State of glasgow roads.

[fendertele]

I know the surplus is getting spent :P.. as every road in and out of Glasgow is shut as is the diverted roads leading to a second diversion for the original diversion lol .. and to get anywhere one must take every backroad for the next month or so... but what about all those pots holes!! the one on Kilmarnock road at the V lights staying on Kilmarnock road could take yer wheel right off and its been there for about a month.

... the roads getting dug up and resurfaced were half decent in the weeks leading up to them closing it... yet theres pot holes still not filled in some places for over a month..

Wonder how many folk actually put claims in vs just leave it

[S2red]

Have made a few successful ones but am being blanked by Scottish transerv for M8

They claim no faults on M8 through Glasgow could cause tyre damage!

[Chamon_Lee]

state of the roads drive me up the bloody wall. I've just resulted in calling them and giving them abuse. I literally blame all of them I don't care if they "only work for the company or council" they are part of the bullst!

I dont even care if potholes get filled, it might as well get filled with rice krispies as it bursts open within any slight move in temp. Its utterly pathetic and shameful that they think its ok.

As you mentioned the claims process is so shockingly difficult - they then have these made up bullst rules that apparently if they have checked it as part of their routine then you can't claim.

Heres an idea - if my car is damaged you pay for it. roads shouldn't have potholes in them. Some parts of glasgow have got roads layed down over 20 years ago (driven on them all the time) yet ive never seen a pothole on them. Seems to be the new stuff layed down or redone recently just falls to bits.

[PaulD86]

Chamon_Lee said:

state of the roads drive me up the bloody wall. I've just resulted in calling them and giving them abuse. I literally blame all of them I don't care if they "only work for the company or council" they are part of the bullst!

I dont even care if potholes get filled, it might as well get filled with rice krispies as it bursts open within any slight move in temp. Its utterly pathetic and shameful that they think its ok.

As you mentioned the claims process is so shockingly difficult - they then have these made up bullst rules that apparently if they have checked it as part of their routine then you can't claim.

Heres an idea - if my car is damaged you pay for it. roads shouldn't have potholes in them. Some parts of glasgow have got roads layed down over 20 years ago (driven on them all the time) yet ive never seen a pothole on them. Seems to be the new stuff layed down or redone recently just falls to bits.

Right, as someone who works in a local authority in a roads related capacity I think I might cover a few points here

If you are calling up staff and giving abuse then you are an unhelpful moron and YOU are part of the problem. Due to successive government cuts staff are stretched like never before and listening to you give abuse is not a productive use of their time. Or, for that matter, yours.

One of the most important things that people often don't realise is that if you find a pothole it is a good idea to report it. All councils have a mechanism for doing this. Roads in inspected for safety defects at set intervals. These vary from authority to authority (I won't go into why here as this is a complex topic). As a rule the more strategic roads are inspected more often and the likes of small residential roads are inspected least often. Now between inspections it is very possible that defects will arise. Inevitable, actually. So the local authority need told about these. Unless you want to double the council tax you pay then it will not be possible for a council employee to check every road every day. Not even close. This is accepted legally.

Pothole repairs fail. There is an inevitability to this as well unfortunately. Now there are many different ways to fill them and some are better than others and likewise some authorities make a much better job than others of doing this. I have access to some stats for Glasgow on this topic but it would not be my place to comment on them. However, what people don't realise is that a road needs to be sealed. Once the surface is broken the seal is gone and water gets in an undermines the road. Filling a pothole is as much about resealing the road as filling the hole. As anyone who has ever repaired anything will know, it's never quite the same after. I'm not suggesting bad repairs aren't done but sometimes people lose sight of reality on this topic. The other thing that people very seldom realise is the problem with temperatures going above and below freezing, something that is devastating for roads. And the bit few know is that the road temperature can often be considerably lower than the air temp so while it might only have been 3 degrees overnight, the road may have been at -2. This is why gritting is done despite temperatures not going below zero at times.

Now, your last paragraph is really just ignorance and shows a total lack of understanding of roads. Fair enough, it's not your area of expertise. However, as an overview, the factors that determine how long a road lasts are plentiful. Did you know that bus lanes and stops are often laid with modified bitumen as the vibration from buses, as well as heat, puts a large stress on the asphalt? The acceleration and deceleration in the same spots repeatedly also has a big effect. Your assertion that roads laid now are worse than those of 20 years ago is just incorrect. I could write a long explanation on why some roads last better than others but I don't really have the time nor inclination. But you can rest assured that those who deal with such matters thankfully know an awful lot more about them than you. Despite what you may like to think.

