Cacked ma pants !

[tpivette]

Went and picked up my Firebird last night(it was getting partial respray), got dropped off by my mate in his C5 vette.

Both of us are coming home and as it does the speed starts rising.
Coming around the big roundabout at Kinross services that feeds the southbound m90 I pick the speed up until i can just feel the tyres start to slip.
As the slip road down onto the m90 straightens out, i give it the full loud pedal. The auto box kicks down and it feels like the rear end steps out three feet. Now the firebird is bone stock suspension wise and i get in the yank equivalent of a tank slapper. I catch the rear one way and it flicks the other way, i catch that and it just fishtails the other. The C5 owner backed off real quick I can tell you.
Then I notice its -4 degrees and snow is starting to fall. All i could think was I have just paid hunners for a rear respray and I'm gonna ruin it. Then more by luck than skill i get it going straight again but only after about 6 fishtails. My elbows were flying all over the place.
Is there a proven method for getting out of a fishtailing tankslapper that works ? I have no ABS or other driver aids.

[D-Speed]

tpivette said:

Is there a proven method for getting out of a fishtailing tankslapper that works ? I have no ABS or other driver aids.

A lucky escape indeed!

I noticed the most common thing that happens in oversteery moments is drivers dont wind off the opposite lock quick enough when the back end comes back into line and thats what makes the pendulum affect start.

Basicly you need to have the front wheels pointing straight ahead when the rear wheels come into line with the front and not still steering into the slide.

Also you dont really want to snap the throttle shut just come off it gradually.

[rpa.janwell]

Apart from not going into one in the first place - not much!!

My mate has a Firebird - I'll ask him to drop you a line.

[graham@edinburgh]

Let go and let the car sort itself out.

(Although this does depend somewhat on the car concerned )

[TVR man]

Is there not a way where you just put everything you have onto the brakes and this stops oversteer and keeps you pointing the right way?

[alicrozier]

...with the left foot while keeping the power on with the right.
Shoud regain grip at the rear while sliding the locked up fronts straight.

WARNING only for rwd cars and best practiced in wide open spaces...

[robinlarge]

Ha! Well yes you would get a tank slapper out of it!


With enough power you can develop the art of the power slide - forget correcting and forget braking - you only get a tank slapper when you regain (partially) the traction.

I used to drive mine over in Oslo - through three winters - I just used to carry alot more chewing gum - gives you something to bite down on!!

Currently my 95 WRS6 Firebird is at 550 rwbhp and this week driving on studded winter tyres (but dont tell the Aberdeen traffic gestapo!)

At least this set up gets you alot of practice in dealing with the rear end stepping out.

Its a blast!!

[VetteG]

For this (and other) reason I tend not to drive the vette much in the winter. Tank slappers aside it is good fun to get the back end hanging out though!

G

[tpivette]

To compensate for my lack of talent I think I need a few tweaks; i have ordered

a full koni sport yellow kit.
eibach sportline springs.
last night i fitted 255 / 40 / 17s rather than than the 215/15 it was on
I am trying to fabricate my own 1/2x1/2 rod ended panhard bar and strut brace.
sub frame connectors and lower control arms to follow in a few months.

I might also try a track day or two or maybe even a course, any recommendations ?
I did once go upto knockhill with the intention of doing a few laps but when i saw the calibre of cars waiting in the fire up queue and heard some of the comments from the burberry capped "yoof" element i decided against it.
Basically I didnt fancy a Cavalier sri with no interior being stuck up my arse. In fairness that was a good few years ago now and it may be completely different now.

I just dont know if i would be lucky enough to get away with that again, might see if my luck continues with the euro lottery. if it does the old girl will be getting this

www.pistonheads.com/sales/118972.htm

RobinLarge is that the silver and purple one that was in autotrader recently ?
how does it go, is it set up for road or drag ?

I note from the wide variety of replies that this maybe should be explored further.

Edited by tpivette on Friday 9th February 07:39

[fugster]

I drive a C5 vette and when this happens I take my hands off the wheel and scream like a girl!!!!!!!!!

[tpivette]

Ok so far I:

1. let go the steering wheel BUT maybe unwind the lock faster OR perhaps just forget about steering and power it out.

2. Dont hit the brakes OR left foot brake it OR maybe keep power on and brake at the same time.

3. scream like a girl.

I think i will concentrate on the last one...... :-O

[fugster]

No idea if this still works, this was me trying to get the vette sliding, apologies this was before the removal of the quiet exhaust!! if you listen carefully think you can hear the scream

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/8a

[graham@edinburgh]

fugster said:

this was before the removal of the quiet exhaust!!

Sounds fantastic

[Size Nine Elm]

tpivette said:

Then I notice its -4 degrees and snow is starting to fall.
...
As the slip road down onto the m90 straightens out, i give it the full loud pedal.

Selective quoting, but...

When driving a powerful RWD car in low grip conditions, delicate throttle control is order of the day.

The best way to get out of a tank slapper is not to get into one in the first place.

Been there, done that...

[Billy_rfc]

Hit the clutch! Kills the slide instantly. Unless you want to power slide, this is the best way to save a bit of rear out action.

[sstein]

If your fishtailing, could it not be because you are winding off too much lock after you catch the slide? I was always told to keep hands at 10 to 2 then to wind off the lock just straighten your arms again. Stops you from over correcting it.

Luckily I've never had this happen in any major way on the road, so don't know if I would have the skill / luck to catch it!


-

Stuart

[robinlarge]

RobinLarge is that the silver and purple one that was in autotrader recently ?
how does it go, is it set up for road or drag ?

I note from the wide variety of replies that this maybe should be explored further.

Edited by tpivette on Friday 9th February 07:39

[/quote]

Yes thats the one that was for sale - I had my eye on something else and it was either the Humer or the 'Bird.
Thankfully the Hummer went and I got to keep the WSR6. She is a real wild child. The add in Autotrader only listed about half the goodies onboard.
A little unpredictable in the cold and snowy stuff - she hangs onto the MAF for fuelling up to 2500 and then swtches to the MAP to acountfor the supercharger - it should be a smooth transition but with a semi race cam and cold wet air - it isnt smooth at all - you get a choice - Stall or spin - shes fine after about 10 miles though!!
Good practice for my next toy though - watch these pages!

[robinlarge]

As for catching a Pontiac once she lets go - you have no chance to catch the steering - there just isnt enough feel in the steering to even know where straight ahead is - the only way to balance it is to use back end drift and drive through it.
Alot depends on tyres too - some are more predictable than others.
I had Pirelli p6000 in a 17 inch rim at 355/35's - they worked superbly - lovely controlled slide - but as they arent available in UK I went for Zero Nero next instead - very unpredictable indeed. Not a nice experience.

I for one want to go and expereince a real driving day on a skid pan - something I have always wanted to do!!

[tpivette]

robinlarge

you dont still have the original lt1 camshaft do you ? i am after one for a project.

[tpivette]

i fitted some 255s all round and had one short drive in the wet, there is a huge difference in turn in and poise mid corner. Hopefully in afew weeks i should have the eibachs and konis on it as well. just trying to find some UK supplier for poly suspension bushes......