Any pilots on here?
Discussion
I wonder why this thread was moved from Boats, Planes and Trains to the Scotland forum? Wouldn’t Jobs & Employment be more suitable?
Anyway, as well as hearing success stories from the recently qualified, it’s also useful to temper one’s enthusiasm with what can happen when things don’t go so well on the job front.
ecsrobin mentioned timing. Under the old CAA system, I gained my CPL/Multi/IR, Performance A,E and MCC (inaccurately termed a ‘Frozen ATPL’) not long before 11 Sep 2001. So, in the scheme of things, I well know that timing can play a big part. I’ve never worked as a pilot, and pretty soon my written exam credits will expire. When that happens, the final nail will definitely be firmly in the coffin.
Ideally, if you want to be a pilot, someone else should be paying for it. i.e. Military training or an airline sponsorship scheme. Neither of which are freely available or easily attainable. I did a self-sponsored modular training and boy, do I wish I’d used my hard earned (and saved) cash more wisely.
Those that I know of from my modular courses, who succeeded in getting airline jobs, seemed to have bucket-loads of family money and family connections. Ability appeared to have little to do with it. Some of those who were really bad (multiple failures of the easy-peasy multiple choice ATPL exams) are now flying long-haul for major carriers. I aced mine first time. I had to. I couldn’t afford any re-sit fees!
I knew it would be tough for me to get a job on qualification, being the wrong side of 35 at the time and with no finances left for further training. However, I thought my military aircraft engineering apprenticeship and 15 years of hands on hands-on experience might swing it. Wrong! I’ve lost count of the number of blank stares and weak smiles I’ve received when telling pilots about my previous aircraft work experience. I’m convinced many pilots have absolutely no idea about engineering and maintenance.
I remember one of my fellow trainees being completely astounded when I told him I’d spent the weekend fixing my car! In his world, you have people who deal with that sort of thing. (He was one of the aforementioned multiple exam re-sitters, now flying B-777 for a Middle Eastern carrier, where his dad was a training captain).
I didn’t mean to rabbit on like this, so just a few more things to think about.
Pilot shortage. There’s about as much chance of a pilot shortage as Cheryl Tweedy-Cole-Fernandez-Versini being short of a date. It’s deemed an attractive, glamorous job to which so many aspire.
Pilot training schools. They will tell you exactly what they think you want to hear to get you signed up. They are run as businesses to attract customers and make money.
Consultants. The pilot training industry has many hangers-on, all wanting their slice of the pie. One of my big regrets is using the ‘services’ of an aviation training consultant. I’d been offered a slot on an Integrated Training Course at what I considered to be a reasonable price. He steered me away from it into less well regarded Modular Training. I told him I planned to do an Instructor Rating. He said I should spend the money (what little I had left) on an MCC (Multi-Crew Cooperation) course instead. They were both bad decisions, which I believe adversely affected my future prospects. I was told later that this Consultant received ‘back-handers’ from the various schools he recommended.
Anyway, I hope this has given you and your son something to think about. I did it, it didn’t work out and it took me a long time to get back on my feet financially. I no longer fly or work in aviation. Much of what I earned fixing aeroplanes was spent flying them. Something had to change!
Anyway, as well as hearing success stories from the recently qualified, it’s also useful to temper one’s enthusiasm with what can happen when things don’t go so well on the job front.
ecsrobin mentioned timing. Under the old CAA system, I gained my CPL/Multi/IR, Performance A,E and MCC (inaccurately termed a ‘Frozen ATPL’) not long before 11 Sep 2001. So, in the scheme of things, I well know that timing can play a big part. I’ve never worked as a pilot, and pretty soon my written exam credits will expire. When that happens, the final nail will definitely be firmly in the coffin.
Ideally, if you want to be a pilot, someone else should be paying for it. i.e. Military training or an airline sponsorship scheme. Neither of which are freely available or easily attainable. I did a self-sponsored modular training and boy, do I wish I’d used my hard earned (and saved) cash more wisely.
Those that I know of from my modular courses, who succeeded in getting airline jobs, seemed to have bucket-loads of family money and family connections. Ability appeared to have little to do with it. Some of those who were really bad (multiple failures of the easy-peasy multiple choice ATPL exams) are now flying long-haul for major carriers. I aced mine first time. I had to. I couldn’t afford any re-sit fees!