Ultimately though there are a great many problems with roads across the UK. Funding is the primary reason. When a council is asked if they want to shut the unit that helps disabled kids or the elderly or maybe cut teacher numbers or close a swimming pool or if they'd rather take money from the roads budget it is pretty obvious to those with a functioning brain why roads will be the service that takes the hit. But we are where we are and there is little point going into the politics of how various governments have chosen to spend or save money that they did or did not have in the first place.

But if you want to see things improve then the best thing you can do is to go online and report the potholes to the council. They may not get fixed quickly, but equally they may. But the authority can't fix what it doesn't know about. And for the record I am not suggesting for a moment that the various roads departments are doing an especially good job - some are, some aren't - but I can categorically tell you that calling up with abuse is only making things worse. Think about it next time.

[Heidfirst]

PaulD86 said:

Pothole repairs fail. There is an inevitability to this as well unfortunately. Now there are many different ways to fill them and some are better than others and likewise some authorities make a much better job than others of doing this.

As someone who has a little training & experience in path/road repair whoever is doing road repairs at least in my part of Glasgow is doing a far better job than whoever is doing them in Newton Mearns for East Renfrewshire. Not even flat or square even when new there ... :O

[PaulD86]

Heidfirst said:

PaulD86 said:

Pothole repairs fail. There is an inevitability to this as well unfortunately. Now there are many different ways to fill them and some are better than others and likewise some authorities make a much better job than others of doing this.

As someone who has a little training & experience in path/road repair whoever is doing road repairs at least in my part of Glasgow is doing a far better job than whoever is doing them in Newton Mearns for East Renfrewshire. Not even flat or square even when new there ... :O

Without seeing the repairs I couldn't comment much, but often the best patches aren't the most aesthetically pleasing. I'm not saying that's the case with the ones you mention, but we have had complaints about ugly repairs in roads which, granted aren't pretty, but are still sealing the road perfectly over a decade on. It's quite interesting, people don't just want potholes filled, they want a road that looks nice too. I can think of ugly repairs that are perfect to drive over but we get complaints about them as they are ugly. Unfortunately budgets don't exist to repair in a pretty manner. As with most things, it comes down to cost as much as anything else.

[Chamon_Lee]

PaulD86 said:

Chamon_Lee said:

state of the roads drive me up the bloody wall. I've just resulted in calling them and giving them abuse. I literally blame all of them I don't care if they "only work for the company or council" they are part of the bullst!

I dont even care if potholes get filled, it might as well get filled with rice krispies as it bursts open within any slight move in temp. Its utterly pathetic and shameful that they think its ok.

As you mentioned the claims process is so shockingly difficult - they then have these made up bullst rules that apparently if they have checked it as part of their routine then you can't claim.

Heres an idea - if my car is damaged you pay for it. roads shouldn't have potholes in them. Some parts of glasgow have got roads layed down over 20 years ago (driven on them all the time) yet ive never seen a pothole on them. Seems to be the new stuff layed down or redone recently just falls to bits.

Right, as someone who works in a local authority in a roads related capacity I think I might cover a few points here

If you are calling up staff and giving abuse then you are an unhelpful moron and YOU are part of the problem. Due to successive government cuts staff are stretched like never before and listening to you give abuse is not a productive use of their time. Or, for that matter, yours.

One of the most important things that people often don't realise is that if you find a pothole it is a good idea to report it. All councils have a mechanism for doing this. Roads in inspected for safety defects at set intervals. These vary from authority to authority (I won't go into why here as this is a complex topic). As a rule the more strategic roads are inspected more often and the likes of small residential roads are inspected least often. Now between inspections it is very possible that defects will arise. Inevitable, actually. So the local authority need told about these. Unless you want to double the council tax you pay then it will not be possible for a council employee to check every road every day. Not even close. This is accepted legally.

Pothole repairs fail. There is an inevitability to this as well unfortunately. Now there are many different ways to fill them and some are better than others and likewise some authorities make a much better job than others of doing this. I have access to some stats for Glasgow on this topic but it would not be my place to comment on them. However, what people don't realise is that a road needs to be sealed. Once the surface is broken the seal is gone and water gets in an undermines the road. Filling a pothole is as much about resealing the road as filling the hole. As anyone who has ever repaired anything will know, it's never quite the same after. I'm not suggesting bad repairs aren't done but sometimes people lose sight of reality on this topic. The other thing that people very seldom realise is the problem with temperatures going above and below freezing, something that is devastating for roads. And the bit few know is that the road temperature can often be considerably lower than the air temp so while it might only have been 3 degrees overnight, the road may have been at -2. This is why gritting is done despite temperatures not going below zero at times.

