of the TVRCC, in the spirit of good will between fellow TVR owners, we have provided every possible assistance to him in supplying all the data that we hold on his car.
Thirdly; According to our records a new SEAC with the same chassis, engine and registration numbers did leave the factory in August 1986 and was subsequently sold via the TVR center at Barnet. How much of that car, if any, is now in JJ's garage is difficult to know. Certainly the records mention a 'modified windscreen aperture' but there is no mention of a different shape body so we can be fairly certain that the body that left the factory was a standard SEAC, it of course may have been changed at a later date.
It will be difficult to prove one way or another if the chassis is the same one as left the factory on that day so the burden of proof lies with the engine. Again however it would be difficult to prove beyond any doubt that this block is the same block that left the factory, it is possible to reproduce a identical spec engine and stamp the correct numbers onto the engine.
This leaves us with a conundrum, unless another car appears out of the woodwork carrying the same engine or chassis numbers, then we should assume that JJ's car is connected with or possibly is partly the original car that left the factory. However we can not prove that this is the case and unless the cars history can be traced back to the day it left the factory then doubt will always cast its shadow across the cars provenance.
While it would be great to confirm that JJ’s car is the original car that left the factory, without further evidence either way it would be difficult to comment further.
Finally; JJ good luck in your quest to get to the bottom of the mystery, let me know if you find out any more details.
eddited to add;
Many wedges were incorrectly registered as 3.5 engines, I am told that it was a type approval thing but I do not have any evidence to support that...
>> Edited by richard sails on Saturday 16th October 01:20
pistolar said:
Cuneus - there are no letters stating the car is an SEAC - the records that show the car as an SEAC are held by TVRCC and this information has been taken from TVR records. I have asked for a photocopy of those records - alas without success.
There is a letter from TVR saying the car has an engine of 4230 cc, and another letter from TVR Centre that says they have no record of the car.
hang on a cotton pickin minute........after all these months....... there is no evidence after all, that it is a seac other than a set of stickers and an engine that was also an option on the 390se....
Oh FFS. lol
I've got griff sized front tyres on my 350i and a Griff otter switch (an authentic part)with housing designed and fitted by the factory with documentary proof; does this make it a Griff despite all of the other evidence to the contrary. AFAIK, FF, you still haven't addressed the issues that Tas raised months ago; did you have a hand in the Hitler diaries?
Could it be that this car has a greater significance in the development of TVR than even JJ has considered?
chi·me·ra also chi·mae·ra
1. An individual who has received a transplant of genetically and immunologically different tissue.
2. An organism, organ, or part consisting of two or more tissues of different genetic composition, produced as a result of organ transplant, grafting, or genetic engineering.
3. A vain, foolish, or incongruous fancy, or creature of the imagination.
4. A fanciful mental illusion or fabrication.
It could be that this very car was the inspiration that resulted in later models being named after mythical beasts.
Now that really would be interesting, documentary evidence anybody?
chi·me·ra also chi·mae·ra
1. An individual who has received a transplant of genetically and immunologically different tissue.
2. An organism, organ, or part consisting of two or more tissues of different genetic composition, produced as a result of organ transplant, grafting, or genetic engineering.
3. A vain, foolish, or incongruous fancy, or creature of the imagination.
4. A fanciful mental illusion or fabrication.
It could be that this very car was the inspiration that resulted in later models being named after mythical beasts.
Now that really would be interesting, documentary evidence anybody?
You know, when I first got into TVRs, one had to rely on the Car Club magazine, the dealers or (rarely) the factory for information.
Then the internet came along and suddenly there was a whole new world of contacts and information open to us.
In my early days with my Tasmin, I would write a letter into 'Sprint'. It would be published, and perhaps a month later I could read a reply in the next issue. If I allowed my phone number to be published, I may even get a call from someone who could tell me exactly what I wanted to know.
In such fashion did I get to speak to John Mleczec, who still as far as I know works for TVR. Despite his answering my original query in about 30 seconds (it concerned Grahamw48's Tasmin, the ex-demo car), we spent almost 2 hours on the phone talking wedges. This from a guy who has never even owned a TVR.