I knew it would be tough for me to get a job on qualification, being the wrong side of 35 at the time and with no finances left for further training. However, I thought my military aircraft engineering apprenticeship and 15 years of hands on hands-on experience might swing it. Wrong! I’ve lost count of the number of blank stares and weak smiles I’ve received when telling pilots about my previous aircraft work experience. I’m convinced many pilots have absolutely no idea about engineering and maintenance.
I remember one of my fellow trainees being completely astounded when I told him I’d spent the weekend fixing my car! In his world, you have people who deal with that sort of thing. (He was one of the aforementioned multiple exam re-sitters, now flying B-777 for a Middle Eastern carrier, where his dad was a training captain).
I didn’t mean to rabbit on like this, so just a few more things to think about.
Pilot shortage. There’s about as much chance of a pilot shortage as Cheryl Tweedy-Cole-Fernandez-Versini being short of a date. It’s deemed an attractive, glamorous job to which so many aspire.
Pilot training schools. They will tell you exactly what they think you want to hear to get you signed up. They are run as businesses to attract customers and make money.
Consultants. The pilot training industry has many hangers-on, all wanting their slice of the pie. One of my big regrets is using the ‘services’ of an aviation training consultant. I’d been offered a slot on an Integrated Training Course at what I considered to be a reasonable price. He steered me away from it into less well regarded Modular Training. I told him I planned to do an Instructor Rating. He said I should spend the money (what little I had left) on an MCC (Multi-Crew Cooperation) course instead. They were both bad decisions, which I believe adversely affected my future prospects. I was told later that this Consultant received ‘back-handers’ from the various schools he recommended.
Anyway, I hope this has given you and your son something to think about. I did it, it didn’t work out and it took me a long time to get back on my feet financially. I no longer fly or work in aviation. Much of what I earned fixing aeroplanes was spent flying them. Something had to change!
Moved back so I could get a "local" person to possibly chat to
But thanks fro interesting comments some my son has already sussed
He was in Dublin at exhibition at weekend and commented they are all just salesmen it's more what they don't say/tell you need to know rather than the sales talk you hear
But thanks fro interesting comments some my son has already sussed
He was in Dublin at exhibition at weekend and commented they are all just salesmen it's more what they don't say/tell you need to know rather than the sales talk you hear
Does your son have any flying experience? If not, get him an experience flight to see what he thinks. Cheapest route to a PPL is to do the NPPL aircraft licence, add an SSEA rating and then a further ten hours to convert to EASA PPL. He'll usually need a PPL prior to commercial training anyway.
I hear mixed reports of some who say it was the best thing they ever did. Others saying it was a huge mistake that has resulted in a lot of debt (training isn't cheap!) due to either a lack of work or poor wages. A lot seems to depend on luck and who you know, so no different from other industries.
There's talk of an upcoming pilot shortage, but this seems to be a never ending rumour!
PPRUNE could be a good forum to get involved with.
I hear mixed reports of some who say it was the best thing they ever did. Others saying it was a huge mistake that has resulted in a lot of debt (training isn't cheap!) due to either a lack of work or poor wages. A lot seems to depend on luck and who you know, so no different from other industries.
There's talk of an upcoming pilot shortage, but this seems to be a never ending rumour!
PPRUNE could be a good forum to get involved with.
Hi,
Not recently qualified but I did take the plunge many years ago. The industry, like others, is constantly changing, and often not for the better. Terms and conditions are generally being eroded and it's a big commitment financially with no guarantee on getting a job at the end of the training.
Would I get into it again if I could wind the clock back, probably not.
The advice I offer to my son who has shown an interest in becoming a pilot is to apply to the military.
Not recently qualified but I did take the plunge many years ago. The industry, like others, is constantly changing, and often not for the better. Terms and conditions are generally being eroded and it's a big commitment financially with no guarantee on getting a job at the end of the training.
Would I get into it again if I could wind the clock back, probably not.
The advice I offer to my son who has shown an interest in becoming a pilot is to apply to the military.
Crush said:
He'll usually need a PPL prior to commercial training anyway.
A PPL would form part of a modular training programme but it is possible to begin an integrated course with zero previous flying experience. This wouldn't be a good idea though. 10-15 hours would be preferable, to ensure he has a modicum of aptitude for and enjoyment of flying light aircraft.I saw a friend of mine that is a recently trained pilot over the weekend. He is an intelligent guy and finds it boring and wishes he hadn't done it now. He's flying 737s so it's not like he's done badly in terms of finding a job.