Now, your last paragraph is really just ignorance and shows a total lack of understanding of roads. Fair enough, it's not your area of expertise. However, as an overview, the factors that determine how long a road lasts are plentiful. Did you know that bus lanes and stops are often laid with modified bitumen as the vibration from buses, as well as heat, puts a large stress on the asphalt? The acceleration and deceleration in the same spots repeatedly also has a big effect. Your assertion that roads laid now are worse than those of 20 years ago is just incorrect. I could write a long explanation on why some roads last better than others but I don't really have the time nor inclination. But you can rest assured that those who deal with such matters thankfully know an awful lot more about them than you. Despite what you may like to think.

Ultimately though there are a great many problems with roads across the UK. Funding is the primary reason. When a council is asked if they want to shut the unit that helps disabled kids or the elderly or maybe cut teacher numbers or close a swimming pool or if they'd rather take money from the roads budget it is pretty obvious to those with a functioning brain why roads will be the service that takes the hit. But we are where we are and there is little point going into the politics of how various governments have chosen to spend or save money that they did or did not have in the first place.

But if you want to see things improve then the best thing you can do is to go online and report the potholes to the council. They may not get fixed quickly, but equally they may. But the authority can't fix what it doesn't know about. And for the record I am not suggesting for a moment that the various roads departments are doing an especially good job - some are, some aren't - but I can categorically tell you that calling up with abuse is only making things worse. Think about it next time.

Sorry but over the years I have phoned up the attitude of the people I have spoke to (when you can get in touch) is piss poor. You report a pothole or ask when a repair will be done as its 4 month to 1 year still there and there answer is "it will be done when its done" well then your bound to get my back up. I never swear or shout as a matter of principle but I certainly don't sit there and take any rubbish they seem to actually think justifies the poor conditions. A simple is yes we totally agree and are working on it and the plan is for that sectiont to be done on such and such or I am sorry we dont know but we will get to it.

I fully understand your in the know ,I can't argue with that but at the same time you cannot dispute the experience I have had using the same roads for the last 20 years. Without a doubt in my mind the newer stuff is utter tosh. It is common sense temp changes and water ingress is shockingly bad for roads but we have always had those condition changes, nothing new. Some pothole repairs are disgusting and workers are to blame for that just like any trade there is good and bad people.

Funding seems to be the go to answer for all problems we have but I disagree - poor use of funds and poor workmanship is just as much to blame.
oh and keep the childish name calling to yourself

Edited by Chamon_Lee on Friday 29th March 15:51

[Craigie]

I work in Glasgow and do a lot of walking to build up my exercise regime.

I have the "My Council" app on my iphone. Anytime I see a pothole, broken sign etc etc, I report them.

Its simple.

The app uses the phone to find the exact location.
It uses your camera if you want to send a photo(s) with the report.
It has some multi choice questions and then a free writing box for further comments.
You then press send.
It then goes into your faults that you have reported and you get an email with a fault number.

I would say that on average, probably about 75% of the issues are repaired or at least patched within a fortnight.

I actively encourage everyone to download and use this app. No use bleating about this or that if you haven't actually reported it through the proper channels.

And yes, council budgets are being screwed, something has to give!

[DCerebrate]

There is something amiss with the Transerv contract. I regularly travel on the A77 and from Kilmarnock to Stranraer it is a series of moon craters. We have had a stretch near Maybole resurfaced 2 years ago and it famously melted in all of 22 degrees, causing massive ridges which could have had bikers thrown off. There are patches where the surace has completely broken down which I reported a year ago - no action probably because they are not 3 inches deep or whatever the threshold is. There are craters which are capable of causing tyre wheel and suspension damage. There are so many potholes in the southern half of the road that I couldn’t count them - with few signs of permanent repairs over the past 6 months or longer. Any short sections of resurfacing seem to miss the worst of the potholes! Temporary repairs are a waste of taxpayers money - they come out after a few days or weeks, spreading tarmac (my white paintwork is sprayed with particles of ashphalt - nice) which abrades the road causing more potholes to start. So - either Transerv underbid for the repair contract and have run out of money. Or they are not fulfilling their contract. I suspect the former but the SG are probably also to blame here. Rant over.

[fendertele]

Unfortunately I don't have the chance many times to stop and take pics, im a taxi driver and with someone in the car you gotta just plod on and get them dropped off, but I swear I spend a good chunk of my wages either getting the car aligned or finding faults with the suspension due to taking some deep ones.