I have since met an acquaintance of my father, who also still works for TVR. He has also provided many snippets of info and anecdotes from the factory (such as Beckham's Cerbera having 'Man. City' and suchlike scrawled all over it before it was sprayed).
Now time, I find, dulls the memory, and I forget things I used to know. So when folk come on here (this wondrous new communications medium) and ask for HELP and I try to assist, occasionally I make errors, and am not too proud to be corrected by others who have more accurate info.
Steve Heath, in his infinite wisdom, also thought to compile whole books of information, that folks wishing to maintain their own vehicles might have a ready supply of technical data, without recourse to a pile of Haynes manuals. Admittedly he does it for money, an information prostitute if you will.
Once you get outside the realms of hard facts, of course, you get opinions. Everyone has one; not everyone gets the facts relating to that opinion right (for instance, everyone thinks a or b or c about the war in Iraq, but how many research the background to the conflict before forming their opinion?).
Here we have Firefox, requesting facts. Evidently those with the facts either are NOT HERE or CAN'T RECALL. So we are left with the OPINIONS of those who are here, as to what the facts MAY BE.
Nobody, to my mind, is claiming to be an expert. Those who may be held to be experts are admitting they DON'T KNOW or CAN'T RECALL.
I have to wonder whether Firefox would get quite so wound up if he was to, say, ask the time on here.
Some of us might look at our watches. Some might use the PC clock. Some may even resort to looking out of the window and estimating by the amount of daylight.
One or two might even deign to 'waste' their lives coming up with some witty quip, directly or indirectly related to time or the measurement thereof. None of which would change the facts.
I don't wear a watch, my taskbar is hidden and it's dark outside. Leaving aside any witty quips, I may now find myself unwilling to speculate on the time for fear that Firefox would rip off my head and sh!t down my neck.
Based on his responses here, I WOULD also find myself unwilling to leave the room in search of a timepiece that might provide the answer he seeks, far less open my voluminous file of TVR Wedge information to advise him which replacement component may be needed when his TVR, of whatever provenance, breaks, which it undoubtedly will at some stage.
Any suggestion I made regarding paperwork errors was of course pure speculation; I didn't know what factory papers he holds giving him the hard facts he craves. I'd have thought that, armed with those facts, he would not need to ask elsewhere, for is the factory not the authority on the products that leave it?
Finally, Firefox appears to have PistonHeads and Wedgepages mixed up in one of his recent missives. He refers to 'TVRwedgepages subscribers' though I suspect he was actually aiming the comment at PistonHeads users. As for the actual (Mike Bressington) Wedge Pages, I find that I am a CONTRIBUTOR and Firefox isn't. He is, however, welcome to read my submissions thereon, and if he can find any technical error I or Mike Bressington will gladly amend it.
Some of us give, rather than just take.
Ian
>> Edited by wedg1e on Saturday 16th October 21:54
Then the internet came along and suddenly there was a whole new world of contacts and information open to us.
In my early days with my Tasmin, I would write a letter into 'Sprint'. It would be published, and perhaps a month later I could read a reply in the next issue. If I allowed my phone number to be published, I may even get a call from someone who could tell me exactly what I wanted to know.
In such fashion did I get to speak to John Mleczec, who still as far as I know works for TVR. Despite his answering my original query in about 30 seconds (it concerned Grahamw48's Tasmin, the ex-demo car), we spent almost 2 hours on the phone talking wedges. This from a guy who has never even owned a TVR.
I have since met an acquaintance of my father, who also still works for TVR. He has also provided many snippets of info and anecdotes from the factory (such as Beckham's Cerbera having 'Man. City' and suchlike scrawled all over it before it was sprayed).
Now time, I find, dulls the memory, and I forget things I used to know. So when folk come on here (this wondrous new communications medium) and ask for HELP and I try to assist, occasionally I make errors, and am not too proud to be corrected by others who have more accurate info.
