Aerodynamics - Splitters and Wings
Discussion
I'll be fitting a front splitter, canards and a GT wing to the R32 for Fiona to use in TimeAttack next year.
I'm after a bit of info/help on angles for the Cannards in particular. Can anyone give a good angle to fit them at.... i.e most downforce, least drag? I know this is very dependant on air flow paths round the front of the car, and canard shape etc.... but if someone knows something I dont, I'd appreciate the help LOL
Canards
small and a larger set, 1 each per side.
The rear spoiler - I can adjust the fin angle.... and play about with oil droplets on the wing to see where the oil is going.
Splitter - Aiming to have it poking out past the front bumper by about 70mm. Sound ok? I think any further would prob give too much downforce/drag etc
I'm after a bit of info/help on angles for the Cannards in particular. Can anyone give a good angle to fit them at.... i.e most downforce, least drag? I know this is very dependant on air flow paths round the front of the car, and canard shape etc.... but if someone knows something I dont, I'd appreciate the help LOL
Canards
small and a larger set, 1 each per side.
The rear spoiler - I can adjust the fin angle.... and play about with oil droplets on the wing to see where the oil is going.
Splitter - Aiming to have it poking out past the front bumper by about 70mm. Sound ok? I think any further would prob give too much downforce/drag etc
Hi
The optimum angle depends on the profile of the wing, so with out the actual data it s a bit of trail and error, best book I have on the subject is katz, Simon McBeath is a bit more focused on single seaters. If you get it right you need to alter your brake basis and stiffen the springs,and there are some good articles on DIY aero testing.
But haven seen the Skyline at KH there is more you can do other than botl on aero to condition the airflow
Jason
The optimum angle depends on the profile of the wing, so with out the actual data it s a bit of trail and error, best book I have on the subject is katz, Simon McBeath is a bit more focused on single seaters. If you get it right you need to alter your brake basis and stiffen the springs,and there are some good articles on DIY aero testing.
But haven seen the Skyline at KH there is more you can do other than botl on aero to condition the airflow
Jason
Edited by e21jason on Tuesday 23 December 12:10
such as?
Its getting a fair bit more power and losing more weight this winter....
It was lapping in high 58's in the summer with just short of 400bhp and around 1400kg.
I'm aware we need a fair bit more adjustabilty in the front castor/camber - thats on the list to do too.
A new or even just new plates in the rear LSD too LOL
The list is actually endless :/
Its getting a fair bit more power and losing more weight this winter....
It was lapping in high 58's in the summer with just short of 400bhp and around 1400kg.
I'm aware we need a fair bit more adjustabilty in the front castor/camber - thats on the list to do too.
A new or even just new plates in the rear LSD too LOL
The list is actually endless :/
Mods like this have the potential to change the handling balance of the car at high speed but on their own are not going to change the total grip significantly. So if you have high speed handling problems this sort of thing can be useful. The crucial thing is to know what the handling problems are and address those, rather than change things and see what happens iyswim.
I don't know what your high speed handling is like, but it seems typical for rear end lift to promote high speed oversteer. Be cautious about the front splitter. It's quite easy to generate enough downforce on a splitter to change the balance of the car significantly, and usually as you increase the front downforce it actually makes the rear end lift worse both factors encouraging high speed oversteer. Fine if you're tackling an understeer problem, but otherwise it could get you into trouble unless you're also taking steps to reduce the rear end lift.
I don't know what your high speed handling is like, but it seems typical for rear end lift to promote high speed oversteer. Be cautious about the front splitter. It's quite easy to generate enough downforce on a splitter to change the balance of the car significantly, and usually as you increase the front downforce it actually makes the rear end lift worse both factors encouraging high speed oversteer. Fine if you're tackling an understeer problem, but otherwise it could get you into trouble unless you're also taking steps to reduce the rear end lift.
Adam Kindness said:
KH, Donington, Silverstone, Oulton, Brands and Snetterton.
The car will have about 550bhp, and hopefully just short of 1300kg.
I suppose then it would depend the circuit, % of fast corners, % of slow corners, more downforce less top end etc. Was that 58's at knockhill? Single seater aerodynamics, like someone already mentioned, and adjustability would be the areas to look at for inspiration or more accuratly, calculations. One will have an effect on the other, but could be dialed out with a change to something else, suspension set-up etc. The car will have about 550bhp, and hopefully just short of 1300kg.
Edited by sam919 on Tuesday 23 December 12:07
Hi
On a saloon car it is easy to get front down force with a splitter, the canards you have are anti dive planes basically to keep the nose up during braking as the effect of the front splitter can be very sensitive to ride height, The easy way for rear down force is a big 6” spoiler as per nascar but it will create a load of drag.
A rear wing works if it is in clear air and has decent end plates to ensure you get the flow over it.
For the skyline, have you ducted the intercooler and rad from intake to discharge, cleaned up the under side of the car, drop the skirts etc to make a tunnel, so more air goes over the car than over, add a rear diffuser. I image the regs for Time attack are quite liberal so creating a full tunnel on the car would be possible.
A bit of background reading
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/tech/0607_sccp_a...
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/tech/0610sccp_au...
Jason
On a saloon car it is easy to get front down force with a splitter, the canards you have are anti dive planes basically to keep the nose up during braking as the effect of the front splitter can be very sensitive to ride height, The easy way for rear down force is a big 6” spoiler as per nascar but it will create a load of drag.
A rear wing works if it is in clear air and has decent end plates to ensure you get the flow over it.
For the skyline, have you ducted the intercooler and rad from intake to discharge, cleaned up the under side of the car, drop the skirts etc to make a tunnel, so more air goes over the car than over, add a rear diffuser. I image the regs for Time attack are quite liberal so creating a full tunnel on the car would be possible.
A bit of background reading
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/tech/0607_sccp_a...
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/tech/0610sccp_au...
Jason
Edited by e21jason on Tuesday 23 December 12:37
Edited by e21jason on Tuesday 23 December 12:42
flat bottoming it isnt an easy task.... i've thought about it, but a fair amount hangs down (diffs, exhausts etc) so a lot of work would be involved.
Adding a fuel cell and flatbottoming the rear with a diffuser is on the cards though... but then we'd really need the middle flat to complete it.
The car does suffer a bit on power with high speed oversteer.
understeer at the moment was largely dependant on tyres... we need more castor/camber to get the tyres working better as they getting the outside edges too hot.
Adding a fuel cell and flatbottoming the rear with a diffuser is on the cards though... but then we'd really need the middle flat to complete it.
The car does suffer a bit on power with high speed oversteer.
understeer at the moment was largely dependant on tyres... we need more castor/camber to get the tyres working better as they getting the outside edges too hot.
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