I guess the don't hit them advice is true but driving at night.. sometimes using the old sat nav and having a car full of drunkards making noise and having to concentrate on the traffic and anyone randomly crossing gives less opportunity to be looking at the ground the whole journey, I mean I never hit any when off work as I know where im going off by heart so can take the time to look at the ground more but when following a nav at night... poorly lit roads and weather can make them hard to spot… then there are the ones that are unavoidable.. at the start of a street as you turn in, or no second lane to move over to avoid etc...

Just angers me the amount of massive roadworks going on right now and havin driven on those roads in the weeks leading up to the work and knowing they weren't in bad shape while there is a list of potholes still lying unfilled is nuts.

I guess when the surplus needs spent... it gets spent faster and easier tearing up a whole couple of miles on the M8 and refilling, than going around filling in tiny potholes.

[fendertele]

S2red said:

Have made a few successful ones but am being blanked by Scottish transerv for M8

They claim no faults on M8 through Glasgow could cause tyre damage!

there is one on the bridge before taking the airport exit on the inside lane, I'm not sure if its a pothole or just some sort of hole for a drain or whatever but its been there for as long as I can remember and if you catch it, its pretty meaty... pothole or whatever it is cant believe it's not been levelled out or filled.

[Olivera]

S2red said:

Have made a few successful ones but am being blanked by Scottish transerv for M8

They claim no faults on M8 through Glasgow could cause tyre damage!

Any section of the M8 through Glasgow in particular?

The cratered east bound on ramp at charing cross does my tits in everyday, a moon buggy would be more appropriate.

The inside lane of the M8 east bound just after this junction was a joke until very recently, fortunately they've fixed the worst of the holes.

The A725 EK section is also a state, as is the A726 southbound.

[fendertele]

my cars tyres follow the grooves on the road and that on ramp at charing x makes me grip the steering wheel like my life depends on it as it is all over the place going over those bumps.

[Humper]

I have reported the road into our estate numerous times, no action ever taken, apart from when they once came out and filled one pothole with some tar and jumped up and down on it, But ignored the other fifteen nearby*one within a couple of feet away). The M77 is starting to fall apart at various points, the slips at Fenwick are like a rally track.
But look at the positives.
They have resurfaced the hard shoulder between the Erskine Bridge and St James.............

[S2red]

Yes, Fendertele, those are the sections in question that cause my issues M8

Interestingly was down at Stranraer at weekend and guess who maintains the atrocious section north of Loch Ryan

Scotland Transerv

Edited by S2red on Sunday 31st March 22:39

[PaulD86]

Craigie said:

I work in Glasgow and do a lot of walking to build up my exercise regime.

I have the "My Council" app on my iphone. Anytime I see a pothole, broken sign etc etc, I report them.

Its simple.

The app uses the phone to find the exact location.
It uses your camera if you want to send a photo(s) with the report.
It has some multi choice questions and then a free writing box for further comments.
You then press send.
It then goes into your faults that you have reported and you get an email with a fault number.

I would say that on average, probably about 75% of the issues are repaired or at least patched within a fortnight.

I actively encourage everyone to download and use this app. No use bleating about this or that if you haven't actually reported it through the proper channels.

And yes, council budgets are being screwed, something has to give!

And this is great! This is what people should be doing. Not calling up to moan. It is nice to see that there are sensible and helpful people out there. We can all make each others lives easier.

[PaulD86]

Chamon_Lee said:

Sorry but over the years I have phoned up the attitude of the people I have spoke to (when you can get in touch) is piss poor. You report a pothole or ask when a repair will be done as its 4 month to 1 year still there and there answer is "it will be done when its done" well then your bound to get my back up. I never swear or shout as a matter of principle but I certainly don't sit there and take any rubbish they seem to actually think justifies the poor conditions. A simple is yes we totally agree and are working on it and the plan is for that sectiont to be done on such and such or I am sorry we dont know but we will get to it.

I fully understand your in the know ,I can't argue with that but at the same time you cannot dispute the experience I have had using the same roads for the last 20 years. Without a doubt in my mind the newer stuff is utter tosh. It is common sense temp changes and water ingress is shockingly bad for roads but we have always had those condition changes, nothing new. Some pothole repairs are disgusting and workers are to blame for that just like any trade there is good and bad people.