Steve Heath, in his infinite wisdom, also thought to compile whole books of information, that folks wishing to maintain their own vehicles might have a ready supply of technical data, without recourse to a pile of Haynes manuals. Admittedly he does it for money, an information prostitute if you will.
Once you get outside the realms of hard facts, of course, you get opinions. Everyone has one; not everyone gets the facts relating to that opinion right (for instance, everyone thinks a or b or c about the war in Iraq, but how many research the background to the conflict before forming their opinion?).
Here we have Firefox, requesting facts. Evidently those with the facts either are NOT HERE or CAN'T RECALL. So we are left with the OPINIONS of those who are here, as to what the facts MAY BE.
Nobody, to my mind, is claiming to be an expert. Those who may be held to be experts are admitting they DON'T KNOW or CAN'T RECALL.
I have to wonder whether Firefox would get quite so wound up if he was to, say, ask the time on here.
Some of us might look at our watches. Some might use the PC clock. Some may even resort to looking out of the window and estimating by the amount of daylight.
One or two might even deign to 'waste' their lives coming up with some witty quip, directly or indirectly related to time or the measurement thereof. None of which would change the facts.
I don't wear a watch, my taskbar is hidden and it's dark outside. Leaving aside any witty quips, I may now find myself unwilling to speculate on the time for fear that Firefox would rip off my head and sh!t down my neck.
Based on his responses here, I WOULD also find myself unwilling to leave the room in search of a timepiece that might provide the answer he seeks, far less open my voluminous file of TVR Wedge information to advise him which replacement component may be needed when his TVR, of whatever provenance, breaks, which it undoubtedly will at some stage.
Any suggestion I made regarding paperwork errors was of course pure speculation; I didn't know what factory papers he holds giving him the hard facts he craves. I'd have thought that, armed with those facts, he would not need to ask elsewhere, for is the factory not the authority on the products that leave it?
Finally, Firefox appears to have PistonHeads and Wedgepages mixed up in one of his recent missives. He refers to 'TVRwedgepages subscribers' though I suspect he was actually aiming the comment at PistonHeads users. As for the actual (Mike Bressington) Wedge Pages, I find that I am a CONTRIBUTOR and Firefox isn't. He is, however, welcome to read my submissions thereon, and if he can find any technical error I or Mike Bressington will gladly amend it.
Some of us give, rather than just take.
Ian
>> Edited by wedg1e on Saturday 16th October 21:54
Hi Ian,
John Mleczek still works at the factory and runs the TVRCC Blackpool region, unfortunately we have not managed to get him to join the 21st century and buy a computer so not a lot of chance of getting him on Pistonheads yet. As I am sure you know his dad 'Joe the Pole' started at the factory when there was only a handful of people there. For a while Johns son worked there so there were three generations of Mleczek working at TVR.
Cheers
Richard
John Mleczek still works at the factory and runs the TVRCC Blackpool region, unfortunately we have not managed to get him to join the 21st century and buy a computer so not a lot of chance of getting him on Pistonheads yet. As I am sure you know his dad 'Joe the Pole' started at the factory when there was only a handful of people there. For a while Johns son worked there so there were three generations of Mleczek working at TVR.
Cheers
Richard
I may need my specs to read that one 
Sorry, but being a bit dim, what is the knob? I use one on occasion and it is very handy. Just wondering if it is the same. In my experience it can be pulled and pushed. Or twisted. I twisted a knob once and the door opened. I pulled a knob and a door bell rang. I think we should define knobs.
richard sails said:
Second; although JJ is not actually a member of the TVRCC, in the spirit of good will between fellow TVR owners, >> Edited by richard sails on Saturday 16th October 01:20
Not being funny JJ but don't you think it would be a good idea to pay your £30 like the rest of us?
Personally I think you should either just get on and enjoy your car as it is and accept that others will not accept that it is a SEAC, re-body it with a pukka SEAC body or flog it and buy a real one.
Just my two pennies worth,
Mick
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