Doune hill climb 19/20-04-08, the aftermath...
Discussion
IMHO - There is nothing to stop the SHCC from extracting the times for competitors, who had their classes changed by the event organisers, and allocating their championship points based on their championship accepted class.
This already happens at events with multiple championships which have slightly different class structures, and at National rounds where some Scottish competitors are also entered in the British Championship (usually sprints).
This already happens at events with multiple championships which have slightly different class structures, and at National rounds where some Scottish competitors are also entered in the British Championship (usually sprints).
Exactly what has been done Mr A.
As for me, I've competed in my last Doune while certain personnel continue to officiate at the event - and I do not refer to scrutineers. A great pity - I've always said if I could only do one event a year it would be Doune, but after today I join the ranks of marshalls and other drivers who will vote with their feet.
As for me, I've competed in my last Doune while certain personnel continue to officiate at the event - and I do not refer to scrutineers. A great pity - I've always said if I could only do one event a year it would be Doune, but after today I join the ranks of marshalls and other drivers who will vote with their feet.
Broomsticklady said:
I've competed in my last Doune while certain personnel continue to officiate at the event - and I do not refer to scrutineers.
I take it your talking about a certain Mr ********...? Edited by D-Speed on Sunday 20th April 21:58
Edited by PetrolTed on Monday 21st April 10:54
I have to admit is was a bit annoying not having clocks at the top of hill, but otherwise it was a well run weekend - 3 practices on both days and a track that was in very good condition.Thank you to LCC for getting it in such good condition.
I have to say i am getting very disillusioned with the very personnel criticisms that are going on between different championships at the moment, one of the attractions of hillclimbing and sprinting was that is was always a very friendly sport. The problem as i understand it is with the MSA and not individuals within the MSA which is what appears to be bring infered in a number of places at the moment.I well remember as does Broomsticklady when you had to drive your road car to events, trailers were not allowed and since then road cars seem to have gotten even further away from road cars each year, and if you take a simple view i assume this is what the MSA wants to restore.When we are continaully threatend with losing venues to enjoy our sport and a few people complaining about noise can close down a venue it seems very strange to me that we are expending a lot of energy on in fighting instead of helping each other and letting everyone enjoy and get the most from either individial events or if that way inclined a full championship depending on your personnel circumstances, whichever one that may be. It is probably time for the mSA to rethink a number of classes and regulations within the Blue Book as cars and technology move on. On a personnel note i would like a class for 2wd cars with some basic mods that would allow the likes of the Manta,Sunbeam etc to compete together within having to stick to period mods and win a class to guessing your time up the hill, but i am sure each competitor would have his/her ideal class and several hundred classes would never be a practical proposition.I am sure anyone who competes to win championships will probaby find faults in my personnel rant but for someone whose aim is to have fun,beat their previous best times and pick out other cars to compete with, i hope we can drop all the personnel criticisms and get on with making the most of the MSA requirements in what will be a confusing year and get back to the friendly atmosphere in 2009.
I have to say i am getting very disillusioned with the very personnel criticisms that are going on between different championships at the moment, one of the attractions of hillclimbing and sprinting was that is was always a very friendly sport. The problem as i understand it is with the MSA and not individuals within the MSA which is what appears to be bring infered in a number of places at the moment.I well remember as does Broomsticklady when you had to drive your road car to events, trailers were not allowed and since then road cars seem to have gotten even further away from road cars each year, and if you take a simple view i assume this is what the MSA wants to restore.When we are continaully threatend with losing venues to enjoy our sport and a few people complaining about noise can close down a venue it seems very strange to me that we are expending a lot of energy on in fighting instead of helping each other and letting everyone enjoy and get the most from either individial events or if that way inclined a full championship depending on your personnel circumstances, whichever one that may be. It is probably time for the mSA to rethink a number of classes and regulations within the Blue Book as cars and technology move on. On a personnel note i would like a class for 2wd cars with some basic mods that would allow the likes of the Manta,Sunbeam etc to compete together within having to stick to period mods and win a class to guessing your time up the hill, but i am sure each competitor would have his/her ideal class and several hundred classes would never be a practical proposition.I am sure anyone who competes to win championships will probaby find faults in my personnel rant but for someone whose aim is to have fun,beat their previous best times and pick out other cars to compete with, i hope we can drop all the personnel criticisms and get on with making the most of the MSA requirements in what will be a confusing year and get back to the friendly atmosphere in 2009.