Funding seems to be the go to answer for all problems we have but I disagree - poor use of funds and poor workmanship is just as much to blame.
oh and keep the childish name calling to yourself

Edited by Chamon_Lee on Friday 29th March 15:51

The attitude of those who answer such phone calls is often a product of the attitude they are given. You've admitted you call them and "give them abuse". So if you expect the red carpet treatment after that then I'm not sure what planet you're living on. The person you call does not programme the order works are done in. And this is a much more dynamic affair than you may realise. For example, the squad that may go out and patch potholes may also be the same squad who attend when an RTA leave oil on the road, or a lamp post knocked over exposing live wires, or a burst water main flooding the streets. Safety defects are done by priority but some things will always move up the list. Accidents happen every day and whenever one does the people who go and sort out the problems left will then not be able to fill potholes for a while. So if people would stop crashing into street furniture that would be a big help.

The "newer stuff" may be utter tosh in your mind however that's why you're working in a profession that isn't roads related. Now without going into specific examples, have a think about this. The car you drive today and the car you drove 20 years ago. What has happened to the acceleration, braking and cornering performance in the last 20 years? What has happened to tyre technology? What has happened to the weight of cars in the last 20 years? Could it be that more stress than ever is being put on roads? As a clue, the answer is known to be yes. You believe, anecdotally, that the "newer stuff" is tosh but I think you have maybe failed to see the bigger picture, as many do. If you are very bored I can gladly point you in the direction of literature on the subject. It's a good cure for insomnia.

I completely agree on repairs being of various standards, and as you say, there are good an bad people doing them. As I say, however, an "ugly" repair can be a good one. I have photos on my desk of a repair that got complaints for its appearance - arm chair experts told us how it would be "out in no time" and we should "get back immediately and redo it". Seven years later it is still perfect. But I am definitely not saying all repairs are done well. They aren't.

Poor use of funds is an issue in all businesses. It can be worse in the public sector. There are some interesting reasons for this, some of which are counter-intuitive. For instance, such is the concern about wasting public money that there are such ridiculously stringent procurement rules in place that mean the cheapest suppliers can't be bothered to go for work as it is made so difficult. So by trying to save money, it costs more. There is a balance and it isn't right all the time.

Being told to keep childish name calling to myself by someone who posts on the internet that they give call centre staff abuse as they aren't happy with the state of the roads - that's a belter!

[PaulD86]

Humper said:

I have reported the road into our estate numerous times, no action ever taken, apart from when they once came out and filled one pothole with some tar and jumped up and down on it, But ignored the other fifteen nearby*one within a couple of feet away). The M77 is starting to fall apart at various points, the slips at Fenwick are like a rally track.
But look at the positives.
They have resurfaced the hard shoulder between the Erskine Bridge and St James.............

Trunk roads are not the responsibility of the council, the roads on your estate (probably) are. So both are managed by different authorities. I'm not saying something did or did not need done more, but many people aren't aware of this so thought it worth a mention.

Without seeing the potholes in question I can't comment much other than to say that it COULD be that only one of the potholes met the authorities definition of a "safety defect". I could write a book on this and it is a much debated topic in the industry. As a brief overview though, the argument is that if you have a stretched resource and they have 20 reported potholes, should they just do the reported ones or do they do the others at the same time - doing the surrounding ones at the same time obviously takes time so then others aren't done. But it also is an efficiency saving as "they are there anyway". But what happens if because they were filling holes as "they were there anyway" they don't get to a worse one and someone does a few grand of damage to their car on it and makes a successful claim. Then it would have been cheaper to just fix they worst ones. I'm trying to simplify a massively complicated and much debated topic but that may give some insight into the methodology being used. I've not read Glasgows policy to know so my comments are generic. And not doing the other ones may just be people being stupid. I'm just putting it out there that there MAY be another reason.

[Heidfirst]

Turns out that Scottish Water aren't too happy either with recent pavement & road repairs in East Renfrewshire ... Multiple stopcocks jammed with tar & road drain grids tarred in. Council notified & given time to remedy but ultimately remedied by SW themselves & billing ERC ... :P

[Humper]

PaulD86 said:

. As a brief overview though, the argument is that if you have a stretched resource and they have 20 reported potholes, should they just do the reported ones or do they do the others at the same time - doing the surrounding ones at the same time obviously takes time so then others aren't done. But it also is an efficiency saving as "they are there anyway". But what happens if because they were filling holes as "they were there anyway" they don't get to a worse one and someone does a few grand of damage to their car on it and makes a successful claim. Then it would have been cheaper to just fix they worst ones. I'm trying to simplify a massively complicated and much debated topic but that may give some insight into the methodology being used. I've not read Glasgows policy to know so my comments are generic. And not doing the other ones may just be people being stupid. I'm just putting it out there that there MAY be another reason.

I appreciate the limited resources, and if they were actually filling them properly I could understand, but as the "repair" generally consists of a couple of shovels of tar, then compressed with the back of said shovel, not exactly time consuming?