He took out a loan to pay for it so now he's stuck paying mortgage-sized payments every month to pay for the training for a job he doesn't want to do anymore. Given that I would say only go for it if you can get someone else to pay for it, ie military or an airline training programme.
He took out a loan to pay for it so now he's stuck paying mortgage-sized payments every month to pay for the training for a job he doesn't want to do anymore. Given that I would say only go for it if you can get someone else to pay for it, ie military or an airline training programme.
I started my commercial training late in life, and maintained my job security by working full time and studying the modular route.
Took three months unpaid leave to complete the flight training and then went back to work. This was in 2008.
In April 2008 I received all my licences and commenced sending out CV's WORLDWIDE I might add, with little hope of actually getting a job given the usual 250 hour CPL/IR freshly applied to the CV.
In August 2008 I received a job interview Invitation, I went and 2 weeks after that was offered a job on a wide body Airbus as FO.
I left a career job I had been in for 11 years and risked a lot to see if I could cope, literally! I'd never left my family behind and it was a huge deal
3 years later I moved to the 744 as senior FO and I write this from a hotel room in Narita, Tokyo having been with the company over 7 years now.
It's a fantastic job, there is a lot of sacrifice as I have a family and I'm away 12 days at a time but have 8 days off after each schedule.
I was lucky I had a good job and paid the bills as I went.
A lad on my course still hasn't got a full time job and had to buy his own 320 rating and still struggles to find work.
There is good and bad in every job, you have to find out what you like, what your willing to sacrifice and more than anything, where you will be happy.
No good being unhappy 6000 miles away from home, that's just not living
Took three months unpaid leave to complete the flight training and then went back to work. This was in 2008.
In April 2008 I received all my licences and commenced sending out CV's WORLDWIDE I might add, with little hope of actually getting a job given the usual 250 hour CPL/IR freshly applied to the CV.
In August 2008 I received a job interview Invitation, I went and 2 weeks after that was offered a job on a wide body Airbus as FO.
I left a career job I had been in for 11 years and risked a lot to see if I could cope, literally! I'd never left my family behind and it was a huge deal
3 years later I moved to the 744 as senior FO and I write this from a hotel room in Narita, Tokyo having been with the company over 7 years now.
It's a fantastic job, there is a lot of sacrifice as I have a family and I'm away 12 days at a time but have 8 days off after each schedule.
I was lucky I had a good job and paid the bills as I went.
A lad on my course still hasn't got a full time job and had to buy his own 320 rating and still struggles to find work.
There is good and bad in every job, you have to find out what you like, what your willing to sacrifice and more than anything, where you will be happy.
No good being unhappy 6000 miles away from home, that's just not living
LdnShtr said:
I saw a friend of mine that is a recently trained pilot over the weekend. He is an intelligent guy and finds it boring and wishes he hadn't done it now. He's flying 737s so it's not like he's done badly in terms of finding a job.
He took out a loan to pay for it so now he's stuck paying mortgage-sized payments every month to pay for the training for a job he doesn't want to do anymore. Given that I would say only go for it if you can get someone else to pay for it, ie military or an airline training programme.
I know a guy in a very similar situation. Only been doing it for maybe 6 years and enjoyed it at the start but has fallen out of love with it.He took out a loan to pay for it so now he's stuck paying mortgage-sized payments every month to pay for the training for a job he doesn't want to do anymore. Given that I would say only go for it if you can get someone else to pay for it, ie military or an airline training programme.
I know a girl who is super intelligent and left a great financial services job to become an airhostess. In between the change in job she completed her light aircraft licence over in Spain in 2 weeks. Think it cost her about 10k Euros.
It is so competitive to get on a training program. She often makes it to the final round and that is it. I am sure she will be a pilot someday but think it will not be easy.
A friend of mine is currently going through his training for Qatar airlines. It's been a tough journey to get there, but he's guaranteed a job on completion and that will contribute to paying back the training loan.
He has a blog, I imagine he'd be quite happy to talk if you got in touch.
http://theaviationdream.blogspot.co.uk/
He has a blog, I imagine he'd be quite happy to talk if you got in touch.
http://theaviationdream.blogspot.co.uk/
Interesting article here - http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/03/24/a... - about the pressures that new airline pilots can face, depending on how they choose to enter their career.
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