Andy - I too would so love to just be able to go to an event and have fun.
Unfortunately, when you get involved in the administrative side of things - and if people didn't then there wouldn't be events et al for people like you and I to go and have fun at - then you realise jusy how many people with personal agendas there are out there busy working behind the scenes. Most people with these agendas have the sense to keep their personal agendas hidden in public, but sometimes arrogance outs, and they let things seep over into the public forum - as happened this weekend.
For example, did you know that David and I have had our entries to the HSC turned down as 'inappropriate'? This is going to appeal at the MSA and so I will comment no further on possible links between the happenings, but there is so much going on behind the scenes you are not / do not wish to be aware of.
If you are able, then please carry on enjoying yourself while there are still people out there who are prepared to go through the hoops and loops to enable you to do so - someday maybe soon, we may just get fed up.
Unfortunately, when you get involved in the administrative side of things - and if people didn't then there wouldn't be events et al for people like you and I to go and have fun at - then you realise jusy how many people with personal agendas there are out there busy working behind the scenes. Most people with these agendas have the sense to keep their personal agendas hidden in public, but sometimes arrogance outs, and they let things seep over into the public forum - as happened this weekend.
For example, did you know that David and I have had our entries to the HSC turned down as 'inappropriate'? This is going to appeal at the MSA and so I will comment no further on possible links between the happenings, but there is so much going on behind the scenes you are not / do not wish to be aware of.
If you are able, then please carry on enjoying yourself while there are still people out there who are prepared to go through the hoops and loops to enable you to do so - someday maybe soon, we may just get fed up.
Nina,
I do and always have appreciated the people behind the scenes who make it possible for all the drivers to enjoy these events, and yes if the hassle and hoops got too much, combined with all the personnel time you put in , i would understand if you didn't want to do it anymore and that applies to anyone who organises any club or championship. And no i don't know everything that is going on as you point out so the response certainly wasn't meant to be a critism of anyone.
I do and always have appreciated the people behind the scenes who make it possible for all the drivers to enjoy these events, and yes if the hassle and hoops got too much, combined with all the personnel time you put in , i would understand if you didn't want to do it anymore and that applies to anyone who organises any club or championship. And no i don't know everything that is going on as you point out so the response certainly wasn't meant to be a critism of anyone.
I cant believe my above post was edited to hide the perpetrator of the past weekend hassle at Doune! 
Do yourselves & the unmentionables have a history of
or something?
Broomsticklady said:
For example, did you know that David and I have had our entries to the HSC turned down as 'inappropriate'? This is going to appeal at the MSA and so I will comment no further on possible links between the happenings, but there is so much going on behind the scenes you are not / do not wish to be aware of.
I find that unacceptable Nina, who do they think they are?Do yourselves & the unmentionables have a history of
or something?Edited by D-Speed on Monday 21st April 13:01
D-Speed said:
I cant believe my above post was edited.....
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Well, we had good weather - a first for Doune in my short history of competing.
5 runs each day, the track was excellent - well done to all at LCC who put in the effort to get the venue ready - even the paddock grass was cut!
I won't comment on the issues above regarding certain personalities as I don't know the whole story.
On another note - the timing was very questionable. If one competitor withdrew his time as he felt it wasn't realistic, then surely all the results should be in question?
A lack of clocks was a real disappointment, but I know the timekeepers and other officials worked hard to try and get it all up and running. Let's hope its sorted for June.
A good start to the Hillclimb season.
Steve
5 runs each day, the track was excellent - well done to all at LCC who put in the effort to get the venue ready - even the paddock grass was cut!
I won't comment on the issues above regarding certain personalities as I don't know the whole story.
On another note - the timing was very questionable. If one competitor withdrew his time as he felt it wasn't realistic, then surely all the results should be in question?
A lack of clocks was a real disappointment, but I know the timekeepers and other officials worked hard to try and get it all up and running. Let's hope its sorted for June.
A good start to the Hillclimb season.
Steve
Certainly wasn't 'a shambles' although the lack of visible times was pretty poor, if the new timing system isn't ready . . . use the old one ? ;-) . . . Can't comment on all the political games as both sides of the story have yet to emerge . . . but regardless it sounds like something that should probably be discussed privately between those involved rather than in a public forum like this.
As for the accuracy of the timing system, I had also heard that a competitor had questioned the times as being abnormal at the end of Sunday . . . see previous comment about new timing gear . . .
Fd
As for the accuracy of the timing system, I had also heard that a competitor had questioned the times as being abnormal at the end of Sunday . . . see previous comment about new timing gear . . .
Fd
Had a great weekend, good to be back on the hills!
(In the dry!)
Shame that there has been bits and bobs of bad banter flying around the paddock.
Having grown up coming to the hillclimbing things have changed every year, it would be boring if it didn't. I have seen loads of people and cars come and go. I used to have to sit shotgun in the Caterham to and from every event and enjoyed every minute of it, as did its owner! 15 years later the car, with the addition of another 100bhp perhaps and different rubber it is exactly the same and will happily drive to any of the hills. Part of the fun in my opinion.
Unfortunetly through time cars have been developed to the extent that some of them wouldn't be very comfortable to drive to the events but the rules have allowed that to happen.
Thats the cars owners own decision to have let that happen.
Roll on F'Burn....this weather is getting wasted sitting at work!!
(In the dry!)Shame that there has been bits and bobs of bad banter flying around the paddock.
Having grown up coming to the hillclimbing things have changed every year, it would be boring if it didn't. I have seen loads of people and cars come and go. I used to have to sit shotgun in the Caterham to and from every event and enjoyed every minute of it, as did its owner! 15 years later the car, with the addition of another 100bhp perhaps and different rubber it is exactly the same and will happily drive to any of the hills. Part of the fun in my opinion.
Unfortunetly through time cars have been developed to the extent that some of them wouldn't be very comfortable to drive to the events but the rules have allowed that to happen.
Thats the cars owners own decision to have let that happen.
Roll on F'Burn....this weather is getting wasted sitting at work!!
Edited by CraigNicol on Monday 21st April 17:09
I do not have a problem with the regulations being changed, as long as we get a reasonable amount of notice.
What I do have a problem with is LCC deciding to change the rules after 1st practice. I was scrutineered on Saturday morning and told my car was fine, then after 1st practice I was told by the same scrutineer that the CoC had told him to issue me with a non-compliance report because my Mk2 Fiesta was fitted with a Zetec engine.
The rules for the championship clearly state that different engines can be fitted, and the regulations for Doune say that cars must comply with the regulations for the championship, but the CoC decided that the MSA blue book rules must be adhered to. (He claimed that the MSA had threatened to not issue LCC permits for East Fortune and future Doune events if the did not run the event to blue book rules.)
The lack of clocks was a joke, and the timing seemed dodgy. (The rumour was that LCC was testing a new system for use at East Fortune) I didnt pay £150 entry fee to be used as a guinea pig for LCCs "more important" meetings.
I will no doubt go back to Doune (if my entry is accepted) because I love the track, but the issues spoiled this weekends event for me. I only compete for fun, if it is not fun what is the point?
What I do have a problem with is LCC deciding to change the rules after 1st practice. I was scrutineered on Saturday morning and told my car was fine, then after 1st practice I was told by the same scrutineer that the CoC had told him to issue me with a non-compliance report because my Mk2 Fiesta was fitted with a Zetec engine.
The rules for the championship clearly state that different engines can be fitted, and the regulations for Doune say that cars must comply with the regulations for the championship, but the CoC decided that the MSA blue book rules must be adhered to. (He claimed that the MSA had threatened to not issue LCC permits for East Fortune and future Doune events if the did not run the event to blue book rules.)
The lack of clocks was a joke, and the timing seemed dodgy. (The rumour was that LCC was testing a new system for use at East Fortune) I didnt pay £150 entry fee to be used as a guinea pig for LCCs "more important" meetings.
I will no doubt go back to Doune (if my entry is accepted) because I love the track, but the issues spoiled this weekends event for me. I only compete for fun, if it is not fun what is the point